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Norwegian magazine has published the Prophet cartoons:
A Norwegian Christian magazine has published a set of controversial caricatures of the prophet Mohammed after months of uproar in the Muslim world over a Danish paper's decision to print the same cartoons. Repeating a move by conservative Danish paper Jyllands-Posten last September, Magazinet published the controversial drawings in the name of 'freedom of expression' on Tuesday. Magazinet editor Vebjoern Selbekk said he was not afraid of the prospect of facing the same indignation and even death threats that faced the Danish paper after it published the cartoons. Meanwhile, Denmark's prime minister on Tuesday accused a group of local Muslims of smearing the country's reputation in the Middle East. Anders Fogh Rasmussen said he was 'stunned' that leaders of the Islamic Faith Community had traveled to Egypt, Syria and Lebanon 'to stir up attitudes against Denmark and Danes', observing that 'misinformation' about Denmark had appeared in the Arab media after their tour of the Middle East. A spokesman for the Islamic Faith Community, contended that 'We did nothing wrong by seeking help abroad and making use of our freedom of speech.'
"Freedom of speech." Noble right used to conduct racist activities among many other controversial activities.
Last december, responding to a complaint by the Organization of Islamic Conferences (OIC) over the twelve caricatures of the prophet Mohammad published in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten last September, Louise Arbour – United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights – has appointed two UN experts on racism to carry out a detailed investigation into what Arbour characterizes as a "disrespect for belief."
Why did Jyllands-Posten publish the cartoons? The Copenhagen Post explains: "Jyllands-Posten called for and printed the cartoons by various Danish illustrators, after reports that artists were refusing to illustrate works about Islam, out of fear of fundamendalist retribution. The newspaper said it printed the cartoons as a test of whether Muslim fundamentalists had begun affecting the freedom of expression in Denmark."
You see, when the Danish newspaper published these cartoons, they claimed they did that as a 'test of whether Muslim fundamentalists had begun affecting the freedom of expression in Denmark.' So, now I guess Norway wants to conduct the same test.
Just like someone 'finger your ass' (excuse my French) and you are not suppose to react or even say 'ouch'. It's 'freedom of expression', and they express that the way they see it fit. But if you do the same, you will be called all names. So, don't dare calling them racist!!
In case you never saw the Prophet Mohammad's drawings:
Other posts on the same subject:
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{ 125 } Comments
Clearly there is no word in Arabic for hypocrite…after all the abuse they heap on others, it is pretty amazing that they can get so indignant when someone in another country pokes fun at them. I hope to see more cartoons and thank you for reprinting them!
I am even more amazed at the European and American bleeding hearts who defend the sensitivities of these fundamentalist Arab barbarians…these are medieval, racist, misogynistic folks…ask the Armenians or Sudanese or Kurds or Jews or Copts or women or … about Arab/Muslim tolerance of others!
Being judgemental is bad, but having no judgement is worse…the fundamentalist Muslims are a scary group and it is commendable that some Danes are brave enough to call them on it…I applaud you!
So, Dave says,
"…I am even more amazed at the European and American bleeding hearts who defend the sensitivities of these fundamentalist Arab barbarians…these are medieval, racist, misogynistic folks…ask the Armenians or Sudanese or Kurds or Jews or Copts or women or … about Arab/Muslim tolerance of others!…"
Let's agree that the papers had a legitimate question in mind, that is, what would the reaction be if they published these twelve cartoons. Let's say their interest was in determining how much flak any cartoonist would get for illustrating a book about the Muslim Prophet. By some reports, this was their stated intent. However, they should have anticipated just the kind of reaction they have recieved. They knew that all religious people have been sensitive to any kind of commentary about their beliefs. So, for example, the fundamentalist Christians seem to react in the same way in the United States when tv shows depict Jesus, however sympathetically to some people. There will be a lot of others who will scream, bitch, and moan, until the image or the show is pulled out of public sight.
Dave may have heard that when a cartoon was recently presented criticizing the war effort, several military officers decided the cartoon insulted the soldiers who have been woulded themselves. It is not just religious people who have been sensitive.
So, is Dave advocating that we not be sensitive to the people who have said they've been hurt by such cartooning? Or, is Dave saying just we should not care to understand or sympathize with Muslims?
