One of the reasons I'm writing about this topic today, is this comment by Gladwyn, which clearly implies unclear understanding of Hijab in particular and Islam in general.
Hijab has been the subject of much controversy and debate, especially since the French government decided to ban hijab and other religious "symbols" from public schools. Everyone wants to know what's hijab all about? Is hijab a matter of choice or not? Do Muslim women get forced to wear the hijab? How do the non-Muslims view the Muslim women? Why does the West see The Veil as symbol of oppression of women, making them invisible, anonymous and voiceless? Is the Headscarf symbol of Islam only, or does it have any roots in Judaism and Christianity? What's the origin of The Veil?
A lot of question, I know. Most if not all were answered over many debates and on many occasions, however, since many of the visitors here are from western background, it is important for me to try to answer some of these questions again, and I'm sure many others will have a different opinions.
But before we talk about hijab, it has to be made clear first that Muslim women in the Muslim world today do not receive the noble treatment described by Islam! (This is a shocking statement, someone might say. I mean you don't expect a person to defend some Islamic symbol, yet criticize his Muslim society. But one has to be fair!).
Anyway, the vast differences among Muslim societies make most generalizations too simplistic. There is a wide spectrum of attitudes towards women in the Muslim world today. These attitudes differ from one society to another and within each individual society. Nevertheless, certain general trends are discernible. Almost all Muslim societies have, to one degree or another, deviated from the ideals of Islam with respect to the status of women. These deviations have, for the most part, been in one of two opposite directions. The first direction is more conservative, restrictive, and traditions-oriented, while the second is more liberal and Western-oriented.
The societies that have digressed in the first direction treat women according to the customs and traditions inherited from their forebears. These traditions usually deprive women of many rights granted to them by Islam. Besides, women are treated according to standards far different from those applied to men. This discrimination pervades the life of any female: she is received with less joy at birth than a boy; she is less likely to go to school; she might be deprived any share of her family's inheritance; she is under continuous surveillance in order not to behave immodestly while her brother's immodest acts are tolerated; she might even be killed for committing what her male family members usually boast of doing; she has very little say in family affairs or community interests; she might not have full control over her property and her marriage gifts; and finally as a mother she herself would prefer to produce boys so that she can attain a higher status in her community.
Back to Hijab. Let us shed some light on what is considered in the west as the greatest symbol of women's oppression and servitude, Hijab, the veil or the head cover. Hijab is derived from the Arabic word hajaba, which means to conceal or to prevent from being seen. The garb must be loose and opaque and must be worn, whenever the women either leaves the house, or whenever male visitors not belonging to the family are received. Only the hands and face may, according to the prophet Mohammed, be visible, but this point is rather controversial. Some also choose to cover these parts of the body, but more often than not this is the result of the personal choice of the individual woman.
Ok then. But, is it true that there is no such thing as the veil in the Judaeo-Christian tradition? Let's set the record straight.
According to Rabbi Dr. Menachem M. Brayer (Professor of Biblical Literature at Yeshiva University) in his book 'The Jewish woman in Rabbinic literature', it was the custom of Jewish women to go out in public with a head covering which, sometimes, even covered the whole face leaving one eye free. He quotes some famous ancient Rabbis saying,"It is not like the daughters of Israel to walk out with heads uncovered" and "Cursed be the man who lets the hair of his wife be seen….a woman who exposes her hair for self-adornment brings poverty."
Rabbinic law forbids the recitation of blessings or prayers in the presence of a bareheaded married woman since uncovering the woman's hair is considered "nudity".
Dr. Brayer also mentions that "During the Tannaitic period the Jewish woman's failure to cover her head was considered an affront to her modesty. When her head was uncovered she might be fined four hundred zuzim for this offense." Dr. Brayer also explains that veil of the Jewish woman was not always considered a sign of modesty. Sometimes, the veil symbolized a state of distinction and luxury rather than modesty. The veil personified the dignity and superiority of noble women. It also represented a woman's inaccessibility as a sanctified possession of her husband. It is clear in the Old Testament that uncovering a woman's head was a great disgrace and that's why the priest had to uncover the suspected adulteress in her trial by ordeal (Numbers 5:16-18).
The veil signified a woman's self-respect and social status. Women of lower classes would often wear the veil to give the impression of a higher standing. The fact that the veil was the sign of nobility was the reason why prostitutes were not permitted to cover their hair in the old Jewish society. However, prostitutes often wore a special headscarf in order to look respectable. Jewish women in Europe continued to wear veils until the nineteenth century when their lives became more intermingled with the surrounding secular culture. The external pressures of the European life in the nineteenth century forced many of them to go out bare-headed. Some Jewish women found it more convenient to replace their traditional veil with a wig as another form of hair covering. Today, most pious Jewish women do not cover their hair except in the synagogue. Some of them, such as the Hasidic sects, still use the wig.
What about the Christian tradition? It is well known that Catholic Nuns have been covering their heads for hundreds of years, but that is not all. St. Paul in the New Testament made some very interesting statements about the veil:
"Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonours his head. And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonours her head – it is just as though her head were shaved. If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or shaved off, she should cover her head. A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head" (I Corinthians 11:3-10).
St. Paul's rationale for veiling women is that the veil represents a sign of the authority of the man, who is the image and glory of God, over the woman who was created from and for man.
St. Tertullian in his famous treatise 'On The Veiling Of Virgins' wrote, "Young women, you wear your veils out on the streets, so you should wear them in the church, you wear them when you are among strangers, then wear them among your brothers…"
Among the Canon laws of the Catholic church today, there is a law that require women to cover their heads in church. Some Christian denominations, such as the Amish and the Mennonites for example, keep their women veiled to the present day. The reason for the veil, as offered by their Church leaders, is "The head covering is a symbol of woman's subjection to the man and to God" : The same logic introduced by St. Paul in the New Testament.
From all the above evidence, it is obvious that Islam didn't invent the head cover, but Islam endorsed it. The Quran urges the believing men and women to lower their gaze and guard their modesty and then urges the believing women to extend their head covers to cover the neck and the bosom "Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty……And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms…." (24:30,31).
The Quran is quite clear that the veil is essential for modesty, but why is modesty important? The Quran is still clear:
"O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their bodies (when abroad) so that they should be known and not molested" (33:59).
This is the whole point, modesty is prescribed to protect women from molestation or simply, modesty is protection.
Thus, the only purpose of the veil in Islam is protection. The Islamic veil, unlike the veil of the Christian tradition, is not a sign of man's authority over woman nor is it a sign of woman's subjection to man. The Islamic veil, unlike the veil in the Jewish tradition, is not a sign of luxury and distinction of some noble married women. The Islamic veil is only a sign of modesty with the sole purpose of protecting women, all women. The Islamic philosophy is that it is always better safe than sorry.
In fact, the Quran is so concerned with protecting women's bodies and women's reputation that a man who dares to falsely accuse a woman of unchastity will be severely punished, "And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations)- Flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors"(24:4).
Compare this strict Quranic attitude with the extremely lax punishment for rape in the Bible
"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives" (Deut. 22:28-30).
One must ask a simple question here, who is really punished? The man who only paid a fine for rape, or the girl who is forced to marry the man who raped her and live with him until he dies? Another question that also should be asked is this: which is more protective of women, the Quranic strict attitude or the Biblical lax attitude?
Some people, especially in the West, would tend to ridicule the whole argument of modesty for protection. Their argument is that the best protection is the spread of education, civilised behaviour, and self restraint. We would say: Fine but not enough.
- If 'civilization' is enough protection, then why is it that women in North America, dare not walk alone in a dark street – or even across an empty parking lot?
- If Education is the solution, then why is it that a respected university like University of Essex has a 'walk home service' for female students on campus?
- If self restraint is the answer, then why are cases of sexual harassment in the workplace on the news media every day?
A sample of those accused of sexual harassment, in the last few years, includes: Navy officers, Managers, University professors, Senators, Supreme Court Justices, and the President of the United States!
I couldn't believe my eyes when I read the following statistics, written in a pamphlet issued by the Dean of Women's office at Queen's University:
Something is fundamentally wrong in this society. A radical change in the society's life style and culture is absolutely necessary. A culture of modesty is badly needed, modesty in dress, in speech, and in manners of both men and women. Otherwise, the grim statistics will grow even worse day after day and, unfortunately, women alone will be paying the price. Therefore, a society like France which expels young women from schools because of their modest dress is, in the end, simply harming itself.
It is one of the great ironies of our world today that the very same headscarf revered as a sign of 'holiness' when worn for the purpose of showing the authority of man by Catholic Nuns, is reviled as a sign of 'oppression' when worn for the purpose of protection by Muslim women. (Friday khutbah by Sherif Muhammad. Kingston, February, 1995)
The orthodox Muslim woman does not perceive the veil as inhibiting or oppresive. On the contrary. The veil guarantees her the full respect of the surroundings, and thus must be considered a privilege rather than a burden.
The dignity of the wife or the daughters, or the dignity of any Muslim woman, for that matter, must be respected and protected. The western entertain the erroneous notion that the veil represents a compulsion from the husband and the religion. But women wearing veils, on the other hand, normally radiate devotion towards their religion. They have chosen the veil as a clear demonstration of their Muslim identity.
Forcing anyone to do something against their own will is against Islam. There is no demand of compulsion in the Koran. On the other hand, every human being should see it as a religious duty to act out of a clean heart.
Of course there may be families where the woman is forced, for instance to stay at home. But that does not imply that doing so is Islam.
Last but not least, across the Muslim world, from high-end fashion stores in Dubai to more economic ones in working-class Cairo, women shop for a range of Islamic garb from stark black abayas in feather-light chiffon or heavy cotton, to exquisitely embroidered gallabeyas – or long flowing gowns – and ornately beaded and sequined hijabs.
The diversity ranges from the gallabeyas and abayas with scarves of the Arab world to the chador or manteau (coat) and russari (scarf) of the Persian world to the chuni or wispy fabric accompanying the shalwar kameez in the Indian subcontinent to an assortment of veils and burqas worn in Muslim Southeast Asia and Africa.
They all fall under the rubric of the hijab, a term loosely, if not always accurately, employed to denote loose clothing topped by a headscarf.
But within Islam, the issue of veiling is a subject for considerable debate. Some Islamic experts say the text is open to interpretations, which has accounted for the diversity of veiling traditions across the Islamic world.
"Although the Koran does call upon women to cover their heads, the measures change from tradition to tradition. The burqa in particular, is part of local traditions in different parts of the world. While the Koran does not obliterate the need for hijab, Muslim women have a choice based on their circumstances. But Koranic injunctions definitely call for modesty in dressing."
Poll final result:
{ 150 } Comments
Haitham, that is indeed a great post. I agree with you on a lot of the arguments you made, save for the comparision of societies in regards to sexual assault.
I don't believe that Arab men are any better, especially those opressed by religious figures such as in Saudi Arabia. I lived there my entire life as you know, and the viel there is so misused/misunderstood that women do not dare to step outside the house.
I know many girls personally and have heard of so many stories about rape, sexual assault, and misconduct that the statistics of Canada shy away in comparision.
I know that this is not to be generalized, for as everyone knows, the Levantine countries are very safe for women.
Thanks for the great post Haitham!
What a concidence, I was thinking of writing about Hijab in the Arab Muslim countries. Wearing a veil is choosing to obey Allah-swt-, I believe its about choosing the right path.
Roba, I agree with you regarding Saudi. As I said, it's a matter of tradition and culture from a place to another.
On the other hand, regarding the statistics, the argument here is, “if the best protection is by spreading of education, civilized behavior, and self restraint as the west says.” Then why it is not working in the west? Clearly that is not enough protection.
SC, the more the better. Please if you have more, or you can shed more light on any part, please do so and “ping” this post ;-)
Thanks for the great Post… I always find myself defending Isalm.. and now you clearly have given me evidence and arguments that hat Hijab exists in other religions as well, not only Islam… However, I am not very sure how i feel about Hijab to be honest.
1-It fascinates me that the Quran left this specific issue among others for contravecy.. I mean Allah SWT Can say directly cover your hair and that would make it definitive, but He chose not to say this and leave it open for Muslim interpretations… I mean in the Ayat that you indicated, it states clearly to cover the bossom, but there is not one Ayat in the whole Quran that says cover your hair. The only women who were directly ordered to cover are the women of Alrasoul SA3WS so people know who they are… God could very easily have said All muslim woman cover your hair.. but He chose not to.
2- I agree with you on the topic that islam Endorsed Hijab and did not invent it… but we have to remember something very important, in our culture men also cover their hair with "7ata" or "Kufieh", or "Shmagh" and as you said this gives an indication of nobility. This is because of the hot weather in our area…and although the Quraan did not say cover your hair for men or women, our traditions indicated this and it became a symbol of Islam… actually historical evidence says that Hijab was imposed on women in Omar bin il Khatab time, and in Christianity by Saint Paul. Please correct me if I am wrong.
3- I also agree Hijab became a symbol of islam, and many women around the world wear the hijab as defiance to the hypocracy of the world or defiance to their position in their countries of immigration… such as Turks in Germany or North Africans in France rather than to comply to the rules of Isalm… Many of the turks i have met would be wearing so much make up and very sexy clothing but still cover their heads, the same i have seen in my university in Jordan, and i saw it very exagerated in Saudi! and the same all over the world. Obviously i am not to generalize, but this attitude makes me a bit afraid that even us muslims use Islam for different reasons and not always the right reasons….
I agree with some of your statements and this is indeed a great post, however I must refute Madas last statement. True wearing the Hijab is a choice and that choice belongs to each individual who bears that right. Whether she decides to wear makeup or what others may find as seductive clothing along with it, is not for other individuals to judge. Regardless of our fears. We as human beings are to take responsibility for ourselves, each doing as best we can with our level of consciousness. We should be mindful of others and their choices even if we do not agree. With that said I also believe that throughout time the Hijab has and will continue to take on many roles and many faces. Whether it is in the fashion sense or with various religious interpretations. I think that is the natural law of things. They evolve and change with time as well as with and without scrutiny. There is no doubt the history behind wearing the veil exists but where it will be in the future has yet to come.
Madas, I've been thinking about that Aya myself but tell you what, forget about the so called controversary and forget also about the Ijma3 of Muslim schoolars on that women should cover their hair, everytime I think about it I reach to the same conclusion, common sense says we need hijab don't you think?
I just finished reading a book titled "Conference of the Books: the Search for Beauty in Islam", its not about hijab, but it has some relevant information, I think its worth the read, if not for the content in it, for improving our english language.
I don't think hijab is a must or God's orders. Modesty is, hijab is not. Why? I think you have to do the research on your own! I will be happy providing some insights.
Regards,
Maraya
Just came accross your blog and I think its very good, keep up the good work.
Great post Haitham. Lots or work put together for that one. It is interesting that the hijab is one of the things in Islam that really is left up to the woman 100%. There is no punishment in The Qur'an or hadith listed for women who do not wear it.
