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Update: Since you have come that far, this late, I think I know what you are looking for. The photos are here!
I was looking at Al Arabiya website when I came across the story of 'Wafa Bin Laden'. A little search and found few articles about her. Anyway, here is the story from some news clips:
She walks down the street on the Upper East Side, thin and stylish. But no one's asking, "Who's That Girl?"
For, almost all her neighbours know who she is � despite the fact that she has added a twist to her family name. Her uncle is the world's most wanted. And she's probably one of the most unwanted.
Meet Wafa'a Bin Laden (or Wafah Binladin as she like to spell her name), niece of Osama bin Laden who wants to be an Arab version of Madonna. But a friend quoted in the New York Post said, "She wants to be a pop star but no record company will have her."
Wafah blames her infamous uncle � whom she has met just once � for ruining her legal and musical careers.
Pop Idol judge Simon Cowell said, "There's only one worse surname you could have to launch a pop career, and that's Hitler."
"At first, we all had sympathy for her and thought she was a nice girl with an unfortunate family connection. But she's this extremely spoilt wealthy girl," a friend said. "And the way she treats people. Now she is trying to make money by giving French lessons. But if you don't want her French lessons, she will hang up and scream, 'Bitch!"'
Wafa'a was born an American citizen while her father was studying in California. She grew up in Switzerland in a multimillion-dollar mansion. She studied law at Geneva University before going on to Columbia for a three-year doctorate.
In 2001, she lived in a $6,000-a-month loft on Spring Street, just ten blocks from WTC. Shopkeepers knew her as a big spender. A saleswoman at Bigdrop reported that she would spend thousands at a time on designer clothes. But in the months before the 9/11 attacks, she left for London.
Binladin is living on Park Avenue, and frequenting New York's poshest clubs and bars. Some city folk are outraged that she should be living a life of luxury so close to the hole in the ground where the twin towers once stood.
She has left her Muslim background behind and adapted herself to Western culture (with all what that means). She even changed the spelling of her last name to the more Western "Binladin".
�Because of this last name that I have nothing to do with, the western world hates me, and because I�ve chosen American values, the Saudi Arabian world hates me,� the singer lamented.
Her mother, Carmen Bin Ladin, lives in Geneva and has been separated for 15 years from her husband, Yeslam, the half-brother of the terrorist mastermind.
Yeslam Bin Ladin maintains that he has had no contact with Osama for years. He has been accused in a lawsuit filed by victims of the September 11 attacks of �providing material financial support to international terrorism� through his half-brother, but has vigorously rejected such allegations.
I don�t speak Arabic. I don�t have a Saudi passport. I play guitar, I write and sing music.�
Wafah is known as a party girl, who once danced with President George W Bush�s daughter Jenna at a nightclub in the south of France. (Wow, what a privilage!)
Carmen�s marriage to Yeslam disintegrated when he expected their children to be brought up conservatively. �My husband doesn�t even acknowledge his daughters when he sees them on the street,� she said.
According to Wafah, her mother fears �some fundamentalist will do away with me� because of her new career. She is currently working on an album and demo tape under the name Wafah Dufour (her mother�s maiden name) and describes her voice as �sort of Chrissie Hynde� � a reference to the vocalist with The Pretenders.
She added: �I am not a bimbo. I don�t want sympathy. I only ask that people try to understand.�
Cheep propaganda against Arab, their culture and values. I wont say religion or Islam, as I believe that's a personal choice, but all articles about this bitch are going around the Arab culture, freedom, terrorism, US dream, etc… To hell, do what you want. You are nothing more than a digit on the left!
{ 144 } Comments
Yeah. Whatever. She's just another no-talent Ameriskank.
Another Americanized no-talent woman. She should try porn, instead.
seriously cheap propoganda. I cant believe her mom actually wrote that book. Surely there are better ways to get famous. I am baffled as to how incredibly ugly she looks. her mom is reasonably ok looking and im sure her dad is. She is so ugly it hurts. God couldnt whoever published this article find another picture or maybe didnt on purpose LOL
Money can buy anything, so why can't she pay someone to write these articles/book and publish them. However, the name only is enough rich material for a cheap propaganda.
hey guys, you re being tough ..since when do we take at face value evthing journalists say? And frankly who would want to be in her position, must be tough for her. Anyway, read her mom's book – I did, it's really good and i dont think one can make any comment abt this girl before reading that book.
I thought we were all Americans here! Rich, poor, spoiled, bad last names etc. You know a lot of our "American" stars are quite rich and quite spoiled too. Still, they sit on pedastools so high they nearly reach God-dom. Who are all of you to judge this girl. Would you also attack the blind for not being able to see? I saw the girl on 20/20 last night. She is no different than the rest of us. She has a dream….let her be!
Americans are somewaht blind, they only see with one eye. They killed and keep killing millions all around the world but they keep crying for those 3000 killed in sep., 11. At lest Osama said the attak is a revenge for muslims killed by Americans but the American are saying they are killing people to make them free.
Ali, I am sorry to say this but maybe that's why Wafah wants to be in the States, because of what we believe in…
Ok just because she is the neice of bin laden does not make her a bad person… i kno it said her friend said that she's a "Bitch" but if it was really her friend then she wouldn't talk bad about her. what are ppl going to hate her because she's an ancestor of bin laden? she doesn't even speak to that family… not even her father! People are just going to target her because they're afraid that she's like her uncle… why judge someone because of their heritage? she can't help that! it's not like she placed herself into a family… she was born into it!!! so leave the poor girl alone and let her try to get famous
Lets see; in Wafa's interview with Barbara Walters she said " I've never meet him" meaning Osama. In the above article she said she meet him once. So, here is the problem: One, the bitch is a liar. Two, she can't sing for shit. Three, she has a big head and little body (reminding me of a bobble head doll) and would be better off in porn although, I can't imagine anyone from this country wanting to buy anything with her name on it.
Wafa, just like all of us, wants to be accepted for who she is and not judged for things outside of her control. Guilt by association or common last name is ridiculous. If you don't care for her music then nobody forces you to listen so just turn it off and go to some other form of entertainment you wish for. As for me, I appreciate her courage to stand up for who she is, what she believes, and what she aspires to accomplish for HER life. I think she is a beautiful, talented, intelligent, and articulate woman and I wish you the very best in all you do!
She should have changed her name before she started getting attention. It would have solved ALL her problems. Dumbass. She's doing this to get attention.
Ali says:"They killed and keep killing millions all around the world"
Who the heck are these millions that America has killed, anyway? As for the 20th century, 100 million souls died at the hands of the Soviet Communists, the Chinese Communists, the Nazis, the Arab Baathists, the Communist Khmer Rouge, the communist Sandinistas, etc. etc. Millions more were tortured by these same Orwellian regimes.
The United States has lifted more souls out of poverty in the last century than all any of the previously listed totalitarian nations. Its legal and commericial processes and institutions are the most transparent in the world. All world religions are practiced without fear of persecution and women sit on the Supreme Court, run the State Department and may soon be elected to the Presidency of the United States. I rest my case.
PS
As for Sabbah, she is a beauty and has an outstanding voice. I wish her good luck. Her family name is a heavier burden than you can imagine.
Only in America can a woman with the family surname of Bin Laden attempt to make it in show business. It demonstrates the greatness of the United States that tens of millions have come to its shores to reinvent themselves and to transcend the suffocating and stultifying expectations of their provincial antecedents. This capacity to reinvent and redefine is at the core of the essential vigor and greatness of this nation. Europe is dying in the detretus of moribund socialism, the Arab world is beginning to throw off the yoke of Islamo facism, China is a giant industrial zone and America is the last great hope.
"Americans are somewaht blind, they only see with one eye. They killed and keep killing millions all around"
This sounds like the stale propaganda of the Soviet KGB rehashed by a bunch of Euro socialists and ill educated Arab youth and spewed out by Lefty professors at Universities to be consumed by spoiled, rich white kids. Utter nonsense. Wake up before its to late, Ali.
but the American are saying they are killing people to make them free
Heh? Nonsense! According to al Jazeera, its former Nazi Baathists and an assortment of Usama bin Laden zombies, aided an abetted by that fascist in Damascus and the old men in Tehran, who are blowing themselves up and killing thousands of young Iraqi men, women, and children. They even go so far as to blow up Shiite Arab Mosques.
I think she has class, and she is drop dead beautiful. So her uncle is a satanist that doesnt make her one! People are intimidated by her beauty, i would take to ritz carolton!!
Martino cartier of CARTIERsalon and day spa…
she is amazing
I thought she was very attractive and had a very nice singing voice. But that do I know, I am also love the singing of of Kathie Lee Gifford and Marie Osmond.
Man, I don't think she'll make it as a singer, but if she ventures into porn or the nudie magazines – I'm there! She is one hottie I'd like to see a little more of!
Ms. Binladen takes a picture well!
The issues about Osama Bin-Laden should not reflect whole family viewpoints. And, with attempts to sound analytical, I feel there is something else on Osama Bin-Laden's mind, things that may open eyes of Amrican voters concerning the events across the world. It's too bad that he cannot or could not voice his views or needs of people around him without becoming a criminal suspect; which is all he may be.
What might he say about folks he knows right here in America?
She says of herself "I don’t speak Arabic. I don’t have a Saudi passport. I play guitar, I write and sing music.”"
Another self hating ignorant Arab. She needs to realise that she will always be an Arab, no amount of money or wishing will take that away from her. The bin Laden family is very rich. I found it interesting that this supposedly pious bin Laden family allowed one of their sons to marry a Shi'ite Iranian(Carmen) anyway. I suggest that this little girl hang out with the Shah supporting Iranian crowd in this country, she'll fit right in.
Abou sinan i cant beleive what you said
why are shi'ite not muslims?
I never said Shi'ites are not Muslims. The Bin Ladens are a well known Saudi(originally from Yemen) family. They are known for their piousness. In Saudi, amoungst such people, there is a certain level of disdain for Shi'ites, and yes, some would even say that Shi'ites are not Muslim at all, especially the hardline Wahabi/Salafee types. This is not the type of person that such a family would normally approve of for their son to marry.
Here in the USA the Iranian ex-pat community is not usually known for their religious nature.
Some of those Saudi's could be sick, really! Shi'ites are not Muslims! This is crap. Who do the Wahabi's and Salafi's think they are? I hope they don’t think that they are the sound of God on earth because I am not sure that they understand any of what God had revealed? Instead of having contests about memorizing the Quran I think they should have contest about understanding the Quran.
i know very well about the binladin family, in fact im a shi'ite girl engaged to one of wafa's cousins… i agree with you that some saudis do not approve of this matter but i can assure you that , so far, everything's fine
first..?????? ????? ????? ???? ???????
thats is the way tosay hellow in islam
i am saudi girl i dont no about wafa bin laden but after i watshed 20/20 at mbc4 i know here when i saw here at the tv i shoked how could she to be singer and how could she to wear like that drees first she is muslim i think and we are not like this girl i hate here and how could she to talk like that about women in s.a we are happy here we are happy to wear hegab because our religon telling us to wear it and in s.a we are not stuk we can go out we can travel with our mahram we can work and we can take our dission ..
so that what i want to tell every body
thanks
especially the hardline Wahabi/Salafee types
PLEASE ABU SINAN DONT TALK LIKE THIS. FIRST OF ALL THIR IS NO WAHABI.
IT'S SALAFEE AND THE SALAFES ARE RIGHT AND WOULD NOT SAY SHI'IAT
ARE NOT MUSLIM UNLES THAY (SHI'IAT) SAY SOMETHING WRONG ABOUT THE PELEAVERS OR A'ISHA EVEN FROM SONA THAY WILL BE THE SAME.
IS THAT CLEAR TO U …??? I HOP
I HOP SO & GOD FORGIF YOU
Wafa seems sooo brain washed in thinking the right is the way of the west. She has totaly lost her values and religion, which is realy sad. I know that it isn't right for us to judge her on her religion, but A muslim knows better then to reject Islam completely..she is one lost girl..she is soo into this wold and its fun. she has forgotten all about the here after..She claimed that her mom took her from Saudi arabia to rescue her from wearing the vail..she should know that it is not worn but only by women who choose to wear it and to me this is not a crime, one is allowed to wear what ever they please..who ever thinks that women are forced to wear it, well they are so wrong, you can ask any one who wears it , they will tell you. well i wish her a ll the best and may God help her and giude her.