I still have a lot of questions I'd like answered about these cartoons because they do not seem to be designed to just test the waters of Muslim sensibilities. That is, as I've tried to point out, they are most all the kind of images that criticize the Muslim religiuon for being only interested in bombs , violence, repression, and so forth. Of course these kind of images would rattle a lot of cages.
Why put out such one sided cartoons all with the same kind of cranky tone? I suspect there may have been the expectation that the Muslim community would react just as it has done. This seems just what some people would want who wanted to have westerners think the Muslim community was a cranky intolerant sort.
So, I may just be interested in determining why such cartooning was published. Maybe it was done, not just to investigate whether it would be safe to illustrate Muslim children's books, but to provoke the kind of response that came about, because that kind of response would be expected and useful.
I think one thing we all could do is try to understand just what these pepaers were trying to do. Is it true that they were trying to find out whether it would be "safe" to illustrate books? Would they have used these cartoons to illustrate chidren's books about the Prophet? I doubt it.
One more comment about Dave's piece. I am not sure that the same people who were responsible for the problems with Armenians, the Sudanese, the Kurds, Jews, or Copts, are the same people who are now hurt by these cartoons. Dave seems to be suggesting that the fact that some Muslims might have been involved in some crime, we need not thereafter ever have to be concerned to understand Muslims or have respect for them ever again. This sounds fairly irrational to me. But, is Dave really suggesting such a radical and criminal policy?
I hear much about Muslims demanding "respect" in this matter. One the prerequisites to being respected is (surprise) being respectable.
Look at these Muslims up in arms over a handful of drawings. Their reactions. Their words. Their deeds. Indeed, their entire contribution as a people and a culture to this generation of humanity on Earth.
I ask you, is this behavior respectable? Nay. Respect where respect is due. A people such as this are deserving of as much contempt as the civilized world can muster.
Muslims in general and especialle in the Muslim world will not have gained respect in the west by their reaction. The boycot was fine and it did set things in motion but the threats and flagburning will have leave most westerners less trusting of the Muslim communities. Now everybody will worry that they might do something with out knowing it that will cause muslims to explode in anger and this will not bring them closer to each other.
ps: At this point I dont know how many of the Muslims agreed with this behavior but I really hope its ridiculously few.
The fact that according to Islamic religion the bare depiction of Mohamed in painting or drawing is sinful and derogatory is not something that a secular, Independent newspaper needs to take into account. If Muslims feel its wrong to draw pictures of their prophet no one is forcing then to do so. But they cannot force their religion upon others. Jews feel it is sinful and wrong to make any attempt at painting god and you will never find a religious Jew who will tell you differently but do they forbid the rest of the world to do so? Although Islam has adopted the historical figure of Mohamed as a religious figure and has chosen to worship him as their prophet it does not mean that Islam now has a monopoly over him. He was a human who actually lived on this earth. He is part of the human history and the bare fact that Muslims believe in him will not stop me from using his figure and his life’s story as I whish. Mohamed belongs to humanity just as any other piece of our history. Our depiction of his figure does not mean that we do not respect Islam; it only means that we are not Muslim.
Where does the idea for cartoons and caricatures derive from? It derives from an effort to criticize a certain idea or opinion through the use of drawing rather than words. It is a practice that has been around for hundreds of years if not more and has always been regarded as a harsher form of critical expression than words wove into a sentence for no real reason other than human natural subjectivity and the fact that the pictures can be seen and understood universally while an article requires the understanding of the language and the patience to sit and read it. However, this does not change the fact that words can and usually are the harsher from of criticism. More so in this case, there are countless books, articles, academic studies- and what not- whose criticism towards Islam or the Arab culture is by far more slandering and humiliating than those poor cartoons. Is the expression of criticism towards Islam wrong by itself? Is criticism towards any religion wrong? I think not. All religions are an attempt at explaining life and the universe. Any religion is a theory about the origin of the universe, about life and the reason for it. I don’t understand why people insist on trying to make religion into something sacred, holy, and untouchable even when they don’t believe in it themselves. When a professor describes a scientific theory that he believes to be correct do we cringe from expressing disagreement? From criticizing? Religion is no different and should not be treated differently. If I disagree I will criticize and make known my disagreement in all forms at my disposal including, writing, verbal expression and drawing cartoons.
Terrorist are people that create fear by use of violence.