My wife does not wear the hijab, although she knews she should. When she lived in Saudi she wore the niqab because if she didnt she would be harassed by the men or the mutawa. Interesting to note that the religious police were just as likely to give you their phone number than punish you for not covering right. Not very religious at all.
Islam is all about intention. If women are forced to cover and do not do so of their own choice, they get no reward for doing so. Look at Saudi Arabia. They are forced to cover, yet the seond they leave Saudi airspace on the plane they loose the niqab and emerge in the latest fashionable miniskirt or skin tight dress.
abusinan.blogspot.com
SC, can you please explain the common sense? Just out of curiousity…
SC, I have thought a lot about this topic for years actually, I am a very modest person naturally in the way I dress,I am not comfortable otherwise, maybe it is because of growing up in the middle east, where we have no choice BUT to be modest. My idea of wearing the hijab is to divert attention, but this differs from one culture to other. Wearing the hijab in one culture makes people look at you with respect, so they won't look at you, and in other cultures makes people look at you with fascination, or surprise, or whatever…which causes people to stare at you.. I remember once in a city in Europe.. there was one lady who was wearing the hijab, and every single person in that city knew who she is and where she lives, and everything about her… and it made me feel trully sad.
SC, I have thought a lot about this topic for years actually, I am a very modest person naturally in the way I dress,I am not comfortable otherwise, maybe it is because of growing up in the middle east, where we have no choice BUT to be modest. My idea of wearing the hijab is to divert attention, but this differs from one culture to other. Wearing the hijab in one culture makes people look at you with respect, so they won't look at you, and in other cultures makes people look at you with fascination, or surprise, or whatever…which causes people to stare at you.. I remember once in a city in Europe.. there was one lady who was wearing the hijab, and every single person in that city knew who she is and where she lives, and everything about her… and it made me feel trully sad. Anyway, this is a matter of belief, and each person is responsible for their own beliefs.
I think it is important to note that not everyone who wears hijab is modest. We have seen women here wearing hijab and skin tight jeans, or hijab with cleavage showing. We were at a halal shop here once and saw a beautiful woman, Khaleji, wearing a very colourful hijab/abaya, her face very made up, and perfume that could have been smelled in the business next door.
Of course you then have what I call the hijab "nuss-nuss"(half and half) because it is hijab, and it isnt. The hair is sticking out of the back, out of the front, ears with earrings are showing. Often this is a person wearing the hijab more out of culture than religion.
None of the above is modest and none of it, I would think, conforms with Islamic teachings. My wife, who doesnt wear hijab, is much more modest in her manner of dress than many women who wear hijab.
Haitham, wonderful wonderful post, thanks a lot. I’ll cross-post it coz it’s worth the read and it’s exactly what many were asking about and I used to reply to each one on their own blog, but this is way much better :)
A quick reply to our friends’ comments up there:
Roba: the misapplication of people results in forming some kind of tradition that complicates our lifestyle, and this is what gives Islam and its rules a bad name. Islam is against force & complications, it is meant to make life easier and simpler (deen yosr) not (deen 3osr).
Mariam: many things were provided clearly in Quran but were not stated as orders because Islam is a religion that provokes thinking and choosing taking the difference in time and surrounding. Concerning Hijab, the following ayah clearly states that a woman must wear a hijab:, “….and that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands…" (Qur'an 24:30-31)
Which means: the head covers should be drawn so as to cover the hair, the neck and the bosom. In other words Hijab is not a choice but a must, yet what’s left to be a choice is the style of hijab. There is no fixed standard as to the style of dress or type of clothing to wear, as long as it meets the following requirements: covering everything but the face and hands; looseness; thickness (not to show the body); not flashy; modesty; and be feminine.
If the hijab doesn’t meet all these requirements it is no hijab no matter what, which brings me to the comment of Abu Sinan as well, the application of some girls doesn’t mean this is hijab. Hijab must meet all requirements.
As for SC, I totally agree with her, although I -unfortunately- do not have the courage and strength to take the step of wearing hijab, but I hope I will soon, and I’m pro hijab with all my heart.
In our time men are on the hunt for girls, mostly judging by looks, who’s hot, who’s sexy…etc, and women are on the hunt for men, both driven by desire, and both being slaves for how they look to satisfy others. Even when a woman says: I want to look good for myself, she’s lying, she does it to impress, and by impressing she feels good about herself.
Hijab doesn’t forbid pleasure, but it offers pleasure in the right relationship and right track. Hijab doesn’t make women weaker but stronger and forces others to look at her inside and respect her mind. No matter how hard people try to prove that a woman can make men listen to her without focusing on her looks, don’t believe them .
There’s nothing better than a clean society with the right kind of freedom that offers respect to each member.
Interesting discussion!
madas said: I mean in the Ayat that you indicated, it states clearly to cover the bossom, but there is not one Ayat in the whole Quran that says cover your hair.
I agree. But lets read this Aya again:
"…that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands…"
Now, it looks we all concentrated on the "veils over their bosoms" part, but we missed one part before, which is "that they should not display their beauty", and we missed one part after, which is "and not display their beauty." See the original text in Arabic (I've added it above).
Now, my question (and I'm not trying to draw anyone to a conclusion), should the hair be considered as part of the woman's beauty? If Yes, then it should be covered. If not, then it's not necessary to cover the it. Don't you agree?
The same goes to all other parts of the body! We should ask, does it reveal some part of the woman beauty? If yes, cover it. If No, don't cover it.
Do I sound like a sheikh today :-D
The only reason the bossom was specifically mention is that in the Middle East at the time of the revelation there was a custom of keeping the breasts bear. Those specific words were meant to address that reality.
As to the hair, as a man I will tell you that a woman's hair is one of the most attractive things about her.
I thought so too ;-)
Exactly my point… it is a personal matter of taste and interpretation, you consider woman's hair is the most beautiful feature in her, i consider her face is… other people my consider other parts of her body… God left this for us to decide on and gave us the choice, and each person choses what is good for them. I dont want to go into this contraversial discussion, because eventually people do not change their beliefs so easily… I believe in one thing though, Quran is good for all times and all people… and for it to be good for all people, people have to be comfortabe with their own faith and their own way of worshiping God. because no matter what, no matter how good people know you… only God knows why people make their specific choices. and as it is said "kul wa7ad 3ala Dinoh Allah yi3eenoh" with this thought I leave you with God.
madas, I agree with the part of choice, but don't agree with part where you say "you consider woman’s hair is the most beautiful feature in her."
I see this part as a matter of controversial discussion because of the fact that the Aya is saying "zenatahuna" (which is translated as beauty).
Now, there is two parts:
1. "should not display their beauty." Every part of the human body is a beauty by itself. If it was not taken care of, that's an exception, not the rule. Therefore, it means that God is asking woman to cover their beauty, regardless.
2. "except what ordinarily appear thereof." The face, unless a woman choice to cover it (Niqap). But "ordinarily" in the Arabic version means what is usually appearing, which I understand as what is usually needed to "appear" like the face, but not the hair.
So, "beauty" in the Aya is not a personal matter of taste and interpretation anymore.
I hope I cleared my point?
BTW, I'm not trying to change anyone's beliefs. Just trying to understand the two sides of the story!
PS. For the one who asked me by email if my wife wears Hijab, Yes she does. No I didn't force her, she was like that even before we got married. She told me that that was her choice, and I respect that. On the other hand, she is a better Muslim than me, if you know what I mean ;-)
why the hijab
http://research.umbc.edu/eol/MA/index/number3/nieuwkerk/karin_4.htm
Classic Islam defines the wifely duties in terms of women's obligation to provide sex over and above their obligation to reproduce and mother (2). Women cannot refuse to perform the conjugal duty (Naamane-Guessous 1990: 194) (3). They should fulfill this duty so as to prevent men from committing illicit intercourse. Yet, this also protects themselves against their husbands marrying a second wife. Only women who know how to please their husbands are capable of assuring their attention and support.
The powerlessness of women can potentially be inverted if they manage to seduce and ensnare men. Orthodox scholars acknowledge this danger and since men are primarily created to worship God, they warn against female seduction and particularly against attachment to women. God requires the believer's total love and all of his capacity for emotional attachment: "Emotional attachment divides man's heart, and Allah hath not created man with two hearts within his body" (Quran Surah II: 165).
Mernissi argues that implicitly in the religious discourse women are feared for their disruptive potentials. Women are capable of creating fitna (4) chaos provoked by sexual disorder (Mernissi 1975: 4). According to the implicit religious discourse, both sexes have an active sexual nature and female desires should be gratified as well. If women are not sexually satisfied they create fitna by enticing other men than their husbands. Hence: "The virtue of the woman is a man's duty. And the man should increase or decrease sexual intercourse with the woman according to her needs so as to secure her virtue" (al-Ghazali in Mernissi 1975).
The need to satisfy the female desire and the difficulties men have in fulfilling this duty is the topic of the erotic discourse (Sabbah 1984). The erotic discourse is an extension of the implicit theory and deals with female desireas mirrored in men's thought. It is an attempt by religious scholars to counsel the believer in the righteous conduct towards sexual desire. The orthodox discourse mainly focusses on the strong male desire, the implicit theory recognizes the active sexuality of both sexes, and the erotic discourse is chiefly centered on the aggressive nature of female passion. Female desire is active in the implicit theory, but it becomes aggressive and threatening in the erotic discourse. In the erotic discourse there is thus a reversal of roles. Men are impotent and weak whereas women's passion is insatiable. They resort to cunning, qaid, in order to reach their sexual gratification. Yet, despite the difference between these constructions of gender and sexuality, it is striking that they converge in their definition of women as primarily sexual beings. The female body is highly sexualised. Whether the female body should be confined and covered, or unleashes its aggressive sexuality, in both cases the sexual aspect of the female body is cardinal (5). Women cannot refuse to perform the conjugal duty (Naamane-Guessous 1990: 194) Whether women passively try to keep their legal husband's attention through being desirable or actively seduce other men, in both cases their sexual dimension is central. In both discourses the female body is reduced to the sexual aspects.
………….
its actually a very perverted view of women, seen a moving vagina
Yep getting really interesting, well again I guess no one got my point, in the ayah, the word "khomorehenna" , i.e. veils, and veil is what is worn to cover the head including the hair, in some cases even the face, but since there came a hadith showing that the face should not be covered, we know the veil in the ayah basically stands for the head & hair & bosom. Let's remember that language plays a big role in Quran, and the vocabulary used is a part of the meaning.
You know the problem is the fact that many go for an interpretation that suits their own interest and liking, I don't mean people here in this discussion but in real life, I used to do that too, but whoever wants to really see the real meaning of the ayah will have no problem understanding it.
Aysha, I agree that women could be a source of sexual chaos in certain situations, but Islam stressed the fact that men are an equal source of chaos just like men, and that's why both have to follow certain rules in their lifestyle and the way they're dressed.
Again, Hijab is for both men and women, both have their own rules to follow, both are told to follow these rules to guarantee protection for both in the first place and for society as well. It's not meant to be a restriction, nor a complication, but a means of having comfort and protection, reflecting modesty and cleanliness. This is what hijab (for both men and women) is all about.
And hey Haitham, you're not sounding like a sheikh, being close to your religion, whatever it was, knowing it well, and sticking to it is one of the most wonderful and impressive things in life :)
Roba, anything in a woman will drive men crazy especially hair. We're no angels, men are no angels. Even if we're going to ignore what Islam has said about the relationship between men and women in which a woman's voice might drive men crazy and move their desires, by looking at things around me I can see how everything else didn't work! man's rules on earth did not prevent adultery and rape, men (and also women to be fair) are turning into sex addicts, not to mention sexually frustrated individuals. You might say well who said those who wear hijab are protected? and I have to agree with you they are not fully protected due to the environment we live in, in which not all women wear decent clothes to start with, early marriage is not possible, sex appeals are everywhere…etc
But in the end, we're held responsible for what we do individually, you cover your hair and wear proper clothes, talk in low some-what firm tone so that you'll be doing your best.
Eman, I loved what you said about distraction and not to focus on looks and appearance. This is one good reason why I think women need to wear hijab. Don't we women say we want men to look at our minds first?
Added a poll at the end of the post. The objective is not to reach a conclusion or changes someone’s belief as said before, but just to see what does the majority thinks?
Update: Poll closed. Results end of post…
Excellent article Haithem. I think the Quraan verse is very clear specially "…so that they should be known and not molested"(33:59) it answer what kind of hijab is good for women.
There is many hadith from Sunnah too like :
It was narrated from Ayshah Umm Al-momeneen that Asmaa, the dauther of Abi-Bakr Al-seddeeq appeared to the prophet Muhammed PBUH, wearing a thin cloth, he declined to see her (moved his head), and said " O Asmaa, when the woman reached the menstruation age, it is not accepted to see something of her, except this and this " .. and He indicated to his face and hand , recorded by Abu-dawod, in Nail Al-awatar (98/6 Al-bany Al-Halaby)..
There is another one maybe someone can help me to remember it, talking about Ayshah Umm Al-momeneen doing hajj with the prophet (PBUH) and she said that when a non-mohrem come near them she cover her face.
I think the origin of many idiologies that refuse Veil (Hijab) came from wrong beliefs that began with pictures showing Adam and Eve nude (just image google for Adam and Eve)! While Quraan explained that they were not :
(Surah Ta-Ha – verse 121)"Then they both ate of the tree, and so their private parts appeared to them, and they began to stick on themselves the leaves from Paradise for their covering…"
hijab, from the Islamic view, has no negative effects at all against the freedom of woman nor her general movement no in her participation in progress and making life around her active. It gives woman her personality and raises her position in society.
People deal with a modest woman, dressed in Islamic hijab from the point of view that she is a human being. For a woman without hijab, people generally deal with her from the point of view that she is a human being but through her femininity and through what she stirs up in men by her exposed body. Therefore, Islamic hijab will remain a weapon against affliction, distress, fluidity and abuse.
Haitham Its better if you added in the poll "Hijab for muslim woman is …" :) Since generally its always a choice between heaven and hell (we can't say MUST for a non muslim).
I'd like to add a bit of context from the Christian scriptures, if you don't mind. These verses are instruction for proper worship in a church setting, not life in general. The verses from 1 Cor. continue "Judge among yourselves. Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?…if a woman has long hair it is a glory to her, FOR HER HAIR IS GIVEN TO HER AS A COVERING. But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God." Just a point.
It may seem that the OT biblical take on the rape of a virgin is lax, but the rape of a married woman (or betrothed woman who called for help) was always punishable with death. If a virgin girl was foolish enough to go where she was unprotected – knowing the consequences – marrying her abuser could keep her from the more severe consequences of foolishness. Sounds like the root of honor killing was in Judaism.