Nano, you would be surprised how many Arabs and Muslims loose themselves wanting to think they are western. It will never work, they will never be accepted in that way, so why not retain their unique identity. Here in the USA you see it all of the time, Arabs and Muslims who think they are more "American" than the Americans.
If the veil is the only thing she was being "rescued" from in Saudi then that is a joke. Who is going to rescue this girl from America?
ok i am from kuwait and i saw 20/20 and i think that she can be whatever she wants but how dare her say all those awful things about arabs we are free and happy to be arabs and muslims
hi i'm a saudi and i'm currently living in saudi arabia..i think it's really annoying what this lost lost girl is doing..her mother surely ****ed with her mind .. first thing i hated hearing she was happy her mother took her away from that place..what the hell is wrong with her..why is trying to give this fake picture about her own origin..how low.. saying we have no choice or opinion?!! i can do whatever i like whenevr i want.. from little things like wanna go hang out with my friends in the malls or dining at restaurants or drinking coffee at starbucks.. ,to continueing masters my dad and husband are ready to support me..i chose my husband and my father went to another city he studied in to ask around about his morals.. my dad kept asking me afterwords if i was sure about him that i can cancel anytime i wish..this is not me only all of the women around me live similair lives..oh and somebody mentioned that book full of lies..i bought it from kuala lumpur and read it..she is showing us saudi women as faceless women ..how dare she..if she is annoyed at her husband's family she doesnt have to trash all saudi women..she talked about the saudi women 25 years ago as if they are the today saudi women..she wasn't fair..everbody knows saudi is a newlly developed country..she didn't care to say where the saudi women are today..dr.thuraya o. a saudi woman who now has an important position in the UN..thousands of saudi women in ksa and abroad making their way to whatever they dream..if a person doesn't know the place he comes from then a person will never find the place to go ..i feel sympathy for her..she is free to do what she wants but to erase ur origins and morals and even bad mouth it..that's just STUPID
To be resonable, i think she's beautiful and talented. she can be an American if she wants, thats her desision,but did she have to speak so offal about Saudi in a way that shows no loyalty at all she seems like the kind that finds it easy to betray.which means the Americans are disfourtunate with her on thier side. in fact as a Saudi girl, IM GLAD SHE"S OFF OUR SHOULDERS. And that thing about her father not giving them any money senice she was 18 is CRAP! where else did her mother get all that money. of course it had to do with the bin laden family. Poor Yelsen,she has a luxerous life because of his money yet she feels unfortunent too cary the binladen name.what about her granfather Mohammad bin laden who did a lot for the holy Mosque in Makkah, thats something to be proud of. but she wouldn't know the traitor she is.
first thing i have to say to wafa bin laden is you have to be proud for your self as an arabic girl and from your family name and beleive me wafa islam is the blessing for the humanity and all you need is to under stand the Quran and what it can lead you to the awakeness of your self and what your doing notice that the islam is the only religion that give women her proper rights with dignaty and freedome … but not that freedome when you can get your self negitive and responsible infront of alaah and make your self just drowning in sin .. and you dont have too see islam in anegitive way .. islam give the freedom to choose whether you want to wear hejab or not its up to you and you do what you want to do with some limits that you will notice it is the right way for you .. i mean wafa alaah gave you knowledg and beuty so you have to thank alaah for his givings … and beleive islam is your key to heaven and the the blessing from your only god.. alaah.. and you have to read the history of the islamic religion you will find that islam is the last message from alaah it was sent because all the sended religion was twisted in a way of wrong and bad and a lot of religion before islam faced this twisting in its true meaning and words so it was then alaah sent the message of islam to mohamed his profet and for humanity.. after that so many sended messages was send befor to a certain place as the folowers after the dieng of the profets like musis and jesus … twisted the sending messages for their desire.. that's when alaah sent is last and true message of islam to a defrent location to the arabs so the message can be sent all ovar the world without being twisted for the desire of the bad and sin so you reseive the message of islam with its truth and the words of alaah .. when judgment day comes every one will seek truth and heaven is for who follow the last true message of alaah..as for hell is for who denied the truth of islam and who filled his life with sin .. islam is reasonible because islam was the last message from alaah after the twisted messages.. so may alaah lead you all to truth that i hope you will seek .. and starting that by giving your self a chance to read and understand the holy quran in a right way and may heaven be your gouL
first of all i would like to appologise to all of my muslim brothers and sisters for having to see this disgracefull preformance by what i can say a really good actor.
my friends the american policy of ruining the image of islam is so complex that it takes years of study and closely tracing patterns in news reports and events that one can fully understad the genius of the american intelligence.
wafa bin laden is nothing but a puppet for the people behind the scenes who are constanatly working to convince the american people that the people in the middle east and the islamic world are suffering and in pain.
like the persian americans wafa bin laden is just an object used to undermine the islamic and eastern values.
also i would like to add who is osama bin laden ? isint he made by the cia to help the americans in the cold war ? wasnt he trained and funded by the cia ? also who is the baathists ? who is saddam hussien wasnt he also a very close friend to the USA ? wasnt he also funded and armed to kill iranians and shiites ? so these two terrorist are almost … you can say made by america! now we could say there are other so called terrorist that are not made by the US for example the fundamentalist iranian government, hamas and hezbolla. ok have these groups ever attacked the US or killed innocent americans on american land ? the answer is no ! then the only people who hurt america were the people who were made by america therefore america brought all this pain on its citizens because they cannot accept other peoples values and traditions and because they tried to change these values that have been beleived in for thousands of years .
in conclusion we accept and acknowledge western values and beliefs why cant they do the same for us and not interfere in everybodies lives.
Thank you.
I realize that the replies that i read are mainly peoply who are trying to defend their countries. "How dare she talks about the arabs that way" or "how dare she talks about saudies this way". But what they should be saying is "How dare she talks about MUSLIMS this way". Many of the replies also said that people should leave her alone and let her accomplish whatever it is she wants to acheive. Other people who are replying are not saying that she should'nt follow her dream, but what they are saying is "follow your dream but leave us muslims and arabs out of the equation". She probably thinks that by bad mouthing the muslims and arabs, she will be better liked by Westerners, and ALLAH knows best.
I dont know wafa, and its not my place to condemn her. Having said that, hearing what she said during the interview made me realize that she is completely brain washed and has turned her back against her people and fore most, her religion. She has portrayed a picture of the Arab world and particularly Saudi Arabia as a prison. Her mother had to break her out of this prison and set her free. I am not a saudi(muslim/american) but i have lived my entire life here, and absolutly no one is forced to wear or do anything he/she does not want to do. Infact, I myself abandoned the hijab for a while. As a matter of fact in Saudi Arabia you have more choice than in the West, and it was of my own desire and choice to wear the hijab again. This is because in K.S.A people won't condemn a person for being different. As for in the West, if a person wears a hijab, she would be laughed at, made fun of or her non-muslim friends and relatives would feel offended. And i speak from personal experience. If wafa wants to become a singer or anything else, She is a grown-up and and knows what is right and wrong in Islam and whatever she does is between her and Allah. We have no right to judge her in that aspect. But when she talks about muslims and Islam as people who should be pitied or a religion that imprisons people, she affects us as muslims. Is it not bad enough that the media portrays Islam in a terrible way? That's all the media needs now, another arab/muslim to put us down.
Its people like this that give muslims a bad name. And i keep wondering why my grandmother wont embrace Islam. and why should she when all she sees is people trying to run away from Islam and talking about it like its a prison and those who live by its rules are to be pitied coz they wear a veil. Islam is a beautiful and fair religion. Do you think when my father converted to Islam, he automatically embraced Islam. NO he didnt. He travelled and explored different countries and religions untill he found what he had been looking for his whole life..the truth. if ever a person really wants to know the truth, look for it. if you take one step towards Allah, Allah will take a hundered steps towards you. But dont turn away from the truth because of what the media tells you or a few rotten apples. Explore and only then can you judge for yourself.
I'm a female from Iran. It is bravo of her to stand on her own feet although she is aware that 50% of people from the middle east hate her for what she is doing in U.S.A and 50% of western people hate her for just her last name. I admire her for not being afraid to show who she is. Some saudis think Wafa criticizes Saudi country and people, but what I know is that Wafa and her mother have a right to share with others about their experiences and to show how they went through. What all they say bad things about Saudi country does not always mean all saudi men are oppressed or Saudi country is bad. It is just okay for them to disclose whatever they need to. One thing I like about her is her strong personality and it is very good not to care what others think of her for good or for bad. I dont think it is easy for somebody NOT TO CARE what others think of him or her and it is really challenging.
Wafa is all too typical here in the USA though. I remember my wife, a Saudi, meeting a Jordanian at a mosque here in the USA. She told my wife "you are the first Saudi woman I have ever heard of going to a mosque in the USA." This is sad but true, they usually come here, take off the niqab, and slip into some tight fitting outfit and hit the malls. Their religion isnt on their mind, they want to get as far away from it as possible. I have seen this time and time again. It is also common for Arabs to come to the USA and completely downplay their culture, their religion, you name it. They have to be "more American than the Americans." Drinking, sleeping around, doing all sorts of haraam.
The fact that she is 1/2 Iranian only makes it worse. The Iranian community here in the USA is Muslim and Iranian in name only. There is a HUGE Iranian community where I live and I have met dozens of them. I have yet to meet one religious Iranian, although I have met dozens wearing gold chains, married to Americans and Christians, including their women. They drink, they date and sleep around and it isnt a big deal, it isnt a family shame. The Iranian community in the USA is completely integrated with American culture and everything that comes with it.
Abu Sinan, your explantions showed me you may not acknowledge about Iranian history at all. Muslim was not Iran's first religion. In old time, Iran had its own religion named Zartosht [in Farsi name, but I dont know in English name] Zartosht and pure Persian culture is utterly different than Muslim and Arabian culture. After the attack of Saudi Arabia, Iran was turned into Muslim culture. Now Persian people are confused by the new culture and religion that Saudi Arabia had carried to Iran. Iran is very mixed with two religions between Zartosht and Muslim during Islamic time. For example, Persians still carry their Persian tradition such as getting celebrated for new Persian year on 21th March. This tradition is Zartosht, but in contrast, they still somehow think they are Muslim since they are living in Iran during the time of Islamic. You see how confusing and complex Iran is. This answer is as to why you have never met a authentic Muslim Persian. If you want to meet a pure religious person, it would be from anywhere in Arabian countries. My explantion may not be clear enough. My recommantion: read a book named,Persepolis: The Story of a Childhood and then you will understand why Persian people are utterly different than Arabian people. You may think Persian people are considered more American than American. It is not true because Persian people who live in Iran are westerinized, and even no matter which country they live in, anyway. What is the point then? Persia has its own values and cultures same as Saudia Arabia that it has its own values as well. Please don't judge Persians with your own mind only. I do not judge on Arabian people and others as well since I respect different religions and Buddahist (even it is not considered religion), in order not to judge them and critisize them and show them how well acknowledged I'm in my best way. Thank you
The religion is called "Zorastorian" and I am well aware of it. That has little to nothing to do with modern Iranians, who have been Muslim for hundreds and hundreds of years, failing to follow their religion when they go abroad. As to "the attack of Saudi Arabia", I hate to tell you think but Saudi Arabia is only a relatively new country, so it could have hardly attacked pre-Islamic Iran, as it didnt exist. Current Iranians are not "confused" by the religion they have held for hundreds of years and have made a distinct version of their own. The fact remains that the Iranian community abroad holds to no religion, not Islam, not Zorastorianism. Yes, they light fires on Persian New Year, this doesnt mean they drink Bulls Urine, as commanded in Zorasatorianism, nor do they believe, like Zorastors do, that women on their menses will kill growing things and make others sterile. You confuse the persian and arab identity with religion. 85% of all Muslims are not Arabs, it doesnt make them less Muslim. My point is, and remains, that the Iranian community abroad, especially here in the USA, hols NO religion, of any sort, and does not hold unto its culture. The overwhelming drive is to drop ALL Iranian culture and ALL religion, except the most superficial vestiges, and that only because of racial and ethnic pride. In this way Wafa bin Laden fits in VERY well with the American Iranian culture.