Since some these muslims reacted with such violence(burning flags, assulting embassies & even calling for Bin Laden) to 'offensive' articles crticising them or whatever, does that put all those protesters and whoever calling for violence very much in line with the Terrorist's idology?
I am sure if 'they' could get their hands on bombs or boeing 747, some place(usually Western ones) would be a target soon?
I think it is a sad day for all Islam when such violent demonstrations can be invoked over a few peoples ignorant cartoons. This is exactly why the west is so confused over our religion, and will never truly except us. There are far too many that will burn a flag, or kidnap a foreigner, or worse, execute them, for cartoons?
How much worse is it to condemn a whole country, burn their embassy to the ground, hold hostage their citizens that have been kidnaped, run through the streets chanting death threats, all for the cartoons that these few people are responsible for? In doing so, we do not solve the problem, but merely justify the ridicule. This shows the west a very unstable populace, that can easily be invoked to violence. One day your friend, trying to build relationships both political as well as opening trade for growth, a key step in the acceptance and recognition of legitimacy as a true nation. And the next you have these same people burning your buildings down because of what a news paper has done. How could a relationship of trust from Nation to Nation ever flourish in that kind of unstable, unpredictable, violence?
That would be like all of the Christians in the world demonstrating, kidnaping, killing, burning, chanting in the streets death to all of Islam for what a very few have done in the name of Islam.
I agree that there have been horrible deeds perpetrated against us both in the past, as well as on going atrocities around the globe. But these wrongs done to us are being done by Governments, policies, and military actions that attempt to justify the air strike of a religious gathering for whom they believe to be inside. Not by the people of these nations themselves.
In fact, I have never been to a country who’s citizens have been more accepting of my faith than the United States. They even have strict, powerful laws that protect me from what is called “Hate Crimes” that makes it a felony to even threaten me because of my faith. There are not, nor will there ever be similar laws, that are enforced with such clarity, protecting Christians in any Arab country.
I am not advocating the acceptance of its government, but neither am I acceptable to the idea that we should chop the heads off of the innocents because of what a few are responsible for.
Do you not see the contradictions that we show? In the eyes of the world, Islam is fast becoming a religion of hatred and violence, and we hurt our cause of the acceptance of the truth because of it.
So go ahead, burn an embassy, stomp on a flag that represents an entire people, not just the few that may ridicule us, kidnap a reporter, chop a few heads off. You imbeciles. You are doing more damage to me, to the truth, every time I try to share my faith, or attempt to convert someone, than a thousand of such cartoons, and I pray that someday you will be held responsible for the damage that you perpetrate to our faith.
It is all a pretext for a third khalifat.
Why did you come to Europe?
What would happen to me if I(a jewish atheist) will go Syria?
It is better to draw than to cut non-muslims heads.
Thanks to nonexistent god we are stronger and can stop your human hating
Propaganda that sells as religious believes.
to all those of you who do NOT know what islam is all about make sure you step aside and don't even criticise. first of all if you think that islam is THE ONLY RELIGION THAT HAS BEEN CHOPPING OFF HEADS OR CAUSING TERROR THEN YOU ARE DEAD WRONG. did you forget about jail "abu ghoreib" in Iraq what the soldiers had done to the prisoners? did you totally forget about antoine who happens to be a christian by the way and his followers who have been smuggling weapons to assassinate american soldiers? i guess you really have no idea what you are talking about. terrorists are those who do not fear god or even believe in him…there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MUSLIMS AND TERRORISTS so please amanda make sure you use better language and more understanding as well as more education before stating your opinion
YA RIGHT SASHA YOU KNOW IT ALL. if u were a jewish person YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO EVEN ENTER SYRIA SO WHAT ARE YOU EVEN TALKING ABOUT? come people just make a little more sense