St. Paul instructs women's character not to be known by adornment, but by good works. IMHO women of East and West have gone way beyond what should be acceptable public outer wear. We have an obligation to dress in way that doesn't make men think "sex" but so all can enjoy the beauty of God's creation in women without having to possess her sexually. But it doesn't mean we have to wear a hijab. I think the hijab actually stimulates men to wonder what is underneath, especially, as some have mentioned, when hair is teasingly left out, perfume is choking others, and make-up is extreme. Modesty (and seductiveness) is an attitude more than clothing.
Remember in the stats you quoted that "rape" in the West isn't defined by bodice-ripping violence. It can cover semi-consensual sex that a girl doesn't really want but can't be bothered to stop the guy. Just having a person make sexual comments can be defined as "abuse". There are different boundries in the West. I feel much more "abused" here than in the West. The staring, the rude comments, the groping, (I've even had guys run up and take my picture, what is that???) even if I cover my hair and wear a hijab (I have tried it, even tho a Christian – it attracts MORE attention). I can't wear anything on my face but a frown for fear of appearing inviting.
I'd say you men have an obligation to stop sexualizing women who aren't your wives as much as women do to dress against the cultural norm of today. Jesus Christ said that to lust after a woman in your heart makes you just as guilty of adultery as the act. Maybe a topic for another day.
Thanks Haitham for your interesting posts. This is just another good example.
I have to admit I didn't place my vote, because I don't think of it as a "Must" nor a "Choice", I would rather say it is an "Attitude" or more of a "Lifestyle".
Wearing the veil itself, is just a phase that each one is expected to reach at a different stage in his/her life.
Hijab should start from the inside, and it would then reflect on the outside gradually, until the person reaches the stage where he/she would want to wear more modest clothes.
Faith should start from the inside and then reflect on the outside.
If you do it the other way round, you are most likely to offend your religion by giving a bad image of it.
kinzi,
Thank for the comment. One quick note though. I wonder which Bible version you are reading from. You mentioned the verse that asks the question “…Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?” but you didn’t continue the next verses that answers that question. Anyway, let’s read three different version of the bible and pay a close look at the context of each (source of Bible(s) from http://www.bibleontheweb.com/):
King James Ver reads:
For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. 8 For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. 9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. 10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels. 11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. 12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God. 13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? 14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. 16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God. 17
King James Revised Std. Ver reads:
For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8 (For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. 9 Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.) 10 That is why a woman ought to have a veil on her head, because of the angels. 11 (Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man nor man of woman; 12 for as woman was made from man, so man is now born of woman. And all things are from God.) 13 Judge for yourselves; is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14 Does not nature itself teach you that for a man to wear long hair is degrading to him, 15 but if a woman has long hair, it is her pride? For her hair is given to her for a covering. 16 If any one is disposed to be contentious, we recognize no other practice, nor do the churches of God. 17
Darby Ver. reads:
For man indeed ought not to have his head covered, being God's image and glory; but woman is man's glory. 8 For man is not of woman, but woman of man. 9 For also man was not created for the sake of the woman, but woman for the sake of the man. 10 Therefore ought the woman to have authority on her head, on account of the angels. 11 However, neither [is] woman without man, nor man without woman, in [the] Lord. 12 For as the woman [is] of the man, so also [is] the man by the woman, but all things of God. 13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman should pray to God uncovered? 14 Does not even nature itself teach you, that man, if he have long hair, it is a dishonour to him? 15 But woman, if she have long hair, [it is] glory to her; for the long hair is given [to her] in lieu of a veil. 16 But if any one think to be contentious, *we* have no such custom, nor the assemblies of God. 17
Reading these verses very closely, it compares the hair with the veil, not as a replacement of the veil. As it say’s, it is shame on man to cover his head (in case he has a long hair), but not for a woman. Her hair is a pride that covers her head, just like the veil that covers the woman head.
…will add my comments to the other parts later today!
I loved the debate about hijab and the many opinions that were expressed with respect to those who disagreed. I am writing my master's thesis about the symbolism attached to hijab in Morocco and Algeria, post-independence. I agree that there are religious roots to hijab, and that its actual physical manifestation tends to vary considerably based on culture. I also agree that the symbol is not always indicative of the religous significance as in the case of those who wear hijab, but do not dress modestly otherwise. Or those who wear hijab but may not necessarily be chaste. Lots of interesting things to think about! thanks!
Well, Haithim, good for you! I read New King James, a little easier to get around the English. I left those verses out as my kids were clammering for lunch and my point was made in the first and last – that the whole topic was for church, not life. I'll get out my commentary and start looking more closely; it has been a controversial topic. (BTW, I always write with a positive attitude, so don't read what I write with sarcasm or anger colored in. Also, I'm on a plane in a acouple hours, so it'll be a couple days before I can respond to what you write. Blessings!)
Thank you kinzi.
There is not sarcasm or anger here. It is pleasure to discuss such topics with open mind.
Have a safe trip!
I think your article is very written. One notice: please we do not say Koran says. Allah says.
Quran does not speak. Quran is Kalamo Allah.
Anyway. Your article is very nice.
This is a wonderful, wonderful post mashallah. I loved reading every bit of it and I agree with everything you said 100%..keep writing like this, the world needs more posts like this one! Thanks again…
Hi
Was just wondering y the old lady has to wear hijab if it is a sexual thing.The baldness,grey & falling hair still attractive.The sagging bosoms & the wrinkled face still attractive to seduce a man.Well out of habit I suppose.Old habits die very hard.She too runs to the back door to hide from the stranger & shouts at stranger males who stares at her.
Actually, older ladies are not required to wear hijab. Most do so out of habit.
Sorry! What did you say Abu Sinan? Where did you bring that statement from? I've never heard of such thing!
I have heard that from many sources, both here and the Middle East, although not "religious sources," so it certainly could be wrong.
Hi Haithim, back again. So, just so reiterate my point, is that that context was for covering of hair for purpose of prayer, not modesty nor everyday attire. When I come to God in prayer, on my knees in submission, my hair covers my face. Since the first act of prayer for us as Christians is adoration, then confession, after that can I lift my face, uncovered and cleansed to see my Saviour's face without shame.
Women need to much more careful in wearing an internal hijab, as one mentioned above. A heart that is humble,pure and choosing not to seduce with inner attitudes will have a body clothed appropriately. The Bible talks about being clothed with humility.
So what about a man's responsibility? I would think that mental self-control is a large part of every man's personal jihad. My husband has a harder time with his thought life here in Jordan than in the US because a seductive spirit (even those wearing a hijab!)just reeks from so many young women! The Bible speaks much more often and strongly of men's minds than it does of women's clothes. And Jesus said that if a man looks upon a women desiring her, he is guilty of adultery. Pretty strong words…maybe look that one up and write about it?
Men are required to lower their eyes and avert their gaze. Interesting to note that in one of the oldest Christian communities in the world, Ethiopia, women are required to wear hijab in church and are not even allowed in the church during their menses.
But do they? A controlled mind, focused on the characteristics of God, can handle having eye-contact and relationship with the opposite sex without sexualizing.
I'll have to learn more about the Ethiopians, but it wasn't so among the Copts, another ancient community. The community that Jesus walked among had public and private meetings where women were present and participants in serving.
well abu sinan these women you are talkin about are called sisters they wear a scarf that is much like a hejab thats beacuse they are really religous and they cant get married or have kids,so y ai am new here hope u guys visit my blog and write something,and visit my websit too.salam 4 all.
my website is paligurl.tripod.com,make sure you visit it i just made it new.
dear brother n sistrs hijab is A MUST…!!
no one can say tht hijab is a choice..ya if a person hates islaam then afcourse he is the one to say so..plzz stop spreading such dagerous ideas n dont let the devil mislead us..plzz if u want to preach islaam then 1st u must learn auhtientic things ..n say acording the quraan n sunnah..only then ull b able to preach islaam in the right way..
Dont tell me this.Man definetly looks at at womens chest for sure.
So how much the mind can control depends.Harmones & stuff especialy when one is at teens.
Moreover y does a women have a low cut or openings at the prompt places.Well………
better to be dressed modestly.
Zaratul, God is big enough to help a man control his eyes and mind. It is just that very few choose to ask His assistance. He desires purity in both sexes.
How about remembering that this immodestly dressed girl is God's precious creation, and someone else's daughter and sister? Have you read the ancient wisdom of King Solomon in Proverbs? There is MUCH written about how to avoid women who show disrespect to men in dressing immodestly.
I have found no matter how modestly I dress (even with a scarf and no skin showing but hands and feet, nothing stops the leering looks. And I am old enough to be a grandmother in your culture. So I implore you as xaalto, seek the power of God. Just so you know, I often approach young girls in a friendly way and ask them to change their habits of dress
Well,tats the reason God ask the women to cover her bosom.Have u heard the proverb prevention better than cure.So do women want to give a chance in the first place by dressing immodestly.There r people in this world a high percentage who are hypocrites.So everybody is not going to think hey,she is someones daughter.I wont look at her Bosom but up there in the sky & read verses in the scriptures to divert my attention.
I am 100% sure that leering looks certainly less compared to when women dress provacatively.By the way its a good job that u r approaching young girls & asking them to change their dress habits.Just out of cuirosity wat was the response.
A very well-researched piece on the veil in Islam and in general.
I have to say that I myself do not believe that it is compulsory for Muslim women to wear the veil, yet I do not criticize nor discriminate against any who choose to do so.
I congratulate you on your clear, concise and organized thought and the manner through which you present it.
I also strongly belief that any edict, of any religion, should not be forced upon the people… even if it is a "fard". Islam, and other heavenly religions, have given people the choice between "right" and "wrong". It is not our place to judge and sentence them. (Im not saying you or anyone else here has done that, just sharing my view.)
Kudos to you for an amazing piece.
Zaratul, since in this culture men are the source of authority, I believe the responsibility rests with men first.
In response, the young girls respond very graciously. I usually ask them what there mothers and fathers think, and whatever holy book they ascribe to says. Then I appeal to that authority structure and ask them to honor those in authority over them. I ask them if they would like to marry someday, and that out of respect for that future husband, to cover up a bit (and that men they attract with their body will not make the best husbands, that bodies get bigger later and he may not be faithful). I also tell them that they are much too valuable to be displayed so completely, they are worth more than they think they are. sometimes I ask them if they think their role models on TV and music have happy lives, really.
I am not as gentle talking with young men who leer.
Kinzi,It is not what u believe, but what the belief u belive says & r u following it as simple as that.Its not only for women but for men too.Those who leer should be punished & those who flaunt should be punished as well.The responsibility is on both genders in the eyes of GOd.GOD knows best.
Amen, God always knows an does what is best, but it was He who put women under the authority of men. Fathers and mothers are allowing their daughters to leave the home dressed like this. Hopefully both leerers and flaunters will receive correction and avoid punishment.
good article , keep going ,but i just wanna add one thing
there is no choice in these kind of orders,hjab, drinking … they were very clear in quran, sunnah and we must believe it and take it without dicuss it
Hi. I'm Catholic, went to Catholic school. I never met Muslim people until recently. I heard how many people misinterpret the Holy Koran, that women are subjects of men, and that is why they wear the hijab. I guess I associated the hijab with that, and that is why I have not given it as much respect as it deserves. It was not until I got cat-called, which never happens, especially when wearing long, loose clothes, that I understood why someone would choose to wear the hijab. I belive that women should cover up in general, I mean, no tight clothes, no tank tops, at least short sleeves, etc. I don't know, maybe it's how I view things, but I don't entirely respect the hijab, because I rarely see Muslim men cover their hair. If women cover themselves so men cannot see them, then what is to prevent women from looking at a man's hair? I would respect the hijab entirely if both men and women in America covered themselves. I like your site. It offers so many options and views. I learned in school that in in Middle Eastern cultures, the hair is considered part of appeal. Which is why women, especially in the ancient days covered their hair, which then extended to Europe and colonial America. It's good you noted the rabbinic tradition, but I just wanted to know which Bible did you use for the quote from Corinthians. I don't know if you know, but christian sects have different versions, each written differently. Like the Catholic New American Bible and the Protestant King James Version.
Oh, after the Second Vatican Council in I think 1972, Catholic women no longer had to cover their hair in Church. But it is tradition for women to cover their hair when having an audience with the Pope, for he is the Vicar of Christ. I know there are photos of Jackie Kennedy wearing one. I think it;s called a patina, or something that sounds like it. Also, if you saw Pope John Paul II's funeral mass, you saw all the important women in the first rows of the mass with black headscarves.
This Muslim man in a magazine article said that his masjid in America bars women from using the ground floor, because men are easily tempted by women. That's so false, and a bad jsutification for hijab & women having to be in a different location to praise God. I just have this question, a rhetorical one: If men are so easily tempted by women, as he says, then why do women do as they are told? Would it be the opposite then, men covering up & women delegating men where to sit, to use the gorund floor and men using the balcony?
Krisztina, Christian sects do use different 'versions'of the Bible but they are only different translations of idioms that the meaning would be lost if done word for word. Those who translated the King James lacked the bonus of our centuries'archaeological discoveries that confirm and verify and even clarify terms that were not as clear in 1600.
They are all based on the same ancient manuscripts, which have very little variation. If you read them side by side, you will see this. The Catholic Bible includes the Apocrypha, which were Jewish writings that were not considered part of the Hebrew Bible by Jews nor the canon of Scripture by the early church fathers (which is the same reason why many so called 'gospels' such as are mentioned in the "Da Vinci Code" were never included, as they didn't meet the stringent critia necessary).
Hope you have as much fun on this blog as I do!
thnk you for writing this post. this is one issue around which there is much confusion and even more emotionality.
congratualtions!
i will add a link to this post on a very short comment that i wrote on the same issue today.
Very interesting.
To sum it up: civilisation, culture, education, knowledge, self respect and self restraint are not enough to keep us from doing something so trivial as to respect other human bodies. God knows that perfectly well, that 98% of human biology is basically identical to that of Apes, that the internal forces induced by the biological impulses render personal freedom irrelevant.
So instead of going into the trouble to re-program humans, to "design" them different from apes in the first place … why not simply retain the animal impulses verbatim and make it so much more likely for them to win over personal freedom and choice.
Nice. It's probably true. But what is the take home message here?
I'm Catholic, and I cover at least some parts of my hair, like a scarf tied around my bun. I was thinking of covering my hair altogether when I'm married, like the hijab, but I think I might offend Muslims, because just by covering my bun, people already think I'm a Muslima. What do ya'll think? I want to protect & respect myself, but I do not want to offend anyone in doing so. Also, is it a married woman thing to wear an abaya in America? It's like I always see older women who have children wearing them. Salaam.
Krisztina, wearing scarf does not offend anyone, not even Muslim. It is your right to choose what you wear.
As for Abaya in America or outside America, it has nothing to do with being married or not. Maybe they are just trying to be idol for their kids, and practice some of the Muslims traditions to teach it to their kids and family.