Yassi, if you mean by Saudi attack, the Islam invasion, then you are talking about more 1400 ago, which is the age of the Islam in the Arabian gulf as will in Iran.
Therefore, there is no difference with regards to age. It's a matter of culture. I believe Iranians were always more open, even attached to western valuves. Look at 'Shah' age, Tehran was a piece of the west with all what comes with it. Nightclubs, drugs, prostitution, you name it…
Iran revolution awakened the people to their origin, Islam origin. wither we like it or not, it came back on the hands of very conservative people like Khomeini. This, in my opinion made a big shock in the street. from very open society to a very conservative one. Two extremes, making guaranteed failure.
Therefore, those Iranians living not only in the west, but even here in the Middle East are far from Islam. They carry nearly nothing from it except the name.
As an American whos family has been here for over a century I was wondering if the majority of people from the middle east, primarily those of muslim faith, disliked Americans. From some of the things I have read this is what it seems like. To be perfectly honest there are a lot of Americans that are ignorant about arab culture but there are also a lot of people that are interested in knowing about it and usually love the people they meet from the middle east. So why the hate toward westerners? Simply becasue our government made a decision that most disprove of or because the media makes the western culture appear to be so liberal and immoral? I dont understand fill me in.
Good question Maritza.
Here is an internal link to a post that did not catch enough attention when I posted it sometime back in April. I believe it should give you some answers.
Now here it is:
http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2005/04/22/the-real-reason-they-hate-us/
So it is our government. Do people understand that what our government does is out of the public's control once a leader is chosen? I guess the same could be stated from an Iraqui citizen. Its a fight between governments and leaders and its unfortunate that some people of these societies (American & Arab) cannot see that. thanks.
I am an american who has lived here with my family for along time. I know alot of Saudies, infact all my friends are arabs. And we have have disscused politics from time to time and one thing i realized is that arabs or at least the majority of arabs do not hate the american people but they do despise the government. and why shouldnt they? If someone came and bomed your country wouldnt you hate them. Americans have killed thousands of people during wars which was supposed to "free" them. you cant blame the arabs for hating america. to believe wat the media says is just stupid but america has done more than that. they gave arabs reason enough to hate them. the same thing with Osama Bin Ladin. westerners hate him because he killed many people but the difference is that he wasnt supported by the arab governmet. he acted alone.
Before Revolution time, Iran was what it was supposed to be as a pure Persia. When it came to Revolution, all Persian people were forced to follow Islam. From that, people were not appreciated with the force of new Iranian government, because number one, Islam was not Iran's first religion, number two, Iran did not give people choices. People rathered to follow their own tradition as same as Saudi Arabia that they still carry their own tradition, but Iranian people had no choice to follow Islam. In my opinion, It is not good idea to force people to get into Islam or any religions else. The word of 'force' is too out of the question!!! Especially for Iranian women, they all have been forced to wear long coats and scarves unlike some people in Saudia Arabia that they do not wear scarf even their country is into Islam. That is how Iranian people turned off and their brains have changed to dislike 'Islam' as they thought 'Islam' is what it is supposed to be on this world, but in fact, 'Islam' is not what all or some Persian think it is because of Iranian bad history and that was how it came up with their brains to dislike Islam. Also, If Persian wants to be a pure Muslim, he or she should search about Muslim worlds in any Arabian countries to learn himself. Iran is wrong example to explore people about pure and authentic 'Islam' because Iran is not as freedom as Arabia Saudia. People in any Arabian countries are not forced to get into 'Islam' They have choices to choose which one religion they are comfortable with. Many years During revolution time in Iran, Iranian people had been thirsty and been far from freedom and from that they got tired of being in prision, and in the result they got back to copy Western people all along way all in once impactly and EVEN worser than before revolution time. It is the same way for when you are hungry and dont eat for 24 hours, and in the result, you will put RICH AND HUGE food into your mouth all in once wich is unhealth. People in Iran during revolution time was not as freedom as Saudia Arabia. Saudia Arabia gives people choices to choose whatever they want to and that is how Arabian people do not have hard time with 'Islam' In my personal opinion, if somebody really wants to know about culture and religion, he should go to a country where it belongs to what he wants to learn about. You cannot just look what all Persian behave in U.S.A or in any countries else to label them. I don't label Arabian people since I did not visit Saudi Arabia because Islam in Iran is very different than Islam in Arabian countries. It is same for you that you have no right to judge Iranians since you are NOT in Iran. When you are in Iran, you will notice something wrong with fake Islam in Iran because you may be a authentic Muslim from Arabian country.
Haitham, "Iran revolution awakened the people to their origin, Islam origin."
Islam is not Iran's origin. Iran's origin is Zartosht and if Iran's first origin is Islam, it would have been from Saudia Arabia that it influeced Iran to get into Islam. The time of between before revolution and after the influenced Iran from Saudia Arabia, there were people in Iran with their choices. Some become Muslim and some kept their own religion; however After revolution, They all were forced into 'islam' which was it was not supposed to happen. You said, "Nightclubs, drugs, prostitution, you name it…" Quran says that judging and leballing others is forbidden and is considered Harram. Being Muslim is different than being narrow minded person. I have some pure and wonderful Muslim friends and they do not talk like that. I believe there are two kinds of Msulim-minded people. One: open minded Muslim and two: narrow minded Muslim. Since, I'm not authentic Muslim, I can tell that some Arabian men in U.S.A are the most hypocrited men I have ever seen. They keep critisizing Western ways while they are enjoying in the U.S.A as if they had never been tasted what Western countries are like.. It is utterly Harram.
hi first of all i wanna say that the binladins are good people because they made a lot of project in saudi arabia roads, hospitals, companies, huge buildings,etc…. but people looking to osama only now arab looking to wafa because of her family name yes! i agree with some people wafa doesn't know any thing about islam she wanna be …… you know we should ignore her but don't let her saying bad thing about our saudi sisters or bad things about islam
Hey, you bastard have no right to call PERSIAN GULF like that, there is no Arabian Gulf in whole universe. Pay more attention next time.
Before Revolution time, Iran was what it was supposed to be as a pure Persia.
Which revolution you are talking about now? Khomeini revolution or the spread of Islam 1400 years ago?
When it came to Revolution, all Persian people were forced to follow Islam. From that, people were not appreciated with the force of new Iranian government, because number one, Islam was not Iran’s first religion,
Neither it was the religion of Muslims before they became Muslims.
number two, Iran did not give people choices. People rathered to follow their own tradition as same as Saudi Arabia that they still carry their own tradition, but Iranian people had no choice to follow Islam.
8-|
No choice? You can force one, two, or even a thousand. But how can you force millions?!
In my opinion, It is not good idea to force people to get into Islam or any religions else. The word of ‘force’ is too out of the question!!! Especially for Iranian women, they all have been forced to wear long coats and scarves unlike some people in Saudia Arabia that they do not wear scarf even their country is into Islam.
Now I'm more confused. Which revolution you are talking about? I guess you mean Khomeini. In that case, I agree with you. It is wrong to force anyone to do anything. BUT, it's not wise to let people do all what they want under the cover of freedom, specially that these people live in a Muslim country.
That is how Iranian people turned off and their brains have changed to dislike ‘Islam’ as they thought ‘Islam’ is what it is supposed to be on this world, but in fact, ‘Islam’ is not what all or some Persian think it is because of Iranian bad history and that was how it came up with their brains to dislike Islam. Also, If Persian wants to be a pure Muslim, he or she should search about Muslim worlds in any Arabian countries to learn himself. Iran is wrong example to explore people about pure and authentic ‘Islam’ because Iran is not as freedom as Arabia Saudia.
hmmm… are you sure? Sorry Yassi, I'm losing track of what you mean.
People in any Arabian countries are not forced to get into ‘Islam’ They have choices to choose which one religion they are comfortable with.
So is Iran. Iran is a Muslim country since 1400 years. What makes it different now?
Many years During revolution time in Iran, Iranian people had been thirsty and been far from freedom and from that they got tired of being in prision, and in the result they got back to copy Western people all along way all in once impactly and EVEN worser than before revolution time. It is the same way for when you are hungry and dont eat for 24 hours, and in the result, you will put RICH AND HUGE food into your mouth all in once wich is unhealth.
I don't agree with you here. Who is more poor, Iran or Pakistan? I don't see Pakistanis going back to their Hindu or other religions. They are poor people put still holding on their Islam!
People in Iran during revolution time was not as freedom as Saudia Arabia. Saudia Arabia gives people choices to choose whatever they want to and that is how Arabian people do not have hard time with ‘Islam’ In my personal opinion,
Freedom of choice in Arab country? Are you kidding me? I think you need to read more about the history of the region.
if somebody really wants to know about culture and religion, he should go to a country where it belongs to what he wants to learn about. You cannot just look what all Persian behave in U.S.A or in any countries else to label them.
Why not? We are not labeling a nation. We are labeling a group of people who clearly are not a good follower to what they are.
I don’t label Arabian people since I did not visit Saudi Arabia because Islam in Iran is very different than Islam in Arabian countries.
Different? How different? Islam is same everywhere. It just depends if someone follow it or not. It's not a matter of who follow, but how you follow!
It is same for you that you have no right to judge Iranians since you are NOT in Iran. When you are in Iran, you will notice something wrong with fake Islam in Iran because you may be a authentic Muslim from Arabian country.
Everyone keeps on saying "you don't have the right to judge…." Ok, who has the right and why?
I believe everyone has the right to criticize the wrong. Wither other like it or not, that is different thing!
Haitham, “Iran revolution awakened the people to their origin, Islam origin.”
Islam is not Iran’s origin. Iran’s origin is Zartosht and if Iran’s first origin is Islam, it would have been from Saudia Arabia that it influeced Iran to get into Islam.
Are you denying that Islam in Iran goes back to 1400 years ago?! That's what I mean by origin. Before 1400, they were what they were. But since Islam became the religion of that country, no one can deny that anymore.
The time of between before revolution and after the influenced Iran from Saudia Arabia, there were people in Iran with their choices. Some become Muslim and some kept their own religion; however After revolution, They all were forced into ‘islam’ which was it was not supposed to happen.
Forced? How many? Can you prove that? It's not a challenge, I believe what you are saying, with reservation. How many are you talking about? and what was the country religions in percentages (Islam and other) before and after the revolution?
You said, “Nightclubs, drugs, prostitution, you name it…” Quran says that judging and leballing others is forbidden and is considered Harram. Being Muslim is different than being narrow minded person. I have some pure and wonderful Muslim friends and they do not talk like that. I believe there are two kinds of Msulim-minded people. One: open minded Muslim and two: narrow minded Muslim.
I'm very open minded. In fact some time back some people criticized me because I a;ways talk the pros and cons about Islam. However, can anyone deny the fact that Iran was very spoiled and all what I mentioned were there? What is wrong in saying that? I'm not labeling anyone. Just stating facts that existed during the period of Shah Iran.
Since, I’m not authentic Muslim, I can tell that some Arabian men in U.S.A are the most hypocrited men I have ever seen. They keep critisizing Western ways while they are enjoying in the U.S.A as if they had never been tasted what Western countries are like.. It is utterly Harram.
Harram? Anyway, I'm not living in the west, I never did, and don't think I will ever do. I lived all my life in the heart of Arab world, and will take the consequences to criticize what should be criticized in my opinion.
Mohammad Says: Hey, you bastard have no right to call PERSIAN GULF like that, there is no Arabian Gulf in whole universe. Pay more attention next time.
Ohh…you scared me man.
I don't normally allow such comments to appear in my blog. But just to show how sick some people can be, I'll keep it.