Iran this is to you too: you were mentioning all the negative facts about Moslems or arabs. 1. iran is NOT THE ONLY COUNTRY WHO HAS WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION I DONT KNOW IF YOU KNOW THAT KOREA HAS SOME, RUSSIA AS WELL AS JAPAN…OH SORRY I FORGOT HOW UNEDUCATED SOME OF YOU ARE. 2. increase of unemployment? did you ever take a look at the economy or daily life of many americans? germans? french people? 3.increase in crime rate? oh ya did u ever watch reality tv or discovery channel? i guess you dont even know what that is. well if you make sure you check out the documentaries they have about america's daily crimes. 4. Selling Iranian women as sex slaves in the United Arab Emarets?????? excuse me but then you havent heard of the abuse of children particularly FEMALES who happened to be sold everyday in some of canada's regions or america's…..again i repeat seems like you know nothing about that too…..so make sure you read a little bit more and watch important documentaries that would help develop your WIDE KNOWLEDGE
i have been interested in reading all of your commands since being a lawyer requires to defend that opinion and right which is worth to be defended…talking about my own pt of view. i, as a lawyer think that ppl who dont have an idea bout the islam should keep their opinion 2 themselves…ive lived all religions and i'm a moslem…it is very wrong to judge a religion specially when we talk about "ISLAM" this is the only religion which is based on peace,love etc. Moslems r not terrorists as u all " UNEDUCATED" ppl say.. we,the moslems never ever judged the jews or the christians bcoz every1 has his own religion but 2 start drawin caricatures bout our prophet mohammad pbuh. dont any judge our religion!!! y dont u make fun of the buddhists? or the ppl who worship the cow??? u dont and ul never do that bcoz theyr unimportant religions …UNLIKE ISLAM and all religions know that islam is the one religion which is totally correct…this is all a trick …the denish ppl is tryin 2 provoke us ( the islam) so that we fight back 2 defend our religion and then theyr gonna say huh u see only bcoz if a caricature ur makein such a big deal and that we proved that we r terrorists and if we stay quiet about this mess they say that we r losers or weak or smth like that…well WE WILL NOT STAY QUIET AND LAUGH ABOUT THIS WE HAVE TO STAND UP AND FIGHT FOR OUR RELIGION BCOZ NOONE JUDGES US-WE HAVE OUR OWN JUDGE "ALLAH" AND HE WILL AND NOT ANY STUPID OR SILLY PPL WHO THINK THEYR MIGHTY OR POWERFUL ALLAH WILL SHOW ALL PPL WHO IS RIGHT AND WHO IS WRONG !!! When the world is near judgement day we will all inshallah ya rab look at u down to earth while we are sittin in heaven !!! ALLAH W AKBAR W OUR PROPHET MOHAMMAD PBUH !!! so u all really better stay quiet and watch us standing up to fight for peace which is a word other religions will never get to know..
I believe Gin (in post #127) is a true ambassador for Islam.
The last line of his/her submission speaks volumes about his/her faith and the "so u all better stay quiet" bit is a wonderful example of exhibited willingness to listen to and digest other points of view in a peaceful way.
Also, the rampant use of capital letters and multiple puncuation marks does not in any way suggest any form of insecurity, I'm sure.
Well, that seems very hard to argue with. I do agree with you on many points, but unfortunately, it is a very complicated problem, and will not be solved here. I do find it very disturbing that many of our faith are so very quick to violence, often stirred to flames by the ones that are behind the scenes. It only portrays a front similar to wild beasts being goaded into violent tantrums by the rattling of a cage. Very unfortunate. Very disturbing future for all of Islam because of the ignorance of the masses in the middle east. I would hazzard a guess that things of this very nature will be the undoing of years of progress towards the establishment of a Palestinian state. Keep the faith my brother.
Looks like someone FINALLY found the right Muslim button to push for self distruction, it's called a cartoon of there leader. There is a God
And yes, I do agree with you 128, people like that only serve to stoke the flames higher. Allah be willing, all such judgmental view points will be shown as mere human anger towards persicution that should be welcomed, for the treasures that it will earn in heaven.
But I do understand such anger, it is a challenge on a daily basis to persevere and over come our human skin. The true teachings show us that when we succumb to such petty human emotions evoked by something as simple as a cartoon, while we may whole heartedly disagree with it, such violent out bursts only show how many that claim to be Muslims, are only lost sheep, and insecure of their faith.
Oh goodness, I have only just read 122, from mac. I believe that you have hit upon a truth my friend.
I wasn't aware that Islam is considered a Race. Racism only applies to denigration of someones ethnic background. Muslims may be of any race or national background. A person who ridicules anothers Religion could better be described as a bigot. However most likely the perpetrators of this incident probably aren't affiliated with any religion. They are most likely Athiests.