Krisztina,
Eastern Orthodox all over the world cover there hair, from the Slavic countries of Eastern Europe to those in East African nations like Ethiopia. You wouldnt offend us Muslims, you'd certainly impress more than a few of us. Look at the virgin Mary at any nativity scene this Christmas season……looks like hijab she is wearing eh?
Thanks. Next I have a dumb question. I saw some hijab stores on-line, and I know I can get the cloth myself from fabric stores, but is there any actual store that specializes in scarves?
There are a bunch online, google it. I cannot say which are better than the rest. Depending on where you live there mihgt be some stores right near you where you can go to.
See our extreme opinion on women wearing headscarfs :
http://www.ultrafeel.tv
Maraya, how may SORA of Quraan you know to decide hijab is not must?????
abu Sinan,which quraan says older ladies are not required to wear hijab? Sure not this in our hands.
Asalamu Alaykum to All!
Pay attention to the verbage used in the Koran by Allah(swt) It tells RasoolAllah(sawas) Tell the BELIEVING women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms….” (24:30,31).
Allah(swt) has not addressed that The Unbelieving women cover. Now I do realize that what has been discussed in this Blog is particularly what constitutes covering and who should cover, why we should cover and such. But this discussion is really for those who have complete knowledge of Koran to decide.
For instance with the whole thing about Older women who are passed their time of childbearing and beauty do not have to cover, Allah(swt) clearly says "But it is best that they cover" Why is it best that they cover? To be leaders of the youth in their older age of wisdom? to keep the way of women consistent throughout all age groups? we do not have all the answers!
But what we do know is that Allah(Swt) has stipulated that hijab is for the believing men and women alike. So what does believing infer? Belief in the Koran has been described as belief in the seen and unseen. Therefore as a believer we believe that their are commands from our Creator (the one who knows us better than we know ourselves) and to observe these commands both spiritually and physically is divine.
So I do not think the choice is in observing hijab, the choice is in Believing or not. If you dont believe dont follow the command. But should you choose to believe follow the command 100% This is submission to your creator Allah(swt)
And remember with every step and action you do, do it with the intention of seeking nearness to Allah(swt) so that our actions are not done in vain
I wasn't planning on getting involved in this discussion since I am not Muslim. But I think I found the passages in question (this is from the N.J. Dawood translation):
"It shall be no offense for old spinsters who have no hope of marriage to discard their cloaks without revealing their adornments." This is followed by a seemingly contradictory sentence: "Better if they do not discard them." (I suppose the idea is no one's perfect and only God can judge…)
This is a follow-up to the earlier passage "Enjoin believing women…to cover their adornments (except such as are normally displayed); to draw their veils over their bosoms and not to reveal their finery except to their husbands…" (found in the surah "Light")
The difficulty lies in the fact that terms such as "adornments" "finery" "cloaks" are not defined…one would think a historian might be able to explain what these terms would have referred to in the 7th century…
Yeah, what are adornments, in the Qu'ran, exactly?
Beautiful blog I love it….I love Arab culture and dance, it is what I grew up with. I have been most influenced by Soraya who is a famous belly dancer of Arab orgin living in the States. I saw her dance at my cousins wedding in CT and she was incredible. Her website is: http://www.bellydancebysoraya.com She is also an Anthropologist and is married to a rich doctor. If you get the chance to see her work or study with her DO IT ladies! I love your blog Sabbah! Much love to you…Manel (CT and EGYPT)
hmmm… I'm wondering what Hijab (the topic here) has to do with belly dancing.
But anyway, welcome here, Manel.
salaam/shalom
Today, most pious Jewish women do not cover their hair except in the synagogue.
I am a jew, who has lived in Isreal and is currently trying to become more religious. Although i am not yet married i have a high standard of modesty and often wear a hijab or some kind of scarf and/or Jilbab, mostly our of practicality and comfort. I like the Islamic style of dress and even preferr it to more traditional Orthodox Jewish styles which are often reminiscant of 18/19 centuary eastern european dress.
I would however like to correctthe above statement.
There are two main styles of hair covering for jewish women iether the wig(known as a sheital or a material head covering (includind snoods) In orthodox Judaism a married women will ALWAYS cover her hair in public and often in the home too. there are differant traditions and ways that this is done, what you are referring to is conservative Jewish women amoungst others who maybe married but will often only cover their hair in the synagoge in the same way that men may do with kippot(jewish scull caps)
The pious jewish women that you describe would always cover her hair – often to a small degree befor marriage as well -although uncovered hair in Judaism has come to be a sign that a women is not married(the Torah commands that only a married woman must cover her hair)- not a sighn of immodesty.
it should be noted that Judaism is diverse in its traditions and as Jews we are commanded to follow the customs of our community – hence Jews living in Iran or Jordan will often wear hijabs and Jilbabs similar to Muslims.
I would aslo like to mention that thetradition of wigs came about for two easons. The first was to stand out less and so be saved from persercution simply for being Jewish and the second was because Jewish women are commanded to cover their hair- it does not say HOW the hair must be covered – so wearing a wig is technically covering ones hair. there are many arguments against this in Judaism however and it should not be taken simply as a get out clause.
I think it is wise to mention and remember the wide range of diversity whenever refering to Jewish dress code.
Thank you, anna!
I think you last words sum it all:
Thanks for sharing…
I would just like to adress those that believe the head scarf should not be forced on women. Imagine a situation where one walks down a street past a number of covered women and then see's a beautiful women and feels desire. What was the point of the other women wearing the headscarves? Does the hijab protect those women only, or does it serve the community at large, in which case it would be useless unless unless all women abided by it. I am not saying that men must not comply with their hijabs, becuase goodness knows we are far more ignorant of it than the women are of theirs, but i am merely pointing out why all need to abide by it. However, in a non muslim state, this is different as muslims are a minority there and it is up to the woman's faith to determine whether or not she wears the hijab.
By the way, it is a great post and it gladdens my heart to see christians and jews joining in our discussion as the more i get to learn about their religions, the more I understand why islam tells us to respect them.
I would just like to apologise in advance for not quoting where i got my opinions from and I would like to acknowledge that what I have said may be wrong, particularly the part about women in a non muslim state
salaam
Learning is good. Yeah, somewhere I heard that the Virgin Mary came in a vision and warned about a time when women would dress horribly. She encouraged modest dress. Many Christian people follow Mary's example and cover themselves as much as possible. She was following tradition and Jewish law when she dressed loosely and covered her hair. We follow her as a part of tradition and modest living. I'm starting that road now and will fully cover myself when I am married. In respect for God, myself, and my husband, as a sign of devotion to God, fidelity to my husband, and for my dignity. But the Catholic Church stopped enforcing women to cover their hair in Church at the Second Vatican Council, because I heard that an covered woman was not allowed to even enter the church, so that led to a feeling of exclusion. So it's in the Bible but no longer enforced since like 1978. One thing I really like is the jelbabs on some UK Hijab site, and the jelbabs look uncredibly beautiful and modest. Not to point fingers, but the American media are destroying all sense of modesty with sex as a constant focus. It is so hard to find even remotely decent clothing. It's so bad I have to buy clothes 2 or 3 sizes larger than I normally wear. On another note, I noticed that the only Christian sect with a unified language is the Catholic Church. We've got Latin to fall back on, like the Jews have Hebrew, and the Muslims have Arabic. The other Christians have no one language that could unite them together. Look at JPII's funeral. Dozens of countries, one language. Unity rocks!
God bless you all, and have a Happy New Year. Salaam, Shalom, Pax, Peace.
Well said, Krisztina. It is your right to wear whatever you feel is modest.
Happy New Year to you too.
Here is the comment from gladwyn:
"wasn’t the idea for the head scarf for protecting the woman’s dignity as to prevent men becoming aroused by the presence of a beautiful woman? Aren’t we past the ability to control our base nature’s, so shouldn’t the headscarf be abolished? Besides the segregation of women and men was meant for the same reason and to allow men and women to pray without any distractions. I mean who ever heard of becoming aroused in a holy scantuary like a mosque??!!"
Well, tell me gladwyn, do people in the west control their base desires so effectively? If god wanted us to one day abolish the hijab, he would have clearly commincated it so it is obvious that while some of us may attain the spiritual purity to control our desires, most of us can't and even those who can face a constant battle to maintain that purity. We are, essentially, animals and this base desire called attraction and sexual intercourse is there so that we may pro create. Have we then come past procreation?
Now about arousal in a mosque, it is very possible. Not all people there are pious to the extent that they can focus in the presence of beautiful women and I have heard numerous stories from christian friends of relatives who attended church because of a 'crush' and the priest or reverand.
Krisztina, was your post a response to myne?
Abdulsalam:
Only the part of your post about how this blog promotes the discussion of religion and religious practices. Why do you ask?
I was just remembering something that happened a few months ago, almost a year ago. I wore a sweater, not tight, but it was kind of clingy, it was chenille. I wanted to see if the guys next to me noticed my sweater. Those guys I learned later on during the semester, were jerks. And it hit me: why did I feel I needed their approval. Then I learned to dress in what made me, alone, happy. Those jerks. The teacher hated them. :)
Oh, something related to what Abdulsalam said. Isn't it in the Qur'an, or maybe part of the hadith or sunnah, that a woman cover herself properly so that she cannot be accused of infidelity on her part? I don't know if I read here or somewhere else, but one of Mohammad's (PBUH's) wives was left behind and he found her with some guy, and that soon the inevitable question of what they did to bide their time sprang up. I don't know if I got that account right or if it even actually happened. But think about it. I think that plays a role in all religious practices, regardless of the specific religion. Even today, a guy who rapes a woman still can claim in court, but without a legal basis (but just to cover his ass and to ruin her reputation), that a woman dressed seductively and therefore "asked for it.' Covering up is a source of protection and honor. Think about it: a guy can't rape a fully clothed woman and claim she was asking for it. You get what I mean? Modesty protects women from such claims, especially when they are false. It protects a woman, in a sense, because she took the necessary precautions.
You all are probably sick of me writing so much here on this blog, and hopefully I will shut up soon. I have to contribute some facts to this blog and not just opinions. I'm kind of like a dead weight.
Not at all, Krisztina. Your opinion is just as important as everyone else. Please do not hesitate to say what you think is right (or wrong). After all, this space is open for productive and objective discussion when the topic is worth discussing.
Krisztina, i meant nothing by it. I just wanted to see if it was a response, thats all.
Have a good new year.
I agree wholeheartedly with you Krisztina that modesty protects women from indecent treatment. But I also believe that it plays a second role, which is keep such thoughts out of the minds of men in the first place, not just to leave them with no excuse. Thus in my mind, the hijab is gods way of keeping the community chaste, not just the individual.
In fact, if you think about it, many of gods rules in islam have dual roles, to help the individual and to help the community. If you look at the prohibition of alchohol, you will see that it not only protects an individual's health and bank balance, but it also rids the community of drunken violence and waste.
good point. :)
Oh, my last post was aimed at Abdulsalam about the duality of the veil.
On another note, I see how some people see the Christian obligation for veiling as sexist. Everyone pretty much everywhere back then treated women poorly, even other women, so keep that context in mind. The part about women being lower then men, who're lower than Jesus, who's lower than God not to emphasize the status of women compared to men, but to emphasize both man and woman's status compared to God. (Jesus is lower than God, because he is only 1/3 of God). Christians believe God has 3 parts: God almighty, Jesus (the Word made flesh) and The Holy Spirit (divine inspiration).
Here is a link about Catholic women and modest dress
http://www.latin-mass-society.org/wearmantilla.htm
This link here says that veiling in Catholic churches was never changed, but when asked when that issue came up the pope said no in 1969, so people thought that meant it was abolished when it wasn't. People accidentally got misled, the site purports
http://www.fatimafamily.org/articles/veil.html
Catholics were the largest religious group who maintained veiling in prayer up to the late 1970s.
One thing bugs me. Some non-Catholics associate Catholicism and veiling with nuns. Look at the pictures at
http://www.muhajabah.com/christianveil.htm
Nuns (not all, because some work with the poor and teach children and can wear lay(non-religious people, i.e. priests and nuns) clothing. Nuns wear veils because as nuns, they are the "brides of Christ," the bride part implying veiling.
I'm Catholic, as I've mentioned numerous times, and am willing to share information about my sect, especially as it is the first and most misunderstood sect of Christianity, and the most stereotyped. That is why I understand how Muslims in America feel. I live in NYC, which is largely Catholic, but only NYC and Boston are the 2 most heavily Catholic populated cities in the US. And I've been down south- not welcoming, only 2% of us down there. The nation stereotypes us. And when one of us wants to become a political leader, he/she's considered too religious/conservative and too dangerous to govern. When Catholicism as a whole is moderate and its message quite liberal. Jesus advocated a socialist world, not the power hungry kind, but the giving, selfless kind. Only 1 Catholic president–portrayed as a potential "puppet to the Pope"—bullshit excuse. The pope is considered a threat to democracy, what a lie. But my point is, I know somewhat how Muslims feel. My people are jeered at as well, but not to the extent that Muslims are treated. My prayers are with you all, in the hopes of a more tolerant world.
I am a british citizen who became a muslim at the age of 15 years. I started wearing the hijab when I moved to Dubai over 12 years ago. The hijab comes in such beautiful colours and designs that it can be seen as a wonderful fashion accessory, especially in Kuwait where I lived for the past 2 1/2 years. I love wearing the hijab especially when I know that I am doing the right thing by my religion. During my time in Dubai I worked in recruitment and came across many clients who would not employ females wearing hijab( some of these clients were also muslim).After moving to Dubai I held a managerial position which involved attending many meetings and I can honestly say the hijab was warmly welcomed especially amongst the local Kuwait nationals.I have just relocated to Bahrain and have attended meetings and the hijab is acceptable. Dubai may be emoving forward with its technology but why are some of these companies so afraid to employ veiled women.
Hello all
Interesting post you have here…first let me begin by saying that I am not sure where the stats about Canada came from but none are true or accurate in any way.
Having said this I do believe that many Muslim women wear a Hijab because of community pressure.
You also say that it is not a sign of oppression but a form of protection…that is an interesting argument; in most Muslim countries a woman walking outside with out a hijab can be beaten.
As for protection, well if the only reason a woman must wear a hijab is to be protected from men who have no respect, or self control then that is in itself a form of oppression, since women are punished for some men’s weakness. I believe that instead of telling women they have to cover their hair and even their faces, maybe we should work harder to stop men who would do them harm from behaving in such a savage way, may be we should cover the men’s eyes so they can not see.
But of course that is not he easy way, it is simply easier to tell a woman that it is gods will…..
The last point I would like to make is this….Judaism began more than 5000years ago , Christianity over 2000years, Islam over 1400 years ago don't you think that the cultures were completely deferent then? Where a woman’s hair was viewed as a sexual object? Should we not move on and progress? (and I do not mean that we should all walk around like Britney Speers) but shouldn't we take the message from the religion and stop trying to live in the past…It is amazing to me that people want to continue to live as those past cultures did. I wonder if the Prophet was here today would he have asked women to cover themselves. Or men to wear turbines or would he have worn a suit?