And here you go:
ARABIAN GULF ARABIAN GULF ARABIAN GULF ARABIAN GULF ARABIAN GULF ARABIAN GULF ARABIAN GULF ARABIAN GULF ARABIAN GULF ARABIAN GULF ARABIAN GULF ARABIAN GULF ARABIAN GULF ARABIAN GULF ARABIAN GULF ARABIAN GULF ARABIAN GULF ARABIAN GULF ARABIAN GULF ARABIAN GULF ARABIAN GULF ARABIAN GULF ARABIAN GULF ARABIAN GULF ARABIAN GULF ARABIAN GULF ARABIAN GULF…
You have a problem with that? Go to hell!
Haitham,
Before my response to you, I agree with Mohammed that Arabian Gulf never have never exist!!
you know .. i couldn't belive my eyes when i saw B.Walters interviewing such a **** like wafa in 20/20 ..
some ppl are so cheeeeeeeeeeeeep …
20/20 & Mrs. Walters **cked up big time ..
?????? ????? ????? ???? ???????..
i think wafa bin ladin is a shame for muslmr for arabs for k.s.a
if she feel shame from her family first she have to shame from here self i knew bin ladin family they are a good family and the do a lot of project for k.s.a and for meny country….
and here cosin osama ben laden he is of a great man and breave man he is fight the enemy of islam and he leave all his money to gehad to make the word of allah high
thanks for every body and we have to make doaa to giude her to the right way for islam
wafa bin laden i invite you to visit makkah and al madinah to perform hajj maybe you can find the correct way to giude your self ……..
wafaa yousef gh …… 16years old…
do you think you 100% have a right to control over her? Dont make yourself look dumb on this homepage otherwise the world will see how idiot you are.
Haitham,
You said, "…. will take the consequences to criticize what should be criticized."
It is ok to criticize what should be criticized, but nobody knows to criticize what should be criticized. If you think what you say is right in your best way with your the most perfect brain, you damn will never never have no idea how the world can get peace. Be human up just like us with things we all make mistakes! If you want everyone including me to criticize what should be criticized? Allright, no problem. Here is go:
Accroding to news, some stolen girls from Iran and Russia and China are sent to Saudi Arabia and they are forced to play porn with the private Saudi Arabi men. There is one huge private trade with girls's bodies for money in Saudi Arabi. When their plays are done, these girls will get killed!
I hope you appreciate my criticizing to a group of people who clearly are not a good follower to what they are. If you dont appreciate, then dont ever talk like that," Nightclubs, drugs, prostitution, you name it…" You like to criticize Iranians just because 1/2 Iranian blood is into Wafa's blood.
Yassi,
Arabian Gulf never have never exist
I can see it on the map. My map. It's up to you to see it and call it what you want, but from Arab point of view, it is Arabian Gulf, and I have no reason but to call it so.
do you think you 100% have a right to control over her? Dont make yourself look dumb on this homepage otherwise the world will see how idiot you are.
Me? Yes, this is my blog and I have the control. I hope that don't bother you!
but nobody knows to criticize what should be criticized
Oh, read the newspaper, watch the TV, browse the Internet, whatever… You will always find something that please you and something that annoy you.
If you think what you say is right in your best way with your the most perfect brain, you damn will never never have no idea how the world can get peace. Be human up just like us with things we all make mistakes! If you want everyone including me to criticize what should be criticized? Allright, no problem.
Some people need to grow up and learn how to debate. You know, it's an art. Personal attacks are my last priority. Therefore, if you just continue to post comments of this sort, I'll just ignore them. They are waste of time.
See above, I left you hundred question, you answered none out of them. Instead you turned this to a personal attack.
Here is go: Accroding to news, some stolen girls from Iran and Russia and China are sent to Saudi Arabia and they are forced to play porn with the private Saudi Arabi men. There is one huge private trade with girls’s bodies for money in Saudi Arabi. When their plays are done, these girls will get killed!
I hope you appreciate my criticizing to a group of people who clearly are not a good follower to what they are. If you dont appreciate, then dont ever talk like that,” Nightclubs, drugs, prostitution, you name it…” You like to criticize Iranians just because 1/2 Iranian blood is into Wafa’s blood.
So, what's your point? And where is your reference. I'm not doubting your story, but to have some credibility you need some references.
On the other hand, who said that the Arab world is perfect. This blog is full of bad news such as the one you are telling.
Anyway…
Good responses Haitham. Just because a few Iranians jump over fires every year doesnt mean that they are, as a nation, turning back to their pre-Islamic roots. Germans have a cultural tradition of jumping over fires every year as well, doesnt mean they are going to put on helmets and start raiding the rest of Europe now in the name of Wodan.
The "original" religion of Iran forced people to drink bulls urine to "become pure" and said that women on their period were so evil they could kill plants, make seeds infertile, and permenately tarnish a pious man. Better these beliefs are gone forever.
"Some people need to grow up and learn how to debate. You know, it’s an art." Then why did one of these said "Nightclubs, drugs, prostitution, you name it…" Should not I have a right to tell something back as I thought it was just debate? I dont understand why abu sina said bad things about Iran in the first place since even only even 1/3 Iranian blood is into Wafa's blood?!! I got an idea of how terrible this person to jump over to criticizie the huge of Iranian community as he believes he has a right to criticize what should be criticized. I'm sorry for these who will never have any ideas of how the world can get peace. Although I told something bad back about Saudi Arabia, I'm still not against it and I have some good Arabian friends. What I believe is somebody should not protect his or her country too much, nor neglects it too much. The everage is wise since he or she thinks of others from smallest community to greatest community. It is bad idea to hide negative things in his country and show white spots in his country instead to the world. It is selfish and willness.
abu sina, " drinking bull urine" If you talked about it, it is in India, not Iran.
Hitahim, I did not say you are idiot, I said to another person. I could not answer your questions since my explantion was not clear enough and also some of ur questions were too far from true. I realized I'm wrong person to post on it becuz this blog is more for Arabians. From now on, I let them to tell whatever they want to tell although there are some untrue information toward Iran and I'm sorry.
Yassi,
Comments are welcome from everyone (including you) as far as they are objective and do not include vulgar words or personal attacks.
When I say ‘Nightclubs, drugs, prostitution…’ and Abu Sinan say ‘drinking bull urine…’, it’s part of the context and is not meant as calling anyone names. It’s just a way of drawing a picture of the history, which did exist as I said before.
On the other hand, the world can not ‘get in peace’ as you say if everyone just keeps quite and says nothing. There are always the bad and the good, and this is the nature of things. There is black and white, and a lot more colors in between. Unfortunately we can’t just live and claim that all people are angels, it’s a very dynamic world and “the only constant in life is change.”
I wish with all my heart that the world can live with inclusion, forgiveness, tolerance, peace and – most importantly – love, as Jesus said. These same principals which Islam is also carrying, but that’s just a wish. You see!
Yasi needs to learn about the religion he has talked about here. Drinking bulls urine is indeed part of the religion that he says is the original "Iranian" religion.
Here is a quote from a well known site on the religion, run by Iranians:
"It is a very ancient and long-cherished custom of Iran to sip in three gulps the consecrated bull's urine (Nirang) for the purpose of inner and outer purification. "
http://tenets.zoroastrianism.com/relnook1.html
You need to learn more about what you are advocating and talking about before you get upset about it. There is no "untrue information toward Iran" being given here. It would just seem that some of us non Iranians are more familiar with Iranian history than are some Iranians.
As to my comments about the Iranian community here in the USA, I stand by them 100%! They, as a group, do not practice Islam in any way and have been completely co-opted by this society. They celebrate Christmas, they drink, they have completely forget where they came from and what their religion is, and are now more American than the Americans.
I have been visiting your blog for a while… and find it very strange for a bunch of Arab Nationalists talking about Islam…. very ironic indeed….
I'm not more familiar about Iran not because none iranians are more familiar than Iranians about Iran history. It is invidual. " They celebrate Christmas, they drink, they have completely forget where they came from and what their religion is, and are now more American than the Americans." The word of 'forgot' is obviously wrong. They decide what they do. Most Iranians I know dont like idea of Islam and that is ok with it lik Wafa Bin laden that she has to decide what she wants to do or to be, not always mean they love to be under huge of freedom, nor means they like to stick into religions. Disliking any religions, does not always mean they just FORGET their old ways or their religions. Even Iranians in Iran dont not stick any religions like China and some Asian countries. Their actions show that they already make DECISION on what they want to do or to be, not just because they forget! You know Iranians like others that they are not too dumb to just FORGET, eh?! People from various countries who live in USA or any countries where they want to live for good, like to adapt to their new culture in their new properity, not Iranians do that only. I'm in Canada and I mostly dislike American ways. I keep some of friendly Canadian ways.
Some Iranians celebrate Christmas to show respect to others that they get involved in any events from any countries and to show they are not against it. Although I'm not Christian, I go to church and show my huge respect to others, not means I'm convinced to be Christian!! I beileve some people should learn how to judge and analyze appropriately without believing what they just see or hear.
You suggest me to learn what I advocodate about before I get upset. My suggestion to you: you need to analyze appropriately. I see some negatives and positives in Arabian countries, but I rather to pick their white spotes instead of black ones!
Hello to all my arab brothers and sisters.
My name is Zena and im lebanese, i watched wafa bin laden's interview and i was very very very disapointed. I thought that at least she was going to say she is muslim but wants to sing . She totally did the opposite. 3aib ya Wafah! Since when is Saudi Arabia a "Prison" ?????? Your mother "freed" you when she took you away??????? Beleive me, she put you in a bigger prison. Ya 3aib eshoum. Thats not the arab's picture. We, arabs, are free, respectful and very happy. I also want to invite you for a 3omra with me , maybe it will clear your spirit from all the sins.
Whoa…you guys have started a fight in this blog. Its quite interesting. Im not an arab but I can say I do like the arab community. I am South Asian and I am a muslim, and as a muslim I am impressed by how many people are standing up for their religion. I was shocked aswell when I saw Waffa's interview and that she wanted to become a singer so she can fit in with the western society. I believe that she needs to get a life besides singing. Singing will carry you nowhere. She should spend her time doing something else where she wont be harrased because of her name or anything else. I mean, who is gonna listen to her albums. I probably would to see how good she is but no one else is going to because of her name. Well this is it…oh yea..Dont mind anything I said. Dont write no crap about me. Well, Peace Out.
I saw her on TV last night and thought she was so pretty and she has such a beautiful, unique, and remarkable voice.
She is her own person, and I think we should all wish her the best. She only wants to have a happy life. Don't we all?
It's really a shame that people shun her and ruin her legal and musical careers. I can imagine how hard her career must be because of her name. I merely physically resemble her uncle, and I was called "Osama" when I worked for J.B. Hunt Transport in care of GAP clothing and a WANTED poster was on the wall and I was discriminated against. I'm putting up a website soon called http://www.corporatebigotry.com detailing the bigotry that myself, a Palestinian driver who management called "camel jockey," and others faced. If J.B. Hunt or GAP pursue litigation, I would love to have this intelligent lady as my attorney.
Guysss…
If someone dont know about Islam and if they are criticizing about Islam, never face it. Please…Please never take her commnets into account to discuss, leave it..and leave her.
in addition to that the BIN LADENs are shame to muslims as well as ISLAM. One side its extremism and other side is totally OUT OF ISLAM, which cannot be justfied by ISLAM. Dear 'Ummah' com'on please start ignore them.
????? ??? ????? ?????…
May Allah subhanahu wa ta3alla guide everyone to the truth.amen
I completely support hussein. and i think you should stop all this in fighting and unite as a muslim community to move forward instead of backwards.and
regarding this case REMEMBER ALL OF THIS IS PROPAGANDA!!!