Personally, I find the burning of my nations flag – seemingly a daily ritual in muslim countries – to be a deeply offensive assault on my cherished institutions, traditions and secular values. Yet, I, like the vast majority of those in the west, would fight to maintain the right to engage in such expression, even by offended Muslims. Similarly, I'm reminded of the art exhibit in the U.S. several years ago featuring a piece depicting a crucifix submerged in urine. Although many Christians and others urged a narrow boycott of the exhibit and also questioned the expenditure of tax dollars on controversial art, I don't recall a single voice calling for the artist's death. Indeed, on a daily basis, one can find extreme examples of political and social criticism affecting every quarter of society in the West; nevetheless, we choose to endure or ignore the offensive noises on the fringe for the sake of an overarching principle. But the Muslim world now demands sweeping apologies from various governments (none directly responsible), invokes an absolute immunity from the free expression of criticism in the West in any form, and, of course, pulls their inevitable trump card of threatened violence and death to the entire Western civilization. In shocking contrast, the utter silence of this supposed sensitive and tolerant muslim world spoke volumes in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, the Madrid bombings, the London bombings, the Malaysia bombings, the Paris riots, and Iran's recent denial of the Holocaust (atually, mere tacit approval was a kind blessing compared to the overt celebrations througout Islam). Now, to compound this hypocrisy, the irony of the fact that these blustering threats and outrageous reactions literaly breath life into the silly caricatures at issue is lost on these people. As justification, many of the entries in this forum seek to draw a line between acceptable political criticism and blind respect for "religous belief." This distinction, however, ignores the fact that Islam does not recognize any boundry between religion and politics. In sum, Islam attempts to define political, ethical and social policy across the board. Islam is not simply about deeply held personal convictions, which arguably may be entitled to some special deference and respect within the public forum. Rather, it manifests as multiple theocracies and currently shapes an aggressive emerging world view. Its consistency lies in its regressive, intolerant, entitled and ultimately violent ideology. One obvious symptom is its complete inability to deal rationally and reasonably with a relatively benign political cartoon. This behaviour isn't just pathetic, its dangerous. Which, of course, brings us back to the legitimate point of the offending cartoons.
I UNDERSTAND THE HURT THAT MUST HAVE BEEN FELT BY SOME BY THE CARTOONS, BUT IS THE APPROPRIATE RESPONSE TO BURN THE DANISH EMBASSY. I HAD BEEN IN SAUDI FOR SIX MONTHS AS A SOLDIER IN 1991. WE WERE BRIEFED ON THE CUSTOMS, ESPECIALLY ABOUT THE LOWER CLASS TREATMENT AND VIEWS OF WOMEN. VERY QUICKLY I SAW THAT WAS TRUE, AND I DIID MY BEST TO ABIDE BY SAUDI CUSTOM. MY CROSS WAS ALWAYS HIDDEN AS ANYTHING BUT ISLAM IS ILLEGAL, I ALWAYS HAD A MALE ESCORT WHEN OUT OF THE COMPOUND, I STILL HAVE AN ABIA THAT I WORE IN THE TOWNS. IN RETURN MANY SAUDI MEN WOULD TRY TO GRAB AND PAW AT ME EVEN WITH THE MALE ESCORT IF THEY WEREN'T RIGHT NEXT TO ME. I AM NOT PROMISCUOUS, NEVER WAS, THE THANKS I RECIEVED WAS DEHUMANIZING HUMILIATION, OFTEN. HERE EVERYONE HAS THE FREEDOM OF RELIGION, FREEDOM OF SPEECH, YES THERE HAVE BEEN CARTOONS INSULTING TO THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION, THE JEWISH RELIGION PRINTED LOCALLY. THE WAS SOME FUSS, BUT NOT VIOLENCE,NOT DEATH THREATS. PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND THE ISLAMIC RELIGION, BUT WHY WOULD THEY WANT TO WHEN IN THE NAME OF ALLAH VIOLENCE AND KILLING IS COMMONPLACE? IT'S ON THE NEWS DAILY, I DIDN'T SEE ANY MUSLIMS STANDING UP FOR THE JEWISH PEOPLE IN ISREAL, WHEN AFTER LEAVING THE GAZA STRIP, THEY WERE ONCE AGAIN ATTACKED. WWII THE DANES SAVED THE MAJORITY OF THE NONCHRISTIAN PEOPLE IN THEIR COUNTRY BY SMUGGLING THEM OUT OR HIDING THEM. THE CARTOONS WERE OFFENSIVE, BUT THE IMAGE BEING PORTRAYED TO THE WORLD FROM THE MIDDLE EAST DOESN'T GIVE A SPARKLING PICTURE OF A UTOPIAN WORLD. ACTIONS REFLECT THE PERSON AND COMMUNITY.