I think we have to be really careful in trying to determine what god wants and what is simply a cultural tradition, and time period.
Sabbah el fol! Interesting weblog, especially for people who like Arabic culture. I took Arabic and Egyptian language as side-subjects in university in Holland (my major being history) because I love Arabic literature and have many Lebanese and Egyptian friends.
As for the covering of the head among Christians. It is inapt in this case to mention Paul who never met Jesus during his preaching-life and converted only after Jesus had already been crucified. Unlike the gospels, Paul’s writings could not quote Jesus directly. This is why today he is not considered an original disciple by many Christians. His work cannot have the same authority as the gospels of (or which are ascribed to) Matthew, Mark, Luke and John; and neither as the gospels of Thomas and Mary Magdalena which have been discarded by the early church-officials because they did not match their hierarchical and patriarchal thinking. The patriarchal views of these early church-officials reflected the mores of the Middle East and Roman Empire of the first centuries AD. Jesus’ teaching and conduct however did in no way discriminate women. Both Mary Magdalena, one of the original disciples, and his mother Mary(am) had important influence on him. However, the ‘churchfather’ Tertullian (Tertullianus) who you cite as well, had absolutely no authority to make statements in Jesus’ name because he lived nearly two centuries later. Tertullians statements on covering the head thus fully reflect his own personal ideas.
As for the hijab and Muslim-women. What I miss in the present-day discussion is that in hot climates it can be outright cruel to make a woman cover her head because a great deal of body-heat leaves the body via the head. (Not even to talk of how hot the black chadors and abaja’s can be, especially when they are made of synthetic fibres to prevent wrinkling…). This is why a lot of my Egyptian Muslim friends hate to wear the hijab in the summer and some of them don’t. It is totally unfair and hypocritical to have (Muslim) women suffer in order to make it a bit easier for men “to control themselves”. Men are responsible for their conduct in this case. And especially spiritual and religious men should view this as their obligation. Just like a woman is responsible for her feelings if she is attracted to a man who happens to have good hair. By the way, sura 24:30 calls for men to lower their gaze but I never see Muslim-men do this.
In stead, they stare and enjoy staring. To consider women seducing by nature because men don’t (want to) take the effort to controll themselves is turning the world upside down. If they overeat should they blame this on the existence of food or on their personal greed?
Kind regards,
Micky
I have always been taught that the hijab is a choice for women who want to protect themselves against the unwanted stares of men.
Growing up all over North America as a Muslim woman, I have always been given the same opportunities as men, the same respect that men recieve, and the same rights as men.
Men who have grown up here have never harrassed me, nor have they given me unwanted attention. Because of this, I have never needed to wear the hijab. However, men who have recently immigrated here from countries that don't treat women as equals and don't give women the basic human rights that they deserve are a different story altogether.
They are the ones who stare at a woman's chest and they are the ones who harrass them. They do this because they think they have the right to. They think they are superior than women and more righteous than women. They are the reason women in other countries wear the hijab.
Men who think they have the right to act like apes around women should realize that God has given all human beings free will. That means everyone is fully capable of making decisions for themselves. If a women is not wearing a hijab and is dressed in a way that you may not see as appropriate, then who are you to judge her? Instead, you should control your own thoughts and actions. If you don't, then you obviously subscribe to mentality that men are pigs who can't keep a leash on themselves.
Please keep in mind that I am speaking generally. I am in no way saying that all men are pigs. In fact, I know many men who would never treat a woman like an object.
I am saying that in general, men who come from countries that don't treat women as equals, and don't give them equal rights are more likely to commit crimes against them. And this does not necessarily mean just Muslim countries either. All countries that promote inequality including India, China, Pakistan, etc.
hey i am a fifteen year old muslim girl from the uk and lately for some reason i'v really been doubting Islam. I know its wrong and i know deep in heart i am a true muslim but its just that i find some things so unfair, like men get all the rights and everything…i know some people may disgaree but in the end its true and i'v done loads of reaearch and everything…anyway i got really angry when i went on this website and read some of the articles, it was really depressing, espeshilly for a women. If someone could find the time to go on and give me there veiws it i would be really grateful. The website is: http://debate.domini.org/newton/womeng.html
anyway things i want answers to is like why does the man have the right to give instant divorce (talaak) to his wife and not a woman? i mean its like men have a worse temper and they could just divorce there wives in like a moment wihtout even thinking about it, but i PRESUME a woman would think about it and not jump to hasty doings as its the question of her respect and dignity. Its not just that but its like…i find plogamy really unfair. what woman could actually be happy about her husband having another wife or two or three or four!!!!!!!!! come on people, think rational. men get everyhting. women get nothing. when u go on that website i recommended you may also get the same idea, its not just the website that makes me think like this….its eveything! anyway hoping for replies! Mariam.
Just a note,
In Saudi Arabia where I lived between 1975-1980, the use of the "habaya" as we called it there was not universal. The more traditionally based a women's leaning was the more prone she was to wear the habaya. My sister and mother-in-laws (Saudis) had lived in Lebanon for a long time and did not wear it over their heads in the Eastern Province, but DID do so when they came to Riyadh. Which tells me that the different forms it takes depends on the expectancy of the locale. I didn't wear one at all because Westerners weren't expected to, we just wore long dresses with sleeves. There was a MAJOR shift after the Iraninan revolution when fundamentalism in Saudi became even stronger vis-a-vis the fundamentalist takeover of Iran. On a side note, living in Saudi for five years sure made me more modest even to the point of not wanting to take the towel covering me up at the beach off. I'm still like this and won't go without my shorts and a t-shirt. It may be alot more exposed than I was in Saudi Arabia, but my point is that the modesty thing wore off on me to the point that I might seem like a prude here in my own country.
It's certainly better than a thong on a 51-year old slightly overweight Catholic though. I'm for MODESTY!
Modesty is one thing but a Birka, that is over doing it, not that I think it's ok for a woman to ware a thong in public…My understanding from many Muslim women is that a Hijab is worn to protect women from the eyes of men, wouldn't a woman then draw more attention to herself by dressing in a way that was not normal for the society or the place she lived in?…(Hence defeating the purpose)..
I just don’t understand why people can't except the fact that these laws and recommendations were made over 1400 years ago, isn't time to reevaluate some of the rules since we live in a completely deferent time now. By the way is it also not a sin for Muslims to smoke?
Why is it that I see so many women wearing a Hijab and holding a cigarette in their hands? and one more question, which woman is more of a Muslim a woman who wears a Hijab while at the same time wears Jeans so tight that you can see a dime (a coin) in her pocket, or a woman who never wears a Hijab but always dresses appropriately according to the culture she lives within and always behaves opproprietely?
I think the Hijab in todays western society is just for show, just as the cross many Christians wear,maybe a long time ago it meant something, and in the muslim world it is a form of opretion placed by men who are too weak to controll thier thoughts and actions.
Hello,
I just wanted to respond to the comment made by Maraya about whether hijab is a requirement. I believe it most deffinitely is. A woman covering the hair is what the prophet of Allah (salallahu alayhe wa salaam) commanded the believing women to do. In Surah Ahzab Ayah 36 it says, what is translated as, "It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger, salallahu alayhi wa salaam, have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in plain error." In many ahadeeth the proofs for wearing hijab can be found, such as in the hadeeth where the prophet salallahu alayhi wa salaam, entered the house of Aisha and her sister Asmaa, radiallau anhummah, was there and she radiallahu anha, was not covered. He, salallahu alayhi wa salaam, told her that she must cover all but her face and hands, which contradicts also the statement that there is any ambiguity in whether the command was only for the wives of the prophet Muhammad, salallahu alayhi wa salaam. To say that it is not obligatory is to say that the prophet of Allah salallahu alayhi wa salaam, was incorrect in ordering us to do so, and we know that this is a contradiction to what Islam is. I just thought that maybe this could shed some light on these issues.
Thankyou,
Sameerah
Sameerah
It was still said over 1400 years ago when it was the customary for women to cover their hair.. things today are deferent, and if you are going to take everything so lateral, will you then take up arms and start killing non Muslims unless they convert…I it great to follow the teachings of your prophet (pbuh)as long as you keep in mind that there are things which where done in a deferent time and culture.
take for example the idea of a Muslim man marrying four wives….well at the time of the prophet, there were many wars being fought, many men were being killed and therefore women were left on their own…so it was logical that the prophet would encourage men to take on more wives as to provide sustenance and comfort. This is no longer the case and in most cases.
Like I said before that is the problem with taking every thing so literal, it leaves no room to adapt to the ever changing world, culture, and it leaves no room to evolve.
Mougly,
I have to disagree with you here. Religions does not evolve, they are not science! Religions reach to a point of no return, and they either have to be "taken all" as is or rejected "all in all".
Looking at what other religions are now, and taking Christianity as an example, actually Christianity did not evolve, but followers of the original itself, dissolve. These are two different things.
If you read the above post and the all the following comments, you will see that what actually has changed is the people and their attachment to religion beliefs. For example, modesty is one of the beliefs in Christianity (same like in Judaism), but if a lady decided to wear here bikini in public, that is not of Christianity, that is of her own non-religious believes.
What I need to say in short is; let’s not mix religious values with human values. They are two different things. They can compliment each other, or fight each other. Which route a man choose is his. Therefore, Hijab is one of the basic beliefs in Islam. We like it or not, that’s our problem. Woman chooses to wear it or not, that is her decision, not the non-religious community believers. West decided to separate the church from politics and running the country, that is not the case (and will not be for many more ages) in the Muslim world.
Haithan
I respect your comments; although I did not say that religion must evolve… what I did say though is the outward appearance of the people who practice their religions must evolve not their core beliefs.
See depending on the culture, region, and the time in which the teachings are being interpreted determines what is meant by MODESTY, for instance modesty as interpreted by an Afghan 5 years ago is not the same as the interpretation by a bushmen tribe in Africa, Think of this if the Roman empire was still in existance today would we still be wearing Togas? not likely and if you see someone walking down the street with a Toga now you would think that it is silly. I believe that modesty is not based on how you dress but on how you behave….just as I mentioned in my last two posts.
Saying I am a Christian or wearing a cross does not make one a Christian…just as wearing a Hijab does not make you a good Muslim…
Thank you
If a woman chooses not to wear a Hijab but behaves in an honorable , fair, and is just, then I think that would make here more of a Muslim than a woman who wears a Hijab and yet is deceitful and greedy.
May I comment?
Mougley says, "wearing a hijab does not make you a good moslem"
I agree.
I say, "A good moslem wears the hijab"
Now as a Westener I might think it unusual, but I am more than willing to respect their right and desire of Moslem women to dress this way. Interestingly enough, I researched Islamic dress for the women in Indonesia and what I found is that in the province of Agha is instituting a legal requirement to wear a scarf. The site I found said that they see this as the Arabization of Islam. Therefor I wonder, how much of this is cultural,because when I read the passages from the Koran it seems pretty clear to me what should be done. Mougley, I think your evolving arguement would be the same as telling a Jewish person to eat pork. Remember, the law was instituted for health purposes when pork spoiled easily. Now we have refrigeration, we have evolved. Should Jews eat pork now?
Robin first of all I fully respect the beliefs and customs of others and am in no way bothered or effected by women who choose to wear a hijab, I am fortunate to live in a country that respects every ones rights to practice their religion and dress as they wish,
I am simply making the point regarding the fact that customs and traditions do change, and they must…(we no longer practice human sacrifice, or own slaves, we also do not wear pointy shoes, Jews no longer wear turbans or robes as they once did). As for the Pork issue I agree with you that before refrigeration, Pork meat was not sanitary, it did spoil fast in the heat and therefore made people sick, and so it was declared "not kosher". today the way in which Pigs are raised and the fact that we can refrigerate the meat and prevent it from spoiling makes the prohibition obsolete and therefore I do think that a Jew may have a peace of ham without worry.
But again I believe that God is not concerned with whether we eat Pork or have a glass of wine from time to time, but more of how we get along with others from day to day.
It is ironic how often the people who do the most harm are the ones who seem to be most concerned with the outwards appearance rather than the inner substance. (ex. The Pope, Osama Bin Ladin, Bush and so on.) you know .. the “Look at me I am a believer mentality”
Mougley,
So much of what you are asserting I agree with. But that isn't a point. It isn't a point because THEY don't agree. Since it does no harm to me, I don't care what they wear or eat. I agree with you completely that inner substance trumps outward appearnces or rituals. But THEY see these things as part and substance of who they are. Mougley, I have no idea where you live or what your religious affiliation is, but this subject if taken objectively is a matter of BELIEF and beliefs based in faith are unarguable as far as I'm concerned. Also I think what we are talking about, the hijab, is absolutely clearly stated in the Koran. Think about it this way: There are three levels (more or less) to Judaism. Orthodox, Reform and Secular. Where the Orthodox follows completely to the letter kosher law, the reform is not quite as hung up and the secular just might enjoy a ham sandwich. This is the same for Islam. Many westerners view the hijab as unnecessary, but the Orthodox Moslem (yes I know there's no such term) is following the Koran to the T. I blogged onto a site called Aqua Blue operated by a Palestinian young woman. She gives an absolutely wonderful explanation of Islam. She says, Christianity is a noun (gramatically), Judaism is a noun, but Islam is a verb. I hope I get this right as she put it, Islam means to "submit to the will of god". So since that is the defintion, and you need to acitively "DO" Islam, then you need to do what it says. Believe me, I personally don't think the hijab is necessary for anyone, but that is no one but a Moslem woman's decision to make. I think the problem we have in the West is when it is forced upon women. But then you have the Sharia, the law equivalent to the Koran which enforces the enforcing. Mougley, it is very fundamentalist, just like fundamentalist Christians read creationism as opposed to evolution. But remember, they BELIEVE (an inarguable subject from my standpoint) that the Koran is absolutely the word of Allah PBUH and the last word and therefore it should be followed. I think the problem is you're arguing against a belief and therefore it's moot. Hope I made sense, Peace.
Mougley,
One more thing if I may, you said "customs and traditions do change". Sure they do, but the Koran doesn't and it isn't a custom or tradition, it's a religion. Just so you know, I not arguing, just disagreeing. I was married to a Moslem for nine years in Saudi Arabia so that's where I'm coming from as well as being American.
When I said "I personally don't think the hijab is necessary for anyone" I myself was arguing MY own belief because hijab is not a part of that. Mougley, see how easy it is to fall back on one's own frame of reference, even in a small way? Hijab is a Moslem's frame of reference, and once again I say, a moot subject to argue.
Robin your points are well taken and I respect the fact that people have their beliefs. The points I've made and continue to make is simply this..If the Prophet was present today, would things not have been deferent? I also respect the woman’s right to dress as she may.