BULLSHIT
This girl is a disgrace to all Muslims.I'm not saying that coz she is wearing this or that u see this is her personal choice.But to talk about Islam and respected muslim people like this that is shame on her big time.She knows nothing about anything repectefull all she knows is singing and fashion so she should stick to that and believe me the muslim world and people will be much beter without sikkos like u.
hey all, i watched the big idea with donnie deutschlast night and i must say,being a native new yorker,present when 9/11 happened, you can not judge her on something her distant uncle did. She was raised AMERICAN with our values and the same dreams that many of us are trying to reach…SUCCESS!!! i think everyone should leave the girl alone and move on to something more productive…personally,if i ever saw her or met her out, i have to say i would ask her out for a date, bin laden or not!AND TO WAFA, I THINK YOU ARE A BEUATIFUL WOMAN AND DESERVE A CHANCE TO SUCCEED, DON'T LET ANYTHING STOP YOU FROM REACHING YOUR GOALS!!
well i am in the navy and i think that she is hot as hell and that i fell sorry for her i think that she is a strong female and that if she want to stay in the U.S she should have that right not to say that the U S GOV should not check her out but i think that she should stay in the country and if she needs a place to stay she can stay at my house
does anyone know where i can find a transcript of wafa bin ladens 20/20 interview with barbara walters?? thanks!!
a bitch
cool
every person 'i believe' is free to be, to wear, to worship. no one has the right to judge wafa except her parents. i am a good muslim proud of being so and i admire Carmin in what she did simply becaus i believe that a real muslim is a pure peaceful clear person who loves to help and who is a productive person in the whole society, and his religion is an issue between him and god no one needs to know about it. religion shouldnt be the way u look however should be the way you realy are.Well done carmin,
I thank allah before wafa Binladin is not from Saudi Arabia anymore…..And I want to say to her: do as U like in U.S.A but i want to remind you that you are walking on the hell road.
yo whats good yu look beautiful
wafa halla at me u want a friend right u look amazin
hey u could mail me thatl be better ppl u all jealous cause shes hot
WAFA IS FREE .SHE HAS DO ANTHING.
>
THAT REALLY MEAN LIBERTY
"She studied law at Geneva University before going on to Columbia for a three-year doctorate" and she wants to be a pop star.
HELLO!!!
Stan Says:
June 7th, 2005 at 6:52 am
Only in America can a woman with the family surname of Bin Laden attempt to make it in show business. It demonstrates the greatness of the United States that tens of millions have come to its shores to reinvent themselves and to transcend the suffocating and stultifying expectations of their provincial antecedents. This capacity to reinvent and redefine is at the core of the essential vigor and greatness of this nation. Europe is dying in the detretus of moribund socialism, the Arab world is beginning to throw off the yoke of Islamo facism, China is a giant industrial zone and America is the last great hope.
…thats the most stupid thing iv eva heard
America is just like any other place. You will find millions who would invent a creative lies, and believe it themselves.
I think she is beautiful and brave. She has nothing to do with all those barbaric acts and is not accepted because she is open minded. I am so proud that she is american…
You are all jealous because she is so pretty.
every one that is talking about how muslims are and how the relegion is treating them, please try to get a little educated about it first.
there are lots of us who are born in this relegion and are muslim by default. but there are many who learnt about it and chose to follow it. and they are not stupid. yet there are others like wafa they are plane simple ignorent to not even realise what they have lost.
please guys all of you just read some books, or try to ask some learnt people about islam,for what it really is. and then you are free to say what ever you feel like.
i promis you learning about it wont harm you. and you wont regret it. but at least you would know what you are talking about.
For American's if you all have 1 sec left to put arab's in trouble you wolud not let it go. all of you know we are 100% better then you all are. and talking about freedom i my self have
been to america. now i know how to lie. PLEASE FOR JESUS NOT FOR US STOP ALL THAT FACK ACTING.
Beautifull thing always look beautifull osma hun maan noou lan waja aaye ……… maza aya way
i really really happy to hear that A muslim girl try to be western and started selling out her body and all other religions started keeping on eye on her because it is not happened commenly in our society. leave her alone let her do what she wants but won't stop thinking that she is the worst girl. the girl who doesnt respect her parents, her religion her culture her country can never be loyal with western people too.
I am leena from australia. i first heard about this american wannabe on msn today. i read the artical and coudn't believe my eyes. what a sad case. she was born a muslim she should act like one! later on in the week, i discovered a video on the internet which i couldn't see most of because it wasnt working. anyway when i saw it i was ashamed to look at her face and know her name. how can someone belonging to a beautiful religion do this. she was walking to a pool wearing what i think was an abaya and shaul, then she took it off and revealed a bikini! this is so sad. i myself live in australia see other girls of all ages and women dress unappropriately, but this, this is even more sad. she needs to see that she is trying far too hard to be accepted and that she needs a kick in the head to refresh her memory and "un brainwash herself".
May Allah have mercy on ur soul Wafa'a and may you be guided to the right path.
Personally I think she's sorta ugly and I don't consider her to prepresent the Arabs or Muslims. She's only half Arab, her mother is Swiss/Persian, which no offense to all the half Arabs out there but usually they're not that good looking. She was raised by her Swiss/Persian mother, who is probably not Muslim so you can't expect her to be a Muslim, she just calls herself one for show.
I am a Muslimah alhumdullah & my fiance is saudi! I can not believe this girl haram what she has done to her counrty, her religion all of us. She back stabbed us all so she can be a whore WOW
First off, the young lady can do what she wants-"to her heart's content"; [*Mike(post #14)Thanks! Excellent point! Although I'll allow "bluff" rather than "lie"-only for the time being-due to the overall scope both current & future-JV] Recently, a Muslim turned Christian has been sentenced to death in Afghanistan for "converting", and the relevent reasonings for the severe sentencing center around the notion that it is felt that the nation's "youth" will "escape" to the west unless examples are made; My apology to our host in what initially appear to be a "hi-jack"-pun unintentional-but my point is that I'm hearing a lot of that same despair from those who criticize this extremely well educated and travelled young woman and perhaps as a secondary point to bolster the first, "more Americans than you'd like to think" share partly in that same despair…our own children can disappear on these streets and it too will seem "a thousand miles away", but killing the next kid heading in that direction isn't going to set an example! Every religion–including several "pseudo-neo cults" that we shall not "name" here today, espouse good morals with their related conduct and visualize "peace"; So perhaps it's the responsibility of the adherents to any given faith to set the example and do the necessary work to produce like-minded brethren. May I demonstrate? Here we go:
#91: good luck in the 'porn biz';
#101: 'su madre joto,…'odele………..
See how easy that is! As Stan in post #18 above pointed out: "Only in America…!!"
Haitham, sir may I congratulate you for your awesome contribution to the world here in the form of your column(s) and also thank you for considering allowing my opinion along with the others to provoke hopefully progressive thoughts;…'that said, may I also offer up in "peace" that it is entirely conceivable that again "Stan" (#19 above) has "compressed" through and for brevity(*and a little "jab" at "Ivan"….LOL!) some points that although not "taught" by these same Professors, they're never shall we say, "far from the mind"….hhmmnn?
Point: At every level throughout our society, there exists those of us who "see" through the constant hooks, traps & pitfalls represented in again "every level" or arena, in which politics & law play a part. This "vision" also carries with it the intelligence necessary to hold said "forces"–'at bay'–so to speak, exemplified by the simple and admittedly poor axiom that "we" have held the "power" sir, to "overtake and dominate" ANY culture or nation—-by force; Up to and including absolute desolation of their respective borders. Walk up to ANY American–ANYWHERE–and mutter this simple phrase: "Remember the Maine!"…then ask him/her to present a minor "dissertation" of his/her ideas…..you may be pleasantly surprised.
Caution: Those waters run deep my friend and truly, as you've "rightly" ascertained but perhaps "wrongly" rebuked, it does run into the realms of fantasy; But then again, sir….exactly "what" is it that "religions" teach us concerning the nature of good and evil….and lastly, how indeed would one address the "fantastic", let alone, parley or struggle with or "against" in any manner thereof?
In summation, I'll venture a guess of your being "educated" to some extent or all, here in the west, and thus my admonition, namely that "certain denial" of lauded concepts, however unpopular, throws additional red flags to those that have said vision…to the far extreme of questionability regarding "motive" of (alleged) denial;
You da' man"….Jubi
ps Eugene, 'love yer' concept!..Ya' ought'ta hear what they call "me"!….'Hasta!
I went & bought the book her mom wrote, It was very good I could not put it down. But after reading this I see where she gets this from. Her mother was half persian half swedish raised & born in switzerland. She was obcessed with america even though she never lived here much. She raised her 3 daughters including waifa this way. Its the mothers fault. I mean all of them keep the "Bin Laden" name by choice but they talk about how their name is runing their life, so change it the lady is not even married to Yeslam Bin laden anymore. If your a western lady DO NOT marry a saudi come on, lol. She liked the Bin Laden money and name. Waifa does not even speak to her mother or father anymore what so ever. Shes just like her mom obcessed with America & everything to do with it. I mean I live in America & its nice, thank GOd for this country & all other ones but come on their is just so much you can act up on…
Come on, Wafa has simply chosen to live her life with the FREEDOM that in Saudi she wouldn't have and she's considered a traitress because she decided to live in a different way than some Arab and Muslim women. I can disagree with her, but she isn't a "bitch"and she has the right to pretend that people respect her, because she isn't as her uncle and her father's family! I think that her way to live is her buisiness, as her mother (with whom she speaks) and her sisters.
Alessandra, from Italy.
Ps. I don't think that Bin-LadIn is a Western pronunciation
But alessandra can u ever think of turning your back on your mother & father no matter what?
Begum, Wafa didn't stop to talk with her mum and of course it's terrible if she doesn't speak anymore with her father: I wouldn't be in her shoes and expecially in Yeslam Bin Laden's shoes, but if you read the book by Carmen Doufour, you can at the least try to understand Wafa's choise…About her way to live, inpendently from the fact of his father, she has the right to live in the way that she likes.
The girl has chosen her path for which she will face the consequences for, if her choice was beneficial then she will recieve benefit from it..which im sure she wont, sooner or later. Another thing, I keep hearing alotta this BullSH*T you people call freedom. You take the term freedom and mould it into anything that suits you but the very fact is, its just a disguise for being an ignorant prat. Who you think your kidding?..Face it, the western culture is bent on making women Flash themselves and calling it freedom when in fact its actual the total opposite! "in order to be free, you gtta show your A$$ and B*OBS" ??? HOW BACKWARDS IS THAT?!?!. The western world has the most pornographic crap on the Planet. Its all double standards. One more thing, for you nationalistic fools. You keep saying how great your country is…hmmm…really great…so much child molesting…porno…homos…and god knows what else!! really perfect aint it? Hypocrites beyond belieef!! Jeeze you people are either really arrogant or just really stupid!
Az, I appreciated the article of Haitham about hijab, in which he told that it is a free choise, but Wafa can dress and act in the way that she want as well: I don't think that she could do the same in Saudi, in Bin-Laden "clan". I surely prefered that she became a singer, than to see her sexy on QT magazine, but I belive that she had difficulties to become a singer with Bin-Laden surname (however I hope she could in her future!). She's so brave to act in this way and to be so distant from the Western stereotypes about Arab and Muslim women, but NOT only Western: some more extremist Arabs and Muslims has the same stereotypes about their women (or men). Don't covered bitches exist in Saudi?! I think that some "strong and pure" Muslims like to think about Wafa as a "bitch" (and the same it's of course about Western women). We maybe are hypocrit to speak about "freedom" in this way (way that sometimes I don't like!!!), but I think the same about an Arab or Muslim so pure in public life, but in real he can be very frustrated and repressed (I told "can" not "is").
The last thing: Yeslam Bin-Laden wasn't so happy, if I had a good memory, to have 2 baby girls and he told clearly that he didn't want the thirst: he told that Noor, Wafa's younger sister, wasn't his daughter: DNA proved that he lied.
…Another thing Az, we at the least speak about the sexual violence against children too: it's often still a taboo in Arab World for many people!
Alessandra.
Sorry Haitham, what was the matter with my previous message that has been banned???? :(
You are using more than a user name, which leads the anti-spam bots to ban you. What do you like to be known as, Alessandra or Queen Rania's fan? You have to make up your mind!
Ok, I'll use "Queen Rania's fan". By the way I sa that my first message is still there: I maybe didn't see it because my PC is crazy, sometimes:)
Hey Alessandra, How are youu? :)..Anyways back to the topic at hand..Ahh yas..whether she uses her bin laden surname in her is upto her. Name is an name, doesn't make any difference to me.