Thank you for posting the "Mohammad" cartoons
so I could see for myself what all the fuss is about
that would trigger rioting agaist the Danish and French
embassies.
My opinion of the cartoon of the head with the
skull in the shape of a bomb is utterly offensive,
for the reason that the cartoonist included the
Qu'ranic symbol of the "Greatest". The cartoonist is a total
idiot. I do not think this cartoon falls under the protections
of freedom of speech–and obviously, he is not free to be so stupid, either.
I live in America. If a cartoon had been scripted of a
Klu Klux Klansman lynching a "Negro" (African American)
on the steps of the U.S. Capital Building under the American
flag, it would not be tolerated as freedom of speech. Likewise,
this cartoon with the bomb for a head should not be tolerated either.
The claim that the Dane's were testing whether "freedom of speech" is being quelched by Muslims living in Denmark is hogwash. Why the Danes would want to meddle in the affairs of
the Moslems is surprising to me. I am thinking that this is another one of those situations where George Bush & Co. have paid
some idiot a huge sum of money to do their dirty work.
While I do not believe in violence, I can hardly blame the
Arab world for not sitting back and taking this abuse.
Why don't people leave the Arabs alone. Aren't they suffering enough. There is an old saying that I was told when living in Morocco years ago reflecting the Arab, hich is as follows:
An Arab will give a stranger in need the shirt off his back, even if it is the only one he owns. But if deceived, the Arab will strike with all of his might. Arabs are the most hospitable people
I learned when living among them in Morocco and in Israel/Palestine. Perhaps, the cartoonist, and the rest of the
ignoramouses, should take an internship into the Arab world and find this out for themselves. Ooops, it may be too late anymore
now as I am sure the good ol' days of the indigenous Arab may be a thing of the past. I hope not, because this would be truly a enourmous loss to all of us around the world; equal to the extinction of the whale or the dolphin or the elephant or the bald eagle.
Thank you.
H. Mizrahi
well i have read most of the comments n have seen how every1 is saying it from his point of view but the most important thing is that the ones who don’t know what Islam is n don’t have any idea of what it talks bout they should not give any comments coz one must have the least amount of knowledge n information bout Islam to have the right to comment bout it n give his opinion so first u must know what ur talking bout to have the right to criticize it. that is for the ones who don’t know what Islam is.n for the ones that r sayin its freedom of speech n freedom to talk n give opinions well i say for them that they r 100% right n im 100% with freedom of speech n believe but r u all sure that this is wat is happenin??? well i will give u a small example of freedom of speech i think that u all know how France is with freedom of speech n believe n how France is always with democracy, well a small example is that a big French writer wrote a book in which he said that the hollacoster(when Jewish people were burnt in hitlers time)he said that it was all a lie n it is a way so that people can b emotional with the Jewish n all of that, well do u know what happened to him bcoz he said his opinion in such a thing? he is now in jail for FREEDOM OF SPEECH that u r all talking bout, so when it is against Jewish there is no freedom of speech, I see. And another example is the manar TV(which is an Islamic tv n is what Israel is doin in Palestine)well y is manar TV forbidden in America n in Europe since u all believe in freedom of speech????? Give me some answers for that can u??? so there is no such a thing of freedom of speech n if there is something called freedom then it should b applied on every1 not just groups of people, don’t u think???