As for your question regarding my faith.. well I was raised Catholic and by the age of 14 I had made the decision that I could no longer be a part of such hypocrisy, I have read most of the Koran, the whole Bible and a few other books of religion, which made me conclude that they all have valid massages, taking away all the rituals and customs the core of these religions serve to point us in one direction, that is to live with one another peacefully and with tolerance and understanding on this tinny fragile planet.
Unfortunately some people get so wrapped up in the ritual that they forget the reason of why they are performing it.
Today I live a spiritual life, I believe that there is a higher power call it God, Allah, Jehovah or what ever you wish, and when I am in a natural place, in a forest on a mountain, or on the shore of a vast sea, I feel closer to the creator than I ever did when I went to a church and participated in a meaningless ritual.
The last thing I would like to add to this post is this, no matter what faith you choose to follow, be true to it and it will bring you the peace you are looking for and if the ritual makes you feel closer to your God then all the best to you.
I hope you will find what you are looking for here and in the afterlife.
Mougley,
Now you said something that makes more sense. Absolutely I think it MIGHT be different. It's hypothetical, but an interesting point that you made. I just became a Catholic three years ago. The primary impetus was my daughter beginning a Catholic school but it caught on. I might attend church, I do have to admit, enjoy the rituals, but they are NOT the core of my belief. I like to go to nature to meet my creator also. Kimmy over on another thread said so too. I don't have an absolute idea where anyone of us is going to end up in the long run. But we're all here NOW and we need to promote peace and understanding amongst ourselves which is what I see you doing. My life is more spiritual than Catholic I guess but is a habit I've grown to love within my heart. By the way, over there somewhere I saw where you said you wish you could walk in peace in Nablus with your mother like you did when you were young. Your statement touched me and if ever there comes a chance for you to do just that very thing, it will be whenever all the parties involved live their own lives in the spirituality you exemplify. Peace.
Mougley,
Please edit "makes more sense" to "it makes more sense to ME" I somehow missed part of your prior discussion. I'm more a "talky" person than a "writy" person. My mistake.
Thank you for the comments.
I hope we all find the peace we are looking for.
i have found an aya from the holy quran
o prophet tell thy wives and the women of the belivers to draw their cloaks close around them that way they may be reconized and not anoyyed allah is forgiveing mericiful
i think thats enought if u r a true muslim u follow the quran and since the quran states that u must wear th hijab u shood
Hanna
I don't understand how you interpreted this AYA into wearing a hijab, but I gess that's how you understand it so it is your truth.
i didn't get to this blog until today, and i haven't read every single comment on here, so if this has already been discussed-sorry.
anyway, there is a really interesting discussion on the veil in "women and gender in islam" by leila ahmed (yale university press). as a westerner, i wasn't sure exactly what it represented, i was suspicious of both the western idea that the veil is oppressive, and the orthodox muslim idea that it is required, now i've come to my own conclusion (from which i will spare you).
anyway, it's a really good read, for anyone interested in a historical perspective of women in the middle east.
In Denmark there have (so far) been four legal cases in connection with hijabs:
1st case: A Muslim woman sued a Danish department store and lost the case. She applied for work, but did not want to follow the rules about uniforms (according to Danish law a company can demand that all employees wear a uniform as long as the uniform is available for free) as she maintained that she wanted to wear her hijab.
2nd & 3rd case: Two employees in two different supermarkets sued their employers and lost the cases. Both were already employed, but they sued because they were not allowed to start wearing hijab. All through their employment they had accepted the uniform rules, but suddenly it became an issue for them. The court upheld employers' legal right to prescribe uniform rules.
'COOP Denmark' is by far the largest group of supermarkets in Denmark with, I think, four or five different chains. According to their uniform rules, women have the freedom of choice to wear a scarf or not, as long as it is a company issued scarf (part of the uniform rules).
I appreciate that Denmark is a free country where people who find scarfs a matter of life and death have the freedom to seek employment where they wish. Nobody in Denmark are forced to work in a 'scarf-less' company, nobody is forced to work for COOP Denmark, and everybody has the freedom to choose whether they want to wear a scarf or not.
4th case: Kvickly (a COOP supermarket) fired a female employee for saying "I did not know that we have hooded seaguls employed here" when se saw a Muslim colleague with a company scarf. Company management judged it to be racism and expelled the woman. The case is represented by the same labor union which also represented at least two of the other cases for Muslim union members. The case was reported on March 11, so there is no court decision on the matter yet.
In the press several Muslim women (predominantly Iranian Danes) have spoken out against the hijab, because for them it represents the opression of women in Iran they fled from. Of course there are also voices 'demanding' scarfs, but the funny thing is that those are mostly put forward by Muslim organizations and not Muslim individuals.
Denmark had very strong women's liberation forces and the remnants of the almost militaristic ones (we called them Red Sox, because part of their 'battle dress' were red socks and purple bandanas) are strongly opposing hijab requirements, because to them hijab requirements represent a serious setback in the rights they have won for all Danish women (regardless of faith).
One Dane says on a blog: "Why is it that we, in the western countries, promote the road towards scarfs, while Iranian women, in 2003, in protest against the view on women of the Islamic Republic threw burned scafs in the streets of Tehran with danger for their own lives?" [my translation]
It is an interesting point, because it resembles when the Red Sox burned their bras in the streets in Denmark at the end of the 60s. Emotionally, because we support our women and their rights to be as liberal as men, this is a very strong argument.
One Muslim woman said the following on another Danish blog: "I often wonder why Muslim women in the hospital world where I work require to wear a weil to display their religion. I, for example, am left oriented, but I do not display that through my way of dressing."
Considering that a majority of the early Muslim Danes originate from Turkey, it does not promote the case of the pro-hijabers that Turkey, a secular but Muslim country, has banned the hijab in all public institutions.
The same Muslim woman writes in the same post "I live on Nørrebro [part of inner Copenhagen] and my little sister completely stopped going to the playground. She is constantly confronted with why she does not wear a scarf and is being mocked with that she is like a Dane and that she probably also eat pork meat. This is just yet another sign that these kids are being brainwashed at home." [again, my translation of her words]
My head is spinning with all the contradictions for and against by intolerant Muslims, intolerant Danes, intolerant Muslim Danes, and intolerants in general.
We live in a 'funny' world where it is very difficult to make everybody happy at the same time!
Salaams and Hello to all bloggers. I've just finished reading through every blog on this page (phew!) and I would like to add my own comments if I may (please)…. I'm sorry, but this will be a long one as it is hard to convay my thoughts accurately when I'm breif:
Hijaab – What is it?
To answer the question posed above, I must first explain a little bit about linguistics. The way words are formed, derived, used and perceived all have to be taken into consideration when discussing phraseology from other languages. The literal meaning of a word can vary from place to place and people to people. There can be several literal meanings for a single word and equally, the concepts derived from such a word can easily also be manifold. For example, the word Paradise comes from the Persian word, Firrdawss, meaning ‘garden’ or ‘greenery’. In normal usage, the word can refer to one’s front lawn or back garden (in Persian) however, it is also a term used to describe an exotic location or a place of particular beauty, lush with vegetation – the most exalted of such places being Heaven.
I was visited by a very friendly group of Jehovah’s Witnesses a few weeks ago. They wanted to explain their religious concept of Heaven to me and we found ourselves discussing this very topic. As they explained their belief that Paradise was not a heavenly place on another spiritual plane, separate from this mortal dimension, but was in fact the planet Earth, I was intrigued by their argument that it was all to do with the language of the Bible. The Bible, they told me, describes a Garden, green, with rivers and plants, where the Good People, the ‘saved’ people, would never die and dwell for eternity. They asked me if I could guess the expanse of the universe – which of course I cannot – and pointed out that of all the stars and planets that God has created, the only one that is like a ‘garden, green, with rivers and plants’ is this very planet. I agree; much of the Earth is idyllic and comparable to descriptions of ‘Paradise’; however my understanding of those Biblical verses differs from theirs as I still understand it to mean a Heavenly Garden, beyond my limited, mortal perception. This brings me back to the point about language being the key to conveying ideas and concepts. If a picture is like a thousand words, imagine if a single word could convey a thousand meanings.
The word HIJAAB is an Arabic word that literally means ‘protected’ or ‘protection’. It can also mean ‘covering’; the primary usage is with regards to clothing, so it refers to ‘protective garments’ or ‘protective covering’ or ‘covering garments’. Specific items of clothing have specific names, so ‘Hijaab’ does not mean ‘headscarf’ for example.
The way Hijaab has been prescribed in Isslaam is very simple and very accommodating. It is in no way a burden unless it is not understood properly. Many young girls are made to wear headscarves by their parents without knowing why they are wearing it or what it is supposed to do. Indeed, to the non-Musslim, it is nothing more than a peace of cloth that covers a girl’s hair and perhaps has some kind of symbolic significance. But what is it for? What does it do? What does it mean?
Dress Code:
As I said, Hijaab is primarily a dress code. A particular standard of attire has been prescribed to all Musslims, male and female, which must be adhered to. In their most basic forms, the dress codes are as follows:
In every case, a Musslim must be decently dressed in public and when away from his or her home.
Men must be covered from navel to knee in loose-fitting and opaque attire. In other words, nothing see-through and no form-fitting items to be worn. This includes cycling shorts, swimming trunks, shorts that end higher than the knee and no 'hipster' type jeans/trousers etc. that start below the belly-button (unless accompanied by a shirt etc.) either! Sadly, few men realise that the Hijaab is meant for them too and we often find them wearing a shirt and trouser combination where the shirt is tucked neatly into form-fitting trousers that leave little to the imagination. This is not Hijaab. Men should not make a spectacle of their manhood any more than women should show off their figures. Our brothers also have a responsibility to avoid those fashion items that broadcast, or even hint at, the uniquely male physique, such as T-shirts with an arrow pointing way down towards the nether regions or handprints on the back pockets of their jeans.
Women must be covered except for their faces – excluding the ears and neck – and hands – fingertips to the wrist (and some also say the feet are exempt too – from the ankle), but again their clothing should not be form-fitting, see-through or revealing in any way. Fashion does not rely only on low necklines and tight bodices to suggest the figure underneath these days. Many clothes have prints and designs that hint at curves and make the chest area a focal point, or evoke a narrow waist. Just like vertical stripes make you look thinner, swirls and circles pointedly placed in certain areas will allude to womanly attributes – and these must be avoided. We must remember that the human form is a very personal, private and precious thing and should not be put on public display for all and sundry. To do so is to devalue your body and make it cheap. The non-Musslim notion that revealing more of your body is a way of celebrating it is not one shared by Isslaam. In Isslaam, those things that are precious and important to us are kept wrapped and protected, to be revealed only to a select few who are deemed worthy.
Protection:
The protective aspect of Hijaab is multifaceted. As we know, clothing can protect us from many aspects of daily life, such as from the heat or the cold; our coats keep us safe from wind and rain in the winter and our rimmed hats keep the sun’s harmful rays from our faces. A woolly jumper will keep the morning chill at bay and in the summer, we wear clothes that ‘breath’ to keep us cool and dry. Different cultures have developed different types of garments depending on the climate of a region. Just as fur is typical in snowy countries, t-shirts are common in sunny ones. In Arabia, people have worn long loose garments from even before Isslaam, to keep their whole bodies shaded from the sun. In China and Japan, people traditionally wrap their clothes tightly around themselves to keep the material from getting in their way as they work. The purpose of the Musslim Dress Code is also to protect us from other people.
Although I think we can all agree that ordinary men and women are not all prone to uncontrollable fits of lust, we can also recognise that in societies where the approach to morality is more ‘relaxed’, there is an obvious danger of becoming a victim of lust. By ‘victim of lust’ I don’t necessarily mean getting pounced on by someone who finds you irresistibly attractive (although this can happen, especially if the one doing all the pouncing is very, very drunk!) but if someone ‘makes a pass’ at you, flirts with you or even fantasises about you in the private confines of his or her own mind, this would make you a victim of their lust. You may not think of yourself as a ‘victim’ unless something tangible happens against you, but your soul will feel the repercussions of other people’s sexual fantasies about you.
Another thing to remember is that by protecting yourself from physical and spiritual harm, you are also protecting others. How? Well, think of it this way: If an ordinary man goes to a museum, knowing there are valuable artefacts there, but knowing they are safe behind a glass box that is protected by laser beams, etc. he will never be tempted to steal them, or even handle them. But if, one day, he goes there and finds that the guards are off duty, the CCTV is out of order and the artefacts are all just lying about on a counter without being watched over – he just might be tempted to slip something small into his pocket. He may be more honest than that and decide, “ok I won’t steal,” but pick something up, just to know how it feels to hold it in his hands (thereby de-valuing it). An even more honest man probably wouldn’t do either of these things, but he would wonder what it would be like….
Hhmm… I know what you are thinking: That last guy sounds like the average man, and what harm can it do if he does think about it? Well, the point is, why put dishonest ideas into an honest man’s head? Why help satan like that? There is no shortage of temptations in this world without our adding to them.
By keeping our bodies covered up, we keep the temptation of their pleasures at bay too. By maintaining higher levels of modesty, we can help keep honest people from entertaining dishonest thoughts.
In this way, we also protect ourselves from becoming accomplices to sinners. Those people who knowingly entertain sinful thoughts, or worse still, exercise sinful acts, are not our responsibility if we have done our best to protect them and ourselves from sin. If, however, we have been negligent in this, we are party to the sins that follow. Just like someone who knows of a murder but does not report it, becomes an ‘accessory to murder’, even if he/she was not involved in killing anybody.
Symbol: It is true that many percieve the visual aspects of a Musslim woman's dress as being a form of symbolism – and equally, many Musslims also wear clothes that symbolise their faith, as a kind of 'proof of identiy'. That said, it is up to every 'visually' Musslim individual to uphold the standards of a good person when wearing such attire as they are then representatives of their faith to others and should act responsibly.
Modesty: At the end of the day, Hijaab is all about modesty. Not just modest dress but modest behaviour and lifestyle too. Be they men or women, Musslims are required to lead modest and humble lives – even the rich and famous ones!
Code of Conduct – This brings me to my final point, and that is:The term Hijaab refers to (or should refer to) the Musslim Code of Conduct. This is something that is inherent in the teaching, learning and practicing of Isslaam. As I understand it, as a Musslim, nothing I wear, do, say, eat, nowhere I go and no-one I emulate should be in contrast to the ethos of Isslaam. If it ever is, then it would be in violation of my own personal Hijaab. If I wear a headscarf, but practice deceit or use bad language or insult/hurt others, then I am not in Hijaab. Hijaab is not an item of clothing but an etiquette that includes dress, manners, decorum and adherence to Isslaam.
I hope this isn’t too confusing and I trust I have not caused offence (and if I have I beg pardon) but this is what I understand Hijaab to mean.
Peaces to all, may we all learn to accept our differences, recognise our similarities and harmonise with each-other on God’s Earth, Aameen/amen.
Ps. I am a British Musslimah.