Alessandra says: "she's so brave to act in this way and to be so distant from the Western stereotypes about Arab and Muslim women"
But the very fact is,from the way she dresses to her very attitude is not of a muslim, and she is not the prime example of how Muslim women are or should be. From her very actions, it doesnt even come close to what the Quran teaches etc, so for you to say that she is so distant from the Western stereotypes about Arab and Muslim women, is partially true, but that can also be said that she is also distant from the very teachings of Islam therefore pushes her into the category of a Western woman rather than a Muslim woman as her actions and mindset match that of Western mentality.
It's true you get some bitchy covered ladies, but hey if you count back biting and all sorts, then everyone is a bitch to some degree. I think they refer to Wafa as a bitch due to her calling herself Muslim but is contradicting the image of a Muslim woman by her actions knowingly. Apart from that I don't know why else.
Alessandra says: "The last thing: Yeslam Bin-Laden wasn’t so happy, if I had a good memory, to have 2 baby girls and he told clearly that he didn’t want the thirst: he told that Noor, Wafa’s younger sister, wasn’t his daughter: DNA proved that he lied."
Yeah, I believe thats out of order to say such a thing about his daughter. The guy needs a slap in the face for that. No father should say such a thing about their children like that.
Alessandra says: "Another thing Az, we at the least speak about the sexual violence against children too: it’s often still a taboo in Arab World for many people!"
Its good that it is spoken about…but speaking hasnt reduced its occurrance. People are aware of it, but when a Pedophile is caught, he gets a measly sentence and then let out again. Thats hardly going to stop it. In Arab countries, it may happen but on a lower scale because if a person has been found committing that crime, then he is executed rather than put in jail and looked after until his release date so he can re-offend again. I dont know about you but if I knew that was going to happen to me, I would twice.
Anywho its been good debating, hope all is well. I shall now go and eat. Take care and Peace
Az
TYPE ERROR: I would think twice..not I would twice :S my mistake
Hi, Az, I'm fine thx and I hope you too.
You tell that Wafa is "far of the teaching of the true Islam": you maybe are right, but who can judge what's the "true Islam"? I think that people should care about their way to live Islam or about their life, not about the others. Do you know that telling he/she is "far of the teaching of the true Islam", can mean a fatwa of death??? I think that Osama hates his nieces and his ex-sister-in-law and he would see them died. In my opinion that all Muslims should care about terrorism and every extremism in the name of Islam: well, if it's true that Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance, that's the worst way to be "far from Islam".
Of course speaking about pedophilia, doesn't solve the problems, but it's something.
We recently had a case of a baby (and ILL baby too), cought and killed (but not raped): it was a shock for all Italy and many, me included, wanted the penality of death for whom did it, but now, even if I'm still ANGRY, I go on to tell that it isn't a solution too: they wouldn't act in this way if they die, but others unluckly, can do the same…We can't kill all of them!
I go to the lake for Easter today: see you later people and have a nice week-end! :)
Hello Queeny, im fine aswell :D, hope enjoy/enjoyed the lake.Okaay this response is going to be a MASSIVE one so I apologise if you get a head ache. But as you can see I like to disect what has been said and try to answer to the best of what I know. Erhemm lets see now…….
Queen Rania's fan says: "You tell that Wafa is “far of the teaching of the true Islam”: you maybe are right, but who can judge what’s the “true Islam”? I think that people should care about their way to live Islam or about their life, not about the others."
Well there isnt no 50 thousand ways to live islam, there is only 1 way regardless what you see in the media i.e. Different Sectors of islam. Islam began as one way, not wiv 72 or 100 etc. But yes in regards to what you said, to a degree you are correct, but my judgement is based upon what is said in the Quran and the Teachings of the prophet on the characteristics of a Muslim. If we do not match these characteristics then its easy to determine what is the true image of a muslim and what isnt. As for Wafa, you dont even need to take a second look in order to see that she is “far of the teaching of the true Islam”,as both you and me know that in Islam, Women should conceal their beauty from the preying eyes of Strangers, aswell as Guys must cover themselves appropriately.
Queen Rania's fan says: "Do you know that telling he/she is “far of the teaching of the true Islam”, can mean a fatwa of death??? I think that Osama hates his nieces and his ex-sister-in-law and he would see them died."
You cant have a fatwa put on a person just because of the lack of knowledge in Islam,if that was the case, then a fatwa would be put on converts due to them still learning.But if she clearly knew exactly what was said, and went defiantly against it, then a fatwa is given. A comparison is when someone in the US goes against the country then he/she committed an act of treason which is punishable. The same thing goes in Islam. Going against it is an act of treason against God almighty's words which muslims take very very very very very very seriously.
Its a clear fact that no one can force women to wear the hijab, because when one forces something upon another, naturally the person would pull back. That comes back to lack of understanding for it. In the west it is portrayed as a negative image, but even in christianity, jesus's mother wore a headscarf and covered herself appropriately, and she is regarded highly in Islam.
Queen Rania's fan says: "Of course speaking about pedophilia, doesn’t solve the problems, but it’s something.
We recently had a case of a baby (and ILL baby too), cought and killed (but not raped): it was a shock for all Italy and many, me included, wanted the penality of death for whom did it, but now, even if I’m still ANGRY, I go on to tell that it isn’t a solution too: they wouldn’t act in this way if they die, but others unluckly, can do the same…We can’t kill all of them!"
Thats terrible!, do you see how sick people are getting!, If that was your baby,I am pretty sure you wouldnt be saying to let the man/woman live!. Thats the thing, if you allow people who commit these acts to live, then what message is that saying to people who contemplate such acts. It just shows that even a childs life is not valuable or even cared about enough to allow these people to continue living. A quick hypothetical question. If you knew that if one was to commit such a SICK act, and you knew the penalty would be death, would you do it?. Executing them is a start in reducing the crime and will also deter people from doing it. Putting them in jail and looking after them until their release will not help at all.
Okay I have officially got a head ache :D, im going to go and lie down or something hehe. Take care and hope I got my point acrosss clearly. Have a nice daayy.. byee byeeee
Az
p.s Excuse any spelling/grammer errors
Assalam'alaikom wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu ,
Well, first of all I'd like to comment on the regards of the hijaab. Haitham I think you may have given out wrong information as to the Hijaab being a 'free choice' for a muslim woman. Perhaps you should read the Kur'an more throughly, and refer to the Surah "Noor". In fact hijaab is farz to every true believing muslim woman, it is NOT a choice, and giving out wrong information isn't good, right?
Next, I'd like to ask Alessandra what exactly is freedom? How do you define it? Does Wafa's freedom mean putting herself on display and showing "more" skin,or becomming more "Americanized" ? That's at least what I get out of previous people's comments. Is America realy the land of freedom and equality? Well, I'll ask you again. Stepping out of the house and getting referred to as a terrorist every single day? The country that doesn't ofer nothing but hateful glares and painful slurs. If Wafa had no freedom in Saudi Arabia, I have less freedom in America, in that case.
What you get is a bias view from the media, that works in their best interest, not yours.What you get is half truths and whole lies. Every muslim is refered as a terrorist. So lets say I'm watching the news and the headlines are about a serial killer, do I call every Christian/Catholic a serial killer because of that one man? You people are very ignorant and like to focuse on the things that suit you, perhaps that is why the Bible was re-written so many times,to suit people the way they like it, not the way IT IS suposed to be. It is pathetic how people have found so many flaws in Islam, yet they have not looked into their own religion. It is so easy for them to judge my religion, but if you judge their's it's a great insult! Interesting… I think the message is getting preaty clear.
I apologise for getting a little out of topic. Back to women. In the western society, research suggests that every two minutes a woman is being sexully insulted in some way or the other. Nothing happens just for the heck of it. If women would not provoke such incidents , they would never happen. If they stoped flashing their chest, and start wearing longer skirts than the ones they already are wearing,which barely cover up their behind, perhaps it would cut the offenses. You will be quick to reply "as if there aren't coverd-up b*** in Saudi" and or " such cases go rarely reported". Im talking from experience and I would answer that such cases are so rear because there is no provocation from the woman's side in the first place. She is covered. Another thing is that a woman is not beautiful when she puts on a tone of makeup and a " nice" tight dress, does her hair and shows her skin. A woman is beautiful in the way the Allah has already created her, withought any of that cheap coverup. A jewl remains hidden, it is never put on display. A muslimah is alwayz covered, becuase she loves Allah, not because she is being opressed by any one!!!
On a final note, I have nothing much to say about Wafa, just that even she wil stand infront of Allah one day. I'm just wondering what her excuse will be?
Now thats what you call a Post! Good stufff
One more thing from my side. As I'm reading through more of the comments, I realize that this is a clear portait of what is hapenning around the world, now a-days. That is, a picture painted of Mulims fighting Muslims, criticizing each other's values, traditions etc. What Muslims are not realizing is that they are doing the kufar a favor, they are geting their job done for them, and the kufar doesn't even have to "dirty" their hands.(with our blood that is) In Iraq constant killings, while the Americans are sitting aside enjoying the show. Close to 100 civilians are killed each day and only 1 or 2 Amiericans. I have been through the experience, that these people are going through. My family was killed and I was forced out of my country because we ARE Muslim. That is the point that woke me up. They are trying to kill us off, make us "dissapear" as a whole, but the fact is that they can never kill us all. I am left today of my family and I will fight everyday to remain in my faith, and to be a good Muslimah Insha'Allah. YOu also need to wake up! You need to see that the only way we win is to stop killing ourselves first! WE are sisters and brothers in ISLAM, and it is upto Allah to judge who is a good Muslim and who is a bad one, not upto us.
Hi again ppl:
Az, Islam isn't a country, so you can't comparate a fatwa with what happens in USA (the same bastard USA, eh? :)), but I condemn the penality of death there too.
At the least we in general agree in something: freedom can't be an alibi for immorality. I think that we in West have "too" freedom and too many people in Islamic and Arab World have TOO LITTLE freedom, so WE BOTH sometimes (not always) LIE. By the way I insist that it's Wafa buisiness how she act: maybe she's better Muslimah than you.:)
Yes we made wrong with that baby, but the genaralization is wrong too and it's difficult to solve pedohilia in Arab and Islamic World like HERE, also because as I told a taboo topic.
Muslimah, in this way I hope to have answered you too about freedom:)…By the way freedom is everything you do and that isn't dangerous for others people. It doesn't mean to be more "Americanized": you told it :)
Then, you tell righly that it's upto Allah to judge who is a good Muslim or Muslimah… but at the same time judge Wafa, another woman LIKE U, that differently from the terrorists "in the name of Islam"( that killed Muslims more than the others) doesn't make bad to anyone…About hijab (must or not) is a simple INTERPRETATION, also because Muslims religious and scholars don't have the same opinion about it and what it must cover, so I think that Haitham was right to say that.
PS. Have you any idea about when Mary, the mother of Jesus lived?? More than 2000 years ago! :) So she wears the veil as the women of her time.
Assalam'alaikom…
If that is the way you would define freedom than thre is no freedom in this world what so ever, Queen. In the world today you are not allowed to do all the things you would want to do,so are any of us really free? In America any muslim who speaks out against Bush is taken as a terrorist and sent into some prison camp such as the one in Guantanamo Obey and never heard of again. To top it off no one even cares to give them a fare trial, as they are entitled to get as every person living in this country acording to their first amendment " freedom of speach" !Surely freedom is doing things you want to, but only if you are allowed to do them in the first place. Also the trial case of Mossaoui. For crying out loud the man was in jail on September 11, and they blame him for crashing 4 planes!!." He could have said something", did Bush tell anyone he was going to attack Iraq while he was making plans to do so even before 9/11 ??? That's wot they call justice. Sure!
As for Wafa, any sober,knowledgeable true Muslim, would disagree on the fact that she is a Musilmah. "By the way I insist that it’s Wafa buisiness how she act: maybe she’s better Muslimah than you.:)". I won't judge myself, because as I said before it is upto Allah to judge who is good or bad. If she was "any" kind of Muslim she would have not made such poses infront of the camera for the whole world to see. And please do not compare me to such a woman.