Now for the ones who liked the cartoons bout prophet Mohammed, well all that u can think bout is that Muslims r terrorists, do u know what Muslim religion is n what Islam is???well let me tell u that also Muslims r against what is done in the name of Islam n that is not Islam n what is done in the name of Islam is everything but Islam n u would have known that if u know what Islam is n what prophet Mohammed says wont u???And another thing is that y do u think that for example bin laden or saddam or zarkawi r workin in the name of islam???r u all sure of these peoples backgrounds???well let me give u some information bout them….bin laden worked for the CIA most of his life n the CIA is the one who sent him to Afghanistan, and something else is,do u know y bin laden family was never investigated with??? well I will tell u y ,it is bcoz bin laden family is really close to Bush(the American president) since they have companies 2gether n since Bush n bin ladens work 2gether in petrol n gas.so don’t u see the irony in that???? N in Saddams case well America is the one who helped saddam to get to that place that he was b4 n America is the one who gave saddam his power,n u would know that if u just see farther than ur nose wont u??? so this whole campaign against Muslims n all the talk n work to make Muslims look like terrorists is just done by the ones who want Muslims to look like terrorists not by Muslims coz if u know what Islam is then u would seen that obvious that Islam themselves are against what is done in the name of Islam.And terrorists like binladen or saddam they r just an American project that went wrong in a place n they r just a tool to make the world against Muslims….
And some of u said that Islam is against other religions n against Jewish n Christians ,well I just want to ask those people from where did they get such information n did they ever live with true Muslims or even known true Muslims that r against other religion????well I wont talk alot bout this subject I will just give a line of what prophet mohammed said n what Islam say:LAKUM DYNUKUM WA LY DYNI,n that means that u have ur own religion n I have my own religion n I have no right to hate u or even look at u in a wrong way bcoz of ur religion .that is just a small idea of what Islam is…
Im just saying that u all must know what u r talking about n not just say things u don’t even know what it is n believe me when I say that the media will not provide u with what u need to know, the only way to get to know things is by knowing people not just by watching TV, coz as u will c u will believe n what would make u sure of that what u r watching is right??alot of groups want to make Muslims look bad n terrorists for their own sake so u must not believe everything u hear..n another example is that u know how blacks were killed n hated bcoz of their colour n that was all done in the name of Christianity n also how Jesus was hated in the name of Jewish ,so do u think all Christians r bad n all Jewish r bad???i don’t think so…
The point is that u cant judge a whole religion based on some groups that the religion itself is against.so if some people kill in the name of Islam that does not make all Muslims terrorists, the same thing if a Christian kills in the name of Christianity that does not make all Christians terrorists. If u want to live in peace then u must accept the people around u n respect their believes.
Peace on u all n hope that my message was clear……
Does Islam equate with hate, fear, insecurity, violence and zombie-like obedience?
I wonder if this is the conclusion drawn by the West now more than ever.
And I wonder if such conclusions are truly unfounded…
For years (since 2001 at least)it has been said that the West should get to know "true" Islam before any judgements are made.
Islam is now advertising itself for everyone's consideration once again.
"The face of Islam" is now on the BBC, SKY, CNN and FoxNews for all to see…yet again.
I wonder what the verdict now will be.
Many will not care, though all truly should.
I remember seeing cartoons mocking 9/11, Madrid train bombing, the London bus bombing and the victims of the Bali bombings, and nobody in the Muslim world openly denounced them. In fact, there are daily anti-Semitic cartoon in the Arab papers and no Muslim has ever openly criticized them. If it's okay to mock what's precious to others, then it should be okay to do the same with what's precious to the Moslems. After all, most Moslems who immigrate to the West do so in part because of freedom, including freedom of expression, which is part of what it means to live in a democratic country. It's really unfortunate to see the Islamic radicals hijack the religion and forcefully suppress the voices of moderate and secular Moslems who believe in the values of democracy.
For the record Haitham: Islam is not a race and, as such, the title of your blog is curious.
Perhaps you find such an unfounded charge inflammatory. I do.
Exagerations such as these have lead to riots in the streets.
Were you hoping to add fuel to the fire here?
Is that a responsible thing to do?
i totally agree with with whatever you say ali # 141 and i have no commend on what hicham has said because ali has replied fair enough. i also think that you hicham should make sure again who has caused the 9/11 attacks. if u dont know much about that subject then i ask u not to open it because it seems to be not of your concern. if you woould like to know more about that subject go back to what I-H-O # 138 has said cuz he explains it all. and if after that you dont seem to have understood; then make sure you surrender instead of (quoting ali again) "adding fuel to the fire"
#141 Ali,
I guess you are talking to #140 Hicham, not me!? Otherwise, I lost you, I can't get what you are talking about here!