Thomas, A Dane # 126
Your last sentence has provoked me to write. Often times, it is not difficult to make everyone happy at the same time, it is impossible! That is particularly true when one person feels the need to dictate anothers behavior. While I truly believe that a majority of Muslums living in the west have no desire to change the culture of their new homes, a sizeable minority have just that goal in mind. In 1986, could you have imagined an editor of a paper giving a second thought to any editorial cartoon which made a political point? Today, there are many ideas and images which can not be publicly aired, mainly due to the threat of violence on the part of the radical muslums. Until that fact changes, a large percent of the west(perhaps a majority) will never be happy.
I wonder, given the last years events and the anecdote you described, how many muslum women wear the veil out of piety, and how many wear it out of a concern for personal safety.
Munjlee,
Thank you for a very good explanation of hijab.
I understand the first half of your post, but the second half was a bit too 'excentric' for me as an atheist (the part with thought crimes, spiritual danger, and stuff).
However, I guess that hijab or not is more or less a non-question in the sense that how one dress is a personal matter that should not be laid down by national law. I guess the approach taken in Denmark is fair and justifiable (leaving it up to the companies to make their own policy on the matter and leaving it up to the individual to accept the job or not).
Personally, unless I really had to, I would not accept a job as a 'sandwich man' or a job in a deli shop, since running around as a poster board or with a little white hat would make me feel silly :)
It sounds like, except for the head scarf, the 'decent dress code' for women in Islam is not that much different from what is considered 'decent dress code' by some 'Western' women (especially the more religious of them). By the way, is a head scarf specifically prescribed or is it more of a tradition? And, is a woman's ears or hair considered a sex symbol? And a man's navel?
——-
I also enjoyed your linguistic explanation about paradise. The curious thing is, that while you, the Arabs, gave English 'paradise', we, the Vikings, gave English 'hell' :)
The English word Hell is influenced by my old gods of the Norse religion. English, German, and Norse (before it split up into Danish, Swedish, Norwegian, and Icelandic) are all Germanic languages. Originally 'hell' was 'hel', which was both the name of the Norse goddess of the underworld and her hall/castle in the underworld (the word 'hel' is supposed to be influenced by Greek and Latin).
In the Norse religion, the goddess Hel was an equal god with all the other gods (I don't know of any other religion where 'evil' is an accepted equal with 'good' forces). The godess Hel ruled the realm of Niflheim (a dark, cold and damp realm) and resided in the halls of Hel (the roof is made of serpents dripping poison down on the people below – standing in blood and only given goat urine when they are thirsty). Dishonorable people who have broken their oaths and people who died without glory of disease or old age would 'go to Hel' (also Norse inspired as people had to walk across a bridge). Those who died with honor would join the gods for feasts with plenty of food (wild boar) and Mead (beer) in the halls of Valhalla in the realm of Asgaard.
The Norse word Hel probably crossed over to English around the time we 'ruled Britania' on and off for almost a century around the 9th/10th century AD.
What I find interesting is that the concept of Hell in the Norse religion was wet and cold while the the Hell of the Abrahamic religions is burning hot. Though we did have a realm with fire and heat (Muspelheim), Nordic people were more likely to die from hypothermia in cold rainy weather than from hyperthermia and dehydration in the hot sun of the 'South' where the Abrahamic religions come from.
Though our religion is dead, there are a lot of good stories and if it hadn't been for those stories, then 'Lord of the Rings' would not have had Middle Earth, Valkyries, Dwarfs, and many of the other supernatural concepts making it a very good story.
Though Danes were officially converted to Christianity by the Viking king Harald Bluetooth, you will still hear the phrase "The gods must know" used interchangably with "I have no idea" and if somebody tells something that is too fantastic to believe then we may respond with "it is lies and Latin". :)
Thomas,
Are you familiar with this poem?:
Fire and Ice
Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.
— Robert Frost
It came to mind from your post above. It also sort of reminds me of the different cultural takes on "hijab". One woman's (Munjlee)
view of "hijab" is different from a "westerner's" view of "hijab"
Different points of view, but still "dress codes" for us humans, residing neither in "hel" or "hades" (the hotter version of the same entity) but right here on earth where unless we are at a nudist colony, must all choose the way we dress. BTW, I liked your post #126 because it seems what the Danes are doing is well within reason. I also really liked Munjlee's post because it was both well written in a language easy to understand and also makes sense. I like sense no matter what perspective it comes from so to both of you, thanks! (liked #128 too due to the educational value)
Munjlee
You have an interesting point of view, you start by explaining how a word can have many meanings depending on who is using it, but then you provide an explanation regarding the hijab as if it were the only meaning. How can you be so sure of this? you have to remember that these rules and (dress codes) were dictated by the cultures of he time (more than a 1000 years ago and even more, the idea of modesty has changed, and although I agree that sexuality has been over used to sell products and in many areas of our lives. I do believe that a woman can be modest regardless of her dress, it is about behavior not appearance…And I always like to ask this question, If Mohammad was here today instead of 1200 or so years ago wouldn't the idea of what is modest be deferent?
I respect that you have your beliefs and convictions, I also respect the fact that we all have our own beliefs, All I ask is that no one try to push their view down my throat, if a Muslim wishes to wear a scarf then all the power to her, if a nudist wants to sunbathe on a beach be it, and if I do not like it I'll find another beach to go to.
One last question, why is it that many Muslims choose to abide so strongly by some instructions, while completely ignoring others? (For example some women will strongly defend the hijab while at the same time they walk around with tight jeans, or Muslims who will not take drink but yet smoke like a chimney which according to my understanding is also forbidden as it harms the body, which is against the Qoran?
See that is the problem with trying to interpret the old texts, they where written long ago to people of another age, and when we try to interpret and apply them today we get a hundred deferent interpretations, so who is right, You? Osama Bin Ladin? The Shaw of Iran? Bush? The Pope? Or the Cleric from Egypt who says that a husband and wife should not see each other naked?
It is Ironic that religion seems to be the cause of so much conflict in our world today, and just to think that it is all based on individual interpretations of very old texts…
Mougly,
You are right, much conflict comes from interpretations of old outdated texts.
I was trying to find a good descriptive concept for this, which took me through reading about necrophilia, retrophilia, delusions, and a lot of other interesting concepts I did not know much about beforehand (I am a big fan of 'Wikipedia hopping' from one article to the other without knowing where I will end up).
Though I did find out that necrophilia is occuring in nature (the Mallard duck is attributed to display the highest rate of nechrophilia in the animal world) and that, psychologically, necrophilia and September 11 can be linked (http://www.division42.org/MembersArea/IPfiles/IPSum_2002/articles/911/fromm.html) I did not really find what I was looking for.
I still don't have a good answer to why a large part of the world population is so infatuated with outdated or inadequate concepts and ideas of dead people in connection with political (ideological) and moral (religious) theories about the 'perfect' model for a society. In politics, there are still a lot of people subscribing to literal interpretations of political doctrines by authors who lived long before the modern era (Marx, Keynes, etc.) and whose socio-political models have long been proven inadequate either through failed attempts of implementation, scientific observation/criticism, or both. In religions, there are a lot of literal interpretations of old fashioned moral standards written down at a time when interaction between cultures were limited to small numbers of traders or imperial armies crossing the borders into an adjacent cultural area and that more than a millennium before the emergence of modern concepts like human rigths (most of them 'invented' in the 20th century).
Currently, I think the most likely reasoning for this infatuation with the past could be based on human nature, but I may change my mind about it. It is well established that humans fear the unknown to a varying degree, so I guess an explanation could be that a lot of people seek comfort in conservativism (in the traditionalism sense) as'the old' represents wishful thinking for the future as a means of reducing the fear of the unknown future.
Regardless of the reasoning, I really don't see how a peaceful global society is at all possible as long as local majorities of people in cultural areas around the world contine to subscribe to faulty doctrines or cuturally narcissistic ideologies of the past as if their favored 'old book' is the whole truth and nothing but the truth!
During my Wiki hopping I tripped over the following interesting links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wishful_thinking
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear#Degrees_of_fear
I also tripped over a very good Michael Pritchard quote:
"Fear is the little darkroom where negatives are developed."
Catholic women (and basically all Christian women), as well as Jewish women are not allowed to wear pants because they are considered both men's clothing and immodest (because they show the split between a woman's legs, and the thighs are considered private parts. We are required to wear skirts that are at least four inches below the knee. We must wear shirts that cover our upper arms and do not show cleavage. Women must cover their hair when they pray. These are similar to, but not as strict, as the Jewish laws.
In the Bible all Christians are to refrain from activities that might tempt our neighbors, and modest dress definetly falls within this category.
Also, please don't always say western women dress immodestly, I notice that it's more often the case with secular/non-practicing women, and I've seen this with Jewish, Muslim, and Christian women as well.
Hey Mougly post 131.
You have a very good point how about Muslims put on hijab and then smoke. That's just horrible and a bad image of Islam. But it''s unfair of you to ask a Muslim or anyone WHY this happens…
Why do many Muslims choose to abide by some laws so strongly and completely ignore others? I don't know. Hyprocrisy, weakness, stupidity, ignorance you name it. It's just not fair because every religion has their hypocrites. If I asked someone. Why did this guy rape a child if he's a priest? That's not fair to them and he can't represent all Catholics. Muslims are taking a lot of criticism right now that's not fair. There are hypocrites everywhere.
I am pro-hijab though I dont wear one. Protection is NOT the main goal of hijab. That's a misconception. The main goal is modesty and it was commanded by God, protection is a bonus. Even though the hijab doesnt always mean protection esp in the Middle east. But in this country, you can see it as a plus. However, I am offended when hijabi women disregard non hijabi Muslims and assume they are not religious. I am offended when muslim men criticize a hijabi when she goes to a concert saying it's haram.
There is too much judgment.
just my two cents
Krisztina,
While some Christian women are required to wear skirts/dresses, this is not true of all, nor even most. Certain denominations and sects are required to, notably Mennonites, certain Independent Baptists, etc. But I have lived my life entirely as Southern Baptist (a fairly conservative denomination), I have never seen such a requirement. Women are encouraged to be modest, but that is within the context of the culture (Paul has a lot to say about taking care not to offend those within certain cultures while not legalistically restricting yourself otherwise). Fir example, my lovely wife will wear a bikini to the beach (we live in Florida), but not to the mall. She wears pants to church (she has never been a fan of dresses), and so do many of her friends. In our culture here, pants are considered as modest as skirts (often moreso). Just wanted to clear that up!
But pants have historically been considered an article of men's clothing, which is one of the two reasons I mentioned earlier. Deuteronomy 22:5
"A woman shall not wear man's clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman's clothing; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God."
I've also consulted a rabbi who agrees with me, and even mentioned that priests after the Exodus were required to wear pants. And many christian websites contest that God favors a short skirt over loose pants because pants are men's clothing.
Whatever you and those close to you do, I honestly don't care. I have no right or power to judge others. I just pray that you and all you know live happy and blessed lives. I mean no harm by this and hope I have not offended you nor anyone else. As Jesus said in Matthew 7:4
"Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye?"
I do not want to be a hypocrite when I do not exactly follow what I say. I do not wear a skirt everyday myself, but I am changing my ways. And may God forgive my transgressions.
Dear Krisztina, for precision Council Vatican II started in 1962.
Fair enough! :-)
On the men's/women's clothing issue, my take on it is that I'd like to see any Christian man in women's pants, and see how manly they are! :-D I think it ends up falling into the legalism debate within Christianity (and apparently with Islam as well). Paul goes into a lot about this. He ended up in conflict with Peter over the "Judaizing" of Gentile converts, requiring them to follow Mosaic law. Many Christians men have long hair (myself included), wear earrings/noserings/etc., and many Christians altogether wear tattoos and the like. Certain aspects may be under suspect via Mosaic law, but forbidding of which may also be considered legalism under the less-defined, less-stringent Christian law. Thus the distinction in the Old and New Testaments.
As for my take as a Christian on the Muslim issue of Hajib, if it is a clear cut command in your faith, then I say it should be followed. I don't see how exposure of hair is problematic, but I do not claim to be a prophet, either!
I again seem to be missing something, as I feel that some simply refuse to answer the question: Are these so called laws, really delivered by God, or are they simply laws based on the cultures in which these religions where established? I believe the later is the right answer. Let’s not forget that if you believe in the Creation as described in the book of genesis, then you will have to wonder why god created Adam and Eve naked, with sexual part and then changed his mind a few though sand years later?
I think dressing modestly is not a bad idea, encouraging both men and women to move away from vanity is a great thing. But let’s not keep confusing what has been set by men to what God wants, especially since all the text that is available to us was written by men and translated over time.
On a personal level, I find it extremely difficult to believe that a mighty being who had created the universe in six days would really care whether we wore pants or dresses; I would like to believe that God would be more concerned with our actions not our appearances.
Thank you
The world's biggest website on the subject of the hijab is called http://www.headscarf.net and is edited by a Muslim. It is quite clear that, indeed, the Quran does not oblige women to wear the garment. Quoted on this website is the late, great Dr. Zaki Badawi – probably the only truely independent sheikh for many decades. He is right to say that the headscarf is not required in Islam. And many Muslim women are now accepting this.
Hi,I read most of the comments and I thought I would pour my thoughts.I am a muslim woman who observes not only hijab but also wears the burkha(cloak) and the face veil.I did not used to wear the face veil until two years ago and then something in my urged me to think about it.I personally feel that the intrepretation of the holy Quran should be left to the scholars who devote and dedicate their lives in doing this job and who are specially educated for years in this field.Our job as muslims is to follow what these universally reknowed scholars have interpreted.Also Hijab cannot be one's choice if that person is a muslim.If the person is a muslim then every word of his Lord is an order for him/her.And if there is an ambiguity about a certain practice,then our devotion requires us to make our Lord happy by doing what could be the safest possible thing rather than trying to find out allowances so that we can escape from doing it.This is not being a true muslim.Being true muslims is about submitting to one's Lord and leading one's life as per his commands.
There is a very wrong notin about hijab.Hijab is covering oneself such that one's form and shape is not revealed.Also as we are required to hide our beauty from strangers we are required to cover our hair ad face too.A lot of people here have written that they find a wome's hair attractive but if you think about it would you ever find a women beautiful who has beautiful hair but face full of red boils ?not really.A women when steps out of the house has to go out in such an attire that would not attract a stranger's attention.For this purpose to be attained it is not at all allowed for her to wear trendy,colorful abayas or hijabs.She needs to wear plain,unattractive colored outfit which is loose enough and would not reveal her body shape.Some people find this to be an opression but I think that revealing ones beauty and attracting and inviting strangers around is not oppression but "something else".In Islam a women's beauty is too valuable to be diplayed to the public.It is exclusively her husbands previlege to enjoy her beauty which sounds so right.It is not that she wears this completely covering dress at home.When she is home she is the Queen of her house and she could wear and dress up the ways she wants.When in front of her blood relations who she can trust for eg. her father,brother etc she can show her face, hair etc being in the boundaries of modesty.When we are talking about this religious aspect called hijab which is the order from the Lord for the believer then as a true beleiver it is our duty to merely follow it and not think about what others have to say or feel about it.A lot of people here have pointed out that women who wear burkha,hijab and face veil catch much more attention.It really depends on where the woman lives, if she lives in Asian countries like India or Pakistan or in the middle eastern countries no man looks at her since there is nothing to look at and it is a very common sight in these countries to find women completely covered.It is like watching a plain cloth move by!!!If the woman lives in the western countries then men do look at her but with surprise at something that is completely new to them,something that they have never seen before.If someone is looking with lust at a women who is not revealing any of the components of her beauty (face or hair or body color and shape), then the most probable reason could be that the person in question has some psychotic disorder that he needs to get treated immediately.