Terrorist- is not defined in a dictinonary "Muslim", the last time I cheked. Why weren't the Japanese refered to as terrorist when they were bombing Pearl Harbor, or the Nazis when they were whyping off a whole race??? Why is it when the Isrealis kill Palestinian children the media doesn't care to report, but when a Palestinian get's them back , every news media is ready to say how horrible Muslims are.
Moving on to the Hijaab issue. Muslim "scholors" don't have the same opinion. One should not follow what "scholors" are saying but what Allah has said in the Holy Kur'an, and that is where it does say that a woman has to wear it. THe controversial thing is whether a woman needs to wear a niqaab( the veil that covers her face as well). Mary did live perhaps a long time aago, she did wear a headscarf, but just because she lived some time ago justifys for a woman not to wear it today? Even Christian women were proper and were covered completely, but instead of a veil they worse a hat when they went outside of the house. It was recent when they started doing other wise. in the 1920's to be more specific. When women wanted more rights and power they did gain power but lost self respect because their scirts were getting shorter and shorter. But if you see any of the Christian Nuns, why do they remaind covered? Because they still believe in the true Christian path which many have gone astray from.
Anyway, I hope I have cleard some misconceptions, pls ask if you are unclear still….
Dear Muslimah, I tought some years ago that only some men could having bad opinion about some women that wanna lived their life as they LIKE (and maybe they are more MODEST than them!!!Yes, I compare also you to her): I recently understood that I mistook!… It's sad that a woman judges another, as a man could do, by the way I saw that I can't make change opinion to you. Maybe you think that freedom is arrest or kill a "bitch" as Wafa…
About America, it isn't true that "any Muslim who speaks out against Bush is taken as terrorist…Guantanamo and blah, blah blah": did the authors of 9/11 "SPEAK against Bush"??? Well, maybe they SPEAK in these way, but in my opinion it isn't "SPEAKING"! AFTER 11/9, they NEEDED special misures as security for USA. Maybe there are also innocents people in Guantanamo and NO TERRORISM CAN JUSTIFY TORTURES…but many of them are terrorists (don't that they are "innocent because they are Muslims and they are jailed from USA"!), because they acted against the security of USA and they were Talibans.
I know that the dictionary doesn't define "terrorists" as "Muslims" and it's right that in West some (maybe many people) think that: but you should explain that also to who makes terrorist acts, as THEY SAY, "in the name of islam", because they use your religion for their bastard goals! I'm sure that islam is a "religion of peace of tolerance", right? Well, Muslim first should demonstrate that to us! West is ignorant about islam, but it's a MUST for Muslims break these ignorance!
Hijab: it's a racomandation, not a must and, by the way, you must consider also the context of the Quraan.
I was sure that you gave me the example of nuns: but it isn't a good example. That's because none Christian woman is forced to become a nun, in the modern period (it happened, but in the past, expecially for hight class families, as men should become priests if they were second children, because the property of father should go to the 1st children: it was terrible!). So none woman is forced to wear the veil now (and if she becomes a nun, she knows that she must wear it and she accept).
Instead a Muslim woman can be forced to wear hijab (unluckly not only in Islamic countries! :( ): this is based on your interpretation of Quraan.
You can wear it, but a woman can be modest also WITHOUT it.
Bye, bye to all.
Ps. Why the title "Wafa: Bin Laden's niece-a material girl, not Madonna"? Right because it's normal that Madonna, a Western woman, is a "material girl" (like her song), but Wafa shouldn't because she is Muslim? :)
Sorry, people, my English isn't so good and I type quickly! :(
I do have my opinions Queen, not everyone may agree with them, nor do I expect everyone to agree with them. We are two different women who come from two different backgrounds, so I would not expect you to agree with me either.
"Maybe you think that freedom is arrest or kill a “bitch” as Wafa…". I DID notice that "maybe", perhaps you should ask me what I think freedom is, before you quickly jump to a conclusion of what my views may be; or did you base your assumption on the fact that I am a Muslim and other people have said that comment before?
Would you know for a fact that muslims are not just sent to prison camps for no reason? you really think the US would announce such actions to the public? Of course authors wouldn't "speack" against Bush in the report, why would they? Think about who works in the "National Commission on Terrorist Attacks" who are by the way the autors of the book. More people like Bush himself.
If Muslims are terrorists for "killing" the innocent, what are Americans called, and all those other people from different countries that have sent their army to Iraq? Are they not "killing" innocent themselves?? Of course the media works in their best interest to show just how Muslims are killing their casulties, they never care to show how many Muslims their casulties have killed! No, because it's not important how many Muslim lives are lost, but if one of their's is killed, its a BIG deal. I may sound a little heartless, but you wouldn't know what it is to see your loved one being killed infront of you just because you were MUSLIM. One Christian is killed, 100 Muslims pay the price. America's "democracy" preaches freedom, is freedom killing those people? If America didn't stick their nose where it doesn't belong, there would be perhaps more poeple ALIVE, than "free". The thing is why should Muslims try to breack through the ignorance of the Westerners, why doesn't the West take their blindfolds off and stop walking in the dark. Open your eyes and see the clear truth for youself.
"Instead a Muslim woman can be forced to wear hijab (unluckly not only in Islamic countries! ): this is based on your interpretation of Quraan." Wrong, you want to believe that is what I said because the world is feeding your mind with such remarks. I believe I said it states in the Kur'an that a woman has to wear it, not that she can be "forced" to wear it! Two different things. If the woman is a true believer she will go with that Allah has told her, and if not she is "choosing" to go "against" it. It's only that if we "choose" to do one thing, we are always "choosing" not to do something else.
I don't think the example was bad, it may just not have gotten to you. Christianity has so many different interpretations that after so many years they are now findin the real whereabouts of the Bible. Didn't you believe that Judeus was a traitor, and after so long it was found that he was indeed a loyal man? Through the changes in the religion, the women of your religion have changed aswell. You may want to be modern, but that is also another "choice" you make, does it always mean that it's the right one? Westerners say that the Middle East is stuck in the "middle ages" perhaps we are just holding on to our culture and beliefs that you people have lost a grip of.
Hi Muslimah, first of all, I wanna ask you sorry for my sentence "Maybe you think that freedom is to arrest or kill a > as Wafa": I use discuss with so much passion, expecially about Western and Muslim women! I didn't tell you that "because you are Muslim", but I felt that you wasn't so "open", in order my point of view, about this topic.
About hijab, I just tell you that, IN MY OPINION ( I add now), this interpretation, CAN (of course not in every case) make a someone to force a woman to wear it (of course not always). By the way, you have the right to think as you want… Yes, you grew up in a different background of me, but I'm sure that Muslims don't think in the same way and we Westerners neither.
About USA, even if they kill innocent people in Iraq (and they do!), they don't do it right for killing, so they aren't terrorists: they are soldiers in a war. By the way I didn't agree with the war in Iraq it surely is a crazy tragedy!!! About Abu Grahib, for example, I have really no comment for the BASTARD AND STUPID SOLDIERS who did it! But what about the REAL terrorists that someone call "resistents"? First of all, most of them come from OUT of Iraq and the most bastard of them comes from Jordan (even if that animal hates the Royal Family, would see them died and he has been sentenced to death more than once in Jordan)and than they kill more Iraqis civilians than Americans, ITALIANS, English soldiers and so on!!! What about these "resistents" that kill the Iraqis that wanna work for the new Iraqi police and they kill them as "collaborationists"?? What about the attacks of Sunnites and Shites against each others (however the STUPID Bush,should imagine that this war would bring to this!!!).
And at the end: were Iraqi people happy under Saddam? A war of freedom is against a dictator, not against whom it fred from him…:(
I must tell you that, as I know most American people don't actually like Bush and I DON'T TOO.
No, I don't think that Judeus are "traitors"!!! As John Paul II said, they are our "older brothers". Women didn't change the teaching of the Bible: after the Vatican Council II, Church established that only the women that decided to be nuns, have to wear veil, but, I didn't tell you, there are some woman that we call "secular nuns" that lives a nuns and don't make sex, but they don't wear the veil.
You are right telling that in Middle East there usually is another chioce of life, but don't generalize, neither about Muslims, nor about non-Muslims Westerns.
Many things of Middle Eastern's way of life are BAD, don't hide you behind a fingers, because many societies are still patrirchal, more than in West. By the way I MUST realise that many things are BAD in West.
Take care.
round 1 to muslimah ding dinggg
Az, there isn't a round here: I think it can happen to exaggerate discussing. I personally felt right to say sorry for that, explanning that I use to discuss with much passion, expecially about some topics. I stay with my opinion and she stays with hers and, in in some points, it isn't totally different, if you red: I also hate Bush, I also didn't agree with this war, I'm also terrorized what is going on to happen there.
Wa alikomo'asalam Queen,
Thank you for the apology, first of all.
Sure you have your opinion, and I know we can go on like this forever and never really get to the same conclusion. Point is, you a Western woman, can never agree with my values,that of a Muslim woman.
"About USA, even if they kill innocent people in Iraq (and they do!), they don’t do it right for killing, so they aren’t terrorists: they are soldiers in a war." So just because they are soliders in a war they can kill innocent people? Just because they are at "war" it justifys for them to kill? Are Muslims supposed to stand there like nothing is happening and not try to defend themselves with what ever means they can? We may not have the weapons the west has, does it mean we should just let them use theirs? And the war is not just in Iraq. The West has become very silent about Afghanistan, the borders of Pakistan? They have stopped reporting, but what about those people aswell, so which country is next, IRAN? They are using their politics, spread of "democracy", and freedom for the middle eastern people to slowly get into every Arab country.
But yes, so if they are using the excuse of war to manipulate peoples minds, it justifys for them to KILL? Please, that is just pathetic.
"And at the end: were Iraqi people happy under Saddam? A war of freedom is against a dictator, not against whom it fred from him…:( " …Wasn't it the US itself who supported him in the first place? US intelligence helped Saddam’s Ba`ath Party seize power for the first time in 1963. Evidence suggests that Saddam was on the CIA payroll as early as 1959, when he participated in a failed assassination attempt against Iraqi strongman Abd al-Karim Qassem. In the 1980s, the US and Britain backed Saddam in the war against Iran, giving Iraq arms, money, satellite intelligence, and even chemical & bio-weapon precursors. As many as 90 US military advisors supported Iraqi forces and helped pick targets for Iraqi air and missile attacks. They did all this for their own interst of course, now that they didn't need him, they got rid of him, trying to look "good".
So you didn't think that Judeus was a traitor, but what was it that was written in the Bible and believed in for decades, now found to be false? As for the nuns, its was still the "Vatican Council II, Church" who imposed "their" beliefs, and not what it says in the "Bible". My point, people changed the meanings in the way that suited them.
Yes, many things are different between the Middle East and the West, but the West should not try to change our values just because they don't agree with them.
i wont pay a 1$ for this whore , damn she is so ugly , i realy dont understand what they like in this slut
Dear Muslimah, I think our values shouldn't be different just because I'm Western and Christian girl and you an Arab and Muslimah. Theological belives are of course different, but I'm frightened to hear that our "values" are different…By the way it can be so for you, but I wouldn't swear that for other Muslims is the same of you, just because they belive in the same religion of you. You are human beings too, so you can have different opinions. I think that it's important to try to dialogue untill is possible and not thinking a priori "we are different, so we naturally think differently"!:(
About war. As I told I hate Bush, I desagree about the war in Iraq and I'm so worry for what is happeing there day by day: it seems that it will never finish!!! But I think that there is a difference between someone that kills innocents people with intentention and someone that does the same without it (even if the result is the same :( !) and remember that, many Iraqi civilians are killed not from American soldiers!
Yes, Saddam was a "creature of USA" and Bin-Laden too (as many Arabs like to remind, also to "hide" the responsabilities of these two people!), but they wouldn't "create them, thinking that they would be enemies!
About Afghanistan, I remind you that Bin-Laden maybe is still hidden there or in the border of Pakistan!
About Iran, I don't think that USA will attack it, because it has too many troubles in Iraq and Americans people are tired…but you should ask Ahmadinejad too if the next State to be attacked will be Iran! :)
Judaism: we shouldn't think that Judaism is "false". It semply came before Christianity. Jesus was Jew too, but He told something very new.
I don't know what moved Church to tell that just nuns should wear the veil, but Church surely could walk with the time and that's good in my opinion. Theological bases and values are the same and it's still more important than a hijab on the head!
West doesn't want to change your values: it wants to be sure and safe from some terrorists and tyrans that they are dangerous for you too, even if someone of you don't realise (and I understand that it's difficult to do it, if one is frightened) and even if that stupid Bush doesn't realise that "maybe" a war isn't a right solution (by the way we told Saddam to leave his power to avoid the war and he didn't want: is it fault of Bush too?).
By the way we are going out of the topic that it was Wafa (and we talked enought about her too:) )
Assalam 'alaikom, queen.
I have touched upon all the issues before, and I don't want to get into a lengthy response all over again, and just keep repeating myself.
Values are based on " theological beliefs", therefore if our opinons differ it is due to our differences in values. Meaning, our beliefs and values are completely different because of the values we have been taught.
In Iraq, if it wasn't their itention to kill innocent people, the US shouldn't have gone into Iraq in the first place. They claim they are at war, so they "accidentally" kill the innocent people, and it is OK for them to kill.
It is not a defense if Arabs say that Sadaam and Bin Laden were supported by the US, but it is a fact the US is now trying to manipulate. " About Afghanistan, I remind you that Bin-Laden maybe is still hidden there or in the border of Pakistan!" Allah knows where he "may be" now, so why are they targeting places if they are not sure? So much for their intelligence.
IRAN,- who would have thought that america would attack Iraq either, yet they did!
" West doesn’t want to change your values: it wants to be sure and safe from some terrorists and tyrans that they are dangerous for you too, even if someone of you don’t realise (and I understand that it’s difficult to do it, if one is frightened)"
I am frightened of no one but Allah, queen. We never asked for the "help" from the west so why are they slowly invading the Middle East with their false views of "freedom" and "democracy."
wa alaikomo'asalam queen,
"That’s why I’m frightened with what you tought: it seems that you think to have the truth in your end and, telling that “our values are complitely different”, you mean that we from West are WITHOUT VALUES"
I did not say the west had no values queen, i said we have different values. Values is a system of "Beliefs" attitudes and feelings about how you choosee to live your life the way you do. Every individual has his own beliefs that are afected by their culture, religion, surroundings and, etc… You may have missunderstood, I never implied that the West had NO values, but it has DIFFERENT values then that of the east.
No I am not Iraqi, but I asure that I know what the Iraqi people thought of Sadaam. I never argued they "liked" him, but that it was the US who put a dictator into power, like they have done in many other countries.
"No, you aren’t frightened just Allah: you wouldn’t speak in this way if you were."
I was stating that I am not afraid of no lunatics who set out and try to whipe out a whole race, but sometimes I get the ipression that the West fears Islam!
Let me remind you of few more incidents beside the ones in the Middle East. Remember Bosnia 1992, the genocide? 200,000 muslims murdered in the most vicious ways no man could even imagine. Women raped to clense their "muslim" blood, and children orphaned, while mothers were carying the sons of bastards in their wombs. After fourteen years they are still exhuming dozens of mass graves each year, with which the Serbs were trying to cover up their crimes with. And this is still recent! Kosovo,and what about Chechniya, it is still going on. Another, not as grievous incident however, in France, where they tried to ban the hijaab?
"We must receive back today other Italian soldiers killed in Nassiriya with another Romanian soldier and another Italian is grave…Just drave to say me “You deserve it, because this is the war!” "
Im sorry, but why are the Italians, Romanians, English, and anyone else who sent their troops to Iraq, infact there? I am not saying you deserve it, but it is something these people have have brought onto themselves. Iraqis didn't invite them to come and get killed, have they?
"Oh, yes, I add something more: 1 of these soldiers had a 4 month years-old baby and another was going to come back home on 10th May! "
And what about the children that were orphaned in Iraq? (Still, I'm not justifying their deaths)
Dang. Almost a year later, and this discussion lives on.
Why are people politicizing this so much? Is this because we respond to images more than to abstract ideas? Come off it, she's just a rich chick who wants to do what she wants to do. It's as simple as that. Calling her a 'whore' reflects poorly on the commentator, not on Wafa Binladin. Using her as a strawman to criticize the Western monolith is laughable.
I don't give a rat's ass who this girl is, or where she came from, or what she wears, but I'm glad to live in a country where threatening her for her choices is illegal.
Enough said.
Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU, Natalia! Ditto 100 times over!
Hello Everyone, i m quite a modern saudi girl myself. And i HATE The fact that this attention seeking silly woman has the same name as me!
My personal opinion is that no one is actually mad about if wafaaaaaaH binladen likes to sing or collect bottle caps! everyone has the right to choose their path. But i dont get the selfishness in this girl, who refuses to take any responsibility about her own family name and respect. i mean come on woman! atleast wear a BRA!
I think most people in the arab world INCLUDING ME are a little mad at wafaaaaaaH for acting like a helpless victim of the cruel cruel arab world! YEAH RIGHT! this woman gets on my nerves with her annoying pouting lips and her inability to smile.
I was raging when i first saw her on MBC4 in an interview. She talks about saudi arabia as if the women here are chained!! Ok, there are limitations to every society, but honestly its not even close to what she makes it sound!
i think if she would have behaved herself and taken up singing in the middle east, she wouldnt have been this boooooed! Nancy ajram, elysa, wardah, there are tons of arabic singers, who dont cross the lines of decency. Ok lets say she doesnt speak Arabic, like she CLAIMS! when she actually lived till she was 8 in jeddah! ok even then, lets say she is dumb and didnt learn to speak till she was 8 so she decides to sing in english! my say is SING WAFAAAAH sing! by alll means SING! if thats what makes u happy then sing your heart out! BUT STOP CRITIZING THE SAUDI CULTURE, TRADITIONS AND ISLAM.
I´M NOT HAPPY FOR READING THE ANSWERS CAUSE ALL OF IT PROVES AN IGNORANCE OF A HIGH DEGREE, WHAT´S THE PROBLEM IF SHE IS BEN LADIN FAMILY? DOES IT MEAN SOMETHING ONLY ALLAH CAN JUGDE, NOT YOU OR YOU OR YOU SO LET THE PEOPLE DO WHAT THEY WANT YOU AINT GOD AND ABOUT BEN LADIN I USE TO RESPECTING HIM SINCE THE 9 -11 CAUSE THE MUSLIMS DONT KILL CIVILANS AND THOSE WHOM DO IT ARE ANOTHER SORT OF MUSLIMS THAT I DIDN´T HEARD ABOUT THEM !!!WHY I USED TO RESPECTING CAUSE HE FIGHT BACK THE RUSSIAN WITH THE HELPS OF THE USA TO SAVE THE MUSLIMS AND TALIBAN WERE HEROES AT THIS TIME BUT WITH SUCH ACTS CAUSE OF THE ANGER AND MISUNDERSTANDING THE SITUATIONS, IT CAN DO STRICT REACTION EVEN BETWEEN MUSLIMS PLUS I WANTED TO ADD LOOK HOW THE PEOPLE ARE HAPPY AND SOME ANGRY SO NAIVES TO BYING COMMERCIAL THINGS FOR SOMETHING TOO CHEAP IT DOESN´T EVEN MEAN SOMETHING TO YOU JUST A CLOWN WHO BRING ANOTHER CLOWN TO WRITTING HER OWN LIFE TOO STUPID TO READ SUCH THING BUT YOU GOT YOUR OWN RIGHT TO DO IT CAUSE IT´S DEMOCRATI SO DONT LOOSE YOUR TIME WITH CRAPS THIS IS WHAT I WANTED TO SAY
I am amazed that a very valid discusssion that was supposed to comment on the shenanigans of a young lady in new york who's shamelessly using her bin laden name for self publicity (whilst lamenting that the name is some sort of a handicap in her not very successful musical/modelling career) has turned into an Iranian/Arab/Shi'a/Sunni debate!!!!
Surely there can be another totally different forum to debate an issue that is an eternal and never ending one!!
I also cannot believe some of the comments (including some from you Haitham) about how Islam was forced on to the people of Iran (and by definition other non-Arab Muslim countries) whilst people in Saudi Arabia had a choice!! If Islam was indeed forced upon anyone then surely the responsibility lies with the Arabs themseleves. However i do agree that the massive change in Iran, from a supposedly westernised society to a a deeply conservative Islamic one in a matter of days did have a profound effect on the whole region and yes large numbers of Iranians living abroad have totally rejected their Iranian/Islamic heritage.
Having now made added my "tuppence" worth of comment, i still think this discussion seems to have taken a very nasty sectarian, nationalistic tone and somehow does not seem to befit what is in my view one of the best blogs being published from that part of the world.
Keep up the good work anyways and best regards to all.
whether you like it or not, anytime faith is related to a subject, it will b d core of d discussion as that is what ppl naturally look upon as the cause/blame/influence etc. Predictable.
I think she has sexy feet and I would like to smell their raw light, and sexy and smart-ass benk. It would give me an instant erection!
Then I would insert it in her and sleep IN her the whole night.
Please DELETE randy´s comment 149 for being mysogynistic and plain ugly. That´s one sick, inmature boy…
ass, waifa did stop talking to her mom I read that in her moms book she said after 911 her daughter never spoke to her again…
This discussion amuses me first I am MUSLIMAH & this is a topic on Waifa we are not discussing our religion so much but it is how she is talking about her own as she is. Ok she does not want to be Muslim that is between her & GOD. Ok she does not want to be arab but her father is Saudi & she is ashamed, ok. Their is the differance. If she does not like being middle eastern that is not her choice bc she is & we all are what we are no matter what. She has no right to talk about innocent people though. SHe is insulting all the Saudis the way she is speaking of the country & people. She lied saying she does not know arabic, SHE DOES trust me. She wants to be white so bad she can not stand it but she just is not. Like wafa farid said above their are many GREAT arabic singers. The thing is I know waifa would never make it here in America as a singer no matter what her name is, lol.. Just do not disrespect others bc you are shamed that is all.
WAFA Doufur IM TAKING SIDES WITH U ALL of you young,narrowmind middle class AMericans need to take 1 step back and look at your self. Wafa is remarkable young women, shes a good rolemodel for young ladies, AND STOP ATTACKING HER mother, IM NOT Arab, either muslium but i read INSIDE THE Saudi kingdom, AND Carem is a strong motovated women, try doing that on ur own
Is the above poster THEE Chrissie Hynde or is she just a "pretender"? http://www.chrissiehynde.com/bio.htm :)
I think this is the best description I have found of Ms Binladin,
"So she's an Arabian Paris Hilton with less talent." Obviously this woman has not made it big in anything other than making a spectacle of herself which only her name allowed her to do in the first place.
If she were just an "average run of the mill female" she would be waitressing in New York or Hollywood right along with all the other wannabes. The ONLY thing that has gotten her all this attention is her name yet she says she's ashamed of her heritage. Uh huh, sure, without it she would be a total no-body.
oh my god i did not like wafah. she is soooooo cheap. trash. i blame all on her mother and father. i read the book and did not believe any shit that woman said. they are all cheap drowned up by wealth!! they dont think that their wealth is from Allah and is all test. although i hope her and her family the best and dont see how their problem is gonna change very soon. and from them all i believe Najia will be prosperous. i wonder where and what she is doing now.
What a hoe.
waffa do to the fact that i think that youre actually hot and very sexxy let me ask what would it take for a american guy such as i myself to experimce being able to spend some quality time with you as to therefore exfoliate all the damages of which has been done to us both life.look i do feel that i do hold the quailfications of fitting up to your expedctations in all the differnt things youre heart desire in a realman, so if your beautiful eyes encounter to read this dialoquethen think about me because i allways think about you ,from me to you xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxox
to hold you in my arms and embrace the differnt fragments of youre exsitence for overall satisfactions as to reach destinations beyond any limit's qualitytime is something i got alot of great sex is something i enjooy besides soccer cicrket and football,i just thought you would like to know that a storng young man with a strong back is me
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