For those people who feel pity for the muslim women who have to wear hijab during the hot summers,all I have to say that I am one of those who wears this attire in all weathers and here I am very much alive.Infact this dress safeguards us against skin cancers which is a fact proven by the researchers.In countries like India where summers are too hot, women who wear this dress dont die.May be it feels a little hot but you get used to it and then one should remember the rewards one would get for the suffereings that we have gone through for pleasing our Lord. This life will end and it sure will and very soon we will be there standing on the dooms day, answering for our deeds.
Lastly our Lord who is the All Wise, has given us orders as to what we should and shouldn't do and He knows the best.We ignorant people should simply follow His commands and not burden our small, weak brains to think and argue about the already commanded things.In this exteremely wordly life we have lost the true meaning and purpose of our life.We muslims were created to worship the Lord and this life is our test…we would be tested in every way of our life,how we spent our lives, did we succeed in following the commands of our Almighty or was the devil successful in drifting us apart from the right things by trying to induce in us the so called "logical thinking".Life is all about worshipping our lord and following every word of His command as He is worthy of it and it would be disrespectful to doubt and argue and introduce our own foolish thoughts for something that our Almighty,the All wise has already ordered for us.Ther rest of what we do eg earn to live,shop ,do business et are a very small part of our lives.
All the evils in the society eg extramarital affairs,adultery,fornication AIDS are the result of the liberal western values and too much intermingling of sexes andf Hijab if followed in its tue sense would seperate the sexes would protect us from all these evils in the society.
Salaam….I found a wonderful web site that sells MashAllah great hijab. http://www.starscarves.com/
Quran is a complete book, since Allah does not point that women should cover their head, then this is really a chocie not a must.
wow,XYZ
I think you may have convinced me, I will go and bye a Birka for my wife tomorrow…not….
I can not believe that you think Allah gives a dam about what we wear, after all he/she did create the heavens and the earth and everything on it including al the beauty, it is amazing to me that you really believe that god commanded women to wear a Birka and only placed us on this planet to suffer, if that if truly the case then he must be a cruel god.
I think instead of relying on the interpretations of some so called scholars, who tend to interpret things to suite their own needs, maybe you should pick up the Koran and read it for your self and trust that if what is in it is truly the word of god, he would have then given you the ability to understand it.
Hijab should be a choice and not forced. Muslims should be entitled to interpret their faith freely and no one (husband, father, regime, society) should force anyone to wear it.
Too many regimes force Muslims to wear it. They concentrate on things like this and Jihad but not on the economy needs of the country. The church should stay out of politics: if someone who is a Mullah or an priest or a Rabbi wants to be in politics, they should do a degree in political science not join the clergy. The reason that clerics make bad governers is that they are trained in implementing one thing: religion. Governance of a country requires a lot more than just that!!
The regime in a country is there for 4 main purposes:
1. Make the nation safe.
2. Attracting investment/creating wealth from resources.
3. Creating and maintaining public services.
4. Punishing murderers, thiefs, rapists, fraudsters and torturers.
Regimes do NOT have the right to:
1. Tell people what to dress in.
2. Tell people what they can and can't drink.
3. Tell people to practice a particular faith.
4. Force people to go to war or join an army.
5. Murder innocent civilians.
6. Put the country in jeopardy.
7. Adopt an aggressive policy.
(Many of these 7 points can be applied to a lot of Islamic countries but also to the Bush and Blair regimes).
Forcing people to wear Hijab (eg. Saudi Arabia, parts of Iran, parts of Iraq) or forcing them not to (eg. France, Turkey, parts of Iran) is wrong. If the Iranian government come along to a village and say you must wear it and an Iranian monarchist rebel group say that you must not, both are wrong!! It is the person's choice. How DARE a government or a rebel group for that matter say otherwise. Now, the current President in Iran has a PhD and is obviously less voodoo-ish than the clerics who formerly lead the country (infamous for his anti Israel stuff and pro-nuke, but he is probably the most pro-woman President there since 1978): he may well be the man who ends this. BUT: he is only one man against a whole government who do want it.
Usually, these Islamic Sharia-based regimes are based on a narrow and often compromised version of Islam. We too often forget that there are other forms of Islam and that the faith has a lot more to offer than repressive governments and jihad.
We had it with Christianity, too. The Spanish inquisition and all that burning of women (compare this with stoning), the general anti-woman attitude and the fascist way of dealing with non-believers. Christianity now is a liberal and diverse faith but it had its dark times, too, when Kings hid behind faith to justify tyrrany.
Its naive to think that a piece of cloth is going to prevent a woman from being raped. Realisticly.
Assalamu Alaikum: I have had the opportunity to read your blogs. I am not judging anyone, just will be stating an observation and an opinion, Inshallah.
Most all women feel that they do not have to cover their hair, because Allah did not state it in the Qur'an. However it is "implied". We must remember that the hair is a part of a womans beauty, (in the bible it is a man's glory). Men get turned on by hair just as quickly. Most even have a fetish about hair! Baldness is another turn on for men, but may not be for one who is on Chemotherapy.
Over the years we have argued about women covering their hair, and it will be argued long after most of us are dead and gone. So, while we are alive and enclosed in our right thinking mind, we should at least
follow the "implied". Most of us are proud to have hair. Just think: What would you do if you had a scalp disease that is not curable, what if your hair was burned to your head in a fire, or have missing plugs that hair will never grow there? I will gaurantee you that many of us will run over the store clerks to buy scarves and Hijabs.
Funny isn't it that our dunya modesty will make us cover our heads, but not an "implied" plea from our Lord to protect you from at least being harassed!! I often tell my students and young ladies that the first duty is to be obedient to Allah and last think of what we want to do or not to do.
Allah says in the Qur'an, (although it speaks about marriage subject, it
works well with this thought)
"There are things that we think are good for us, that may NOT be
good for us, and there are things that WE think are bad for us ,
might just BE good for us" (Paraphrased)
Maybe it is about time we stop thinking about why hijab is NOT for us,
and think about would Allah Ta'ala be pleased if I observed wearing the
hijab EVEN if it means not "having our rights of choice" HMMMMMMMMMM
I have aways been interested in the Arab Culture. I have lived in two Islamic countries: 17 months in Morocco, and 11 months in Iraq. I had many friends in both countries. Also, I have made brief visits to Kuwait and Qatar.
It is good to find a website that explaines how people feel about some of the issues that non-Muslims hear about, but don't understand.
Gregory
as with all things in the quran, hijab is recommended…"there is no compulsion in religion, the right direction is henceforth distinct from the wrong."(surat al baqarah) but if a woman wants to cover herself in order to guard her respect, and protect men from thinking about her; she should wear the hijab as allah(swt) recommended thru his holy prophet.
if you want to follow the advice of the quran, it is your CHOICE.
There is no fixed standard as to the style of dress or type of clothing to wear, as long as it meets the following requirements: covering everything but the face and hands; looseness; thickness (not to show the body); not flashy; modesty; and be feminine.
If the hijab doesn’t meet all these requirements it is no hijab no matter what, which brings me to the comment of Abu Sinan as well, the application of some girls doesn’t mean this is hijab. Hijab must meet all requirements.
I have been selling a variety of products like arm coverings, gloves and head scarves in different colours and designs and did some videos on youtube on how to wear the hijab and received severa requests on various designs which is a very good thing. My point being that the hijab does not have to be black but it should not be too flashy either as Ashtrey said.
Beyond the veil
My modest dress that you see
As a sign of oppression
Is for me the symbol of ultimate liberation
It urges you to look beyond the veil
To peel the skin
To peep through the physical
The limited… the confined
Straight into the essence
The infinite … the boundless
It’s a glaring statement
I am more than just a body
I am a mind… a heart
And a soul
Don’t just stop there
At the door
Come in
Get to know me
For what I really am
It gives me contentment
And great satisfaction
With my femininity
It gives me dignity
As I refuse to be portrayed
As a sex object
It gives me freedom
To choose my dress
Not only wearing what men desire
It gives me protection
From all undesired attention
For my intimacy I only share
With the one I love
Does that make any sense to you?
21-2-2006
nahida Izzat
Amen!
Nahida,
I'm 100 percent supportive to give the women her freedom to choose for herself. At the same time, I pray for those close minded people to look beyond what the veil 'covers'. It's not just a face, it is another human being who has no less rights than what a man have.
Salam Haitham,
glad you took the time to write about this. I would vote that it's a must AND a choice.
Go see a swedish convert to islam (or is it a nun?)…
http://sydsvenskan.se/skane/article230075.ece
//Imaan
Thanks for the link Imaan :)
Your argument about education "not working" in the West doesn't hold water. If hijab "works" better than education, then why do rapes still happen in predominantly Muslim countries? Why do MORE rapes and incidents of molestation happen in places like Saudi Arabia than in places like Canada? Clearly the hijab is failing there.
Miriam,
Do they? I will be interested to read your source of information about this statement.
Did you read this part of the post?
* In Canada, a woman is sexually assaulted every 6 minutes,
* 1 in 3 women in Canada will be sexually assaulted at some time in their lives,
* 1 in 4 women are at the risk of rape or attempted rape in her lifetime,
* 1 in 8 women will be sexually assaulted while attending college or university, and
* A study found 60% of Canadian university-aged males said they would commit sexual assault if they were certain they wouldn't get caught.
The Hijab issue is such a tricky issue. I think Islamic women have to be given a choice. A genuine choice free of social pressure. If this is the case then they should be free to where it.
"Why do MORE rapes and incidents of molestation happen in places like Saudi Arabia than in places like Canada?"
miriam you talk absolute crap. PLEASE provide us "ignorant fools" with the data to back up your ridiculously unbelievable claims otherwise, STFU!
miriam you lame ass xxxx, this is for you.
"Why can a Saudi leave his wallet, laptop and digital camera on the front seat of a car, as I did, and return to find everything intact? Americans live in gated subdivisions with security alarms; child molesters roam free in every neighborhood."
http://www.saudi-american-forum.org/Newsletters2005/SAF_Item_Of_Interest_2005_05_30.htm
A long time ago I read The Satcharita, the story of Sai Baba ke Shirdi who was honoured by both Muslims and Hindus.
There was a story in it of a devout Muslim family who visited Sai Baba. One of Sai Baba's devotees noticed the eyes of the Muslim family's daughter and he was enchanted by their beauty. He immediately became ashamed of himself for having noticed her beauty and tried hard to stop looking at her. When the daughter bowed to Baba for a blessing, her veil fell away from her face and her full beauty was revealed to the devotee who was overcome by it. This caused him even further shame.
After the family left, Sai Baba turned to his devotee and asked him why he felt such shame at noticing the beauty of that girl. The devotee could barely answer.
Sai Baba said to the devotee that he should not feel such shame, that Allah created that beauty and nothing Allah created is shameful. Sai Baba said that as long as one remembers that that beauty is Allah's creation then there is no shame in admiring it. We do not cover up the rose because its beauty is there for us to enjoy.
The problem comes when man doesn't control his lust. Men should be able to control their animal urges. Hiding women behind yards of cloth will not help them learn to control themselves; and it doesn't as rape in Muslim countries still happens.
I'm not opposed to the hajib. But I do not appreciate how it is being abused; either as a 'symbol' of Islamic faith where I had been taught that symbols are not permitted or by imams who do not do more to men who can not control their urges.
SALAAAAAAM FRNDZ,
I READ THE WHOLE DEATAIL ABOUT THE HIJAB, AND I WIL COMMENT ON IT WITH THE REFERENCE OF 2 MAJOR POINTS.
1) THE HOLY LADY OF OUR RELIGION(MISS, MARIAM ALAIHISALAM) A MOTHER OF OUR HOLY PROPHET EISSA ALAIHISSALAM.
AS I READ ABOUT MARIAM ALAIHISSALAM THT SHE WAS PERMITTED TO PRAY WITH MALE'S IN MASJID, AND OBVIOUSLY SHE WAS NOT COVERING HER FACE.
2) SECONDLY, WHEN WE ARE OFFERING HAJJ SO THERE IS NO RESTRICTION ON ANY MUSLIM SISTER TO COVER HER FACE, EVEN EVERY TYPE OF MALE ARE THERE AT THE MOMENT FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD.
DUE TO THESE FACTORS I CONCLUDED THAT HIJAB IS NOT MUST BUT A CHOICE. YEAH ITS TRUE THT HEAD SHOULD B COVER BCOZ OURS RELIGIOUS LADIES ALSO COVERED THEIR HEADS.
i would say just this much— hijab is not a true criteria 2 judge da character of a muslim female—i personally have encountered more hijaabi muslim ready 2 jump into bed then non-hijabi muslim females—believe me—whats in ur heart is important—wearing a cloth over ur head or hiding ur face or appearing in a ninja clad attire can tell somewhat but not da whole picture—unless a woman freely chooses 2 wear hijab, then that wearing hijab is of no use, its just symbolic—for example, in saudi, i would notice many women wearing that black dress but when they would be outside da kingdom, everything would cum off and a lot, though not all, would b ready 2 jump into bed—i just wished we muslims would adhere 2 true standards of islam—not just symbolic—dont get me wrong, im not saying that every woman wearing da hijab is of that loose character, by no means but all im saying is that one a woman has da total freedom 2 wear or not 2 wear, is not threatened, physically,emotionally, psychologically or financially, and then she wants 2 wear hijab, then u can positively say that she is doing so out of total conviction, even though u may personally not agree with her choice 2 wear hijab. but in saudi and khaleej countries, al woman, prostitutes, and strong-charactered females alike have 2 veil so u have 2 c through da veil or hijab for that matter 2 c if that person is loose or not—u cannot say that just becuz she is wearing da hijaab or veil that she is "good" girl—even if she behave nice and prays five times, becuz she may be just showing—i guess most of got my point!!
about the right of choice what to wear and how to look and other choices which changes the life is possible to discuss on a new forum over here http://umabbas.net/forum/index.php … thanks and have a great day.
This is a great post! Very informative!
Thank you!! I posted something about 'hijab' on my blog today and wanted to learn more.
Again, thank you for this!!
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