Assalam_O-Alaikum,:
U all muslims just listen one thing that if you all muslims will be not felt any kind of regret and dpression after seeing al these kind of rubbish illussions and offensive characerters of Prophet(P.B.U.H)
then mark my words that when u will face live after death then God will be annoyed by all of those who did not raised up against these kind of offenive actions of kaffir(west/Europe),so u must understood one more thing that I am Osama ladin who is always ready to fight with these kaffirs but I am ashamed of the muslims like u or anyone who just talk and feel easy and take no reaction atleat neither feel unrest of souls so that a curse on Muslims like you type God will bless u all my child and will gave u all a responsible mind and thought to take a revenge / reacted against these kind of offensaive rubbish Fe-Aman-Allah……
Your not too bright 144, but then, neither are the people that are demonstrating and rioting over a few cartoons. They burned the wrong embassy. The Chilean embassy, located on the first floor in the same building as the Danish mission, was damaged in Saturday's attack. The fire did not appear to touch the Swedish embassy located on the second floor, nor the Danish embassy on the third. I guess the Chileans can start rioting now, if they wanted to.
Time to teach those idiot a good lesson ,who is a boss?
Time to press a button !!!!!! Do it!!!
Agree……it is things like this that people that know nothing of Islam have left, at the end of the day, to judge by.
First the Moslems on this page say "the world does not understand" Islam and have "no intention of understanding". Then when they have the chance to explain, they say it is "laughable… the Moslem world should explain itself for better understanding".
Here is what the non-Moslems are explaining on American websites:
1. Moslems think the pictures say Islam is a violent religion. So, instead of saying, "Islam is not a violent religion", the Moslems say "we will kill you."
2. Moslems do not make pictures of the Prophet. But there are many pictures of the prophet in Moslem countries, so not all Moslems agree about this.
3.The Danish paper had 12 pictures, but 15 pictures went to the Middle East. The 3 extra pictures were very bad. Someone put in 3 more pictures to make trouble.
4. Follow the money. Bush's Saudi friends want to replace Danish butter with Saudi butter. That's why Bush is very quick to say he was against the Danish pictures. Bush's Saudi friends will get more money. It is not about Islam; it is about money.
You see, if the Moslems do not say what they think, other people will say what Moslems think.
#121 Leen,
Yes, we do not read the koran or do not know the teachings of koran. but the actions of muslims are the stuff that reflects what they(or you) believe.
I don't like the cartoons, and I think muslims have every right to protest. but comparing the intensity of the objections and unhappiness of the cartoons, they are far greater than the reaction to the torture at the prison and also at 911(in fact some celebrated).
so does this implicate an association with violence?
Houston, can you hear me??!!!
We found Osama Bin Laden.
quick, track his IP.
anti arab cartoons are in Israel newspaper too. Not a single Arab newspaper will ever published Moses.That's the crux here.
Take a look at Hollywood.Arabs= terorists.
No Arabs went to street for that of course.
Regarding Posts 141 and 143:
Why so coy Haitham?
I think my point was rather clearly stated. I referenced the fact that you have given this thread the name "freedom of racism"…yet Islam is not a race.
The contradiction there is self-evident.
Again I will ask- are you simply trying to add fuel to the fire ("racism" is a rather caustic choice of words) with this baseless charge?
Is this the responsible thing to do?
Not trying to add fuel to anything, Ali. I think if you follow my blog well, and read more posts of mine about this subject (here, here and here); you will understand my views and opinion.
On the other hand, as you can see here, at some point, I just stopped commenting and left the door open for all to correspond (something we usually don’t have the right to practice – freedom of expression). It’s now clear that this has built some bases for understanding to some from both sides beside the normal expected rants and trolls. So, no harm done.
dear raeda,
promising virgins in paradise after being blown to pieces in earth sounds con enough to me.
LET’S DO WHAT WE ARE ON EARTH TO DO AND DON”T WASTE TIME READING OR WRITING WHAT IS USELESS.
stop the protests.thats what is useless
Thank you for your measured response, Haitham.
I agree that the freedom of expression is indeed an important one. And you've certainly proven that with your displays of the cartoons in question here.
Though you again haven't addressed my point about Islam not being a "race" per se.
I'm afraid your cries of "racism" still seem well put of bounds here.
It seems that there is a difference between "leaving a door open" and instigating agitation.
But then, that is just my opinion I suppose.
Comment to 138:
I agree that most westerners dont know much about islam but are you actually implying that you have to be a muslim or an Islam expert just to give an oppinion on the matter. I realise denmark is a small country but I´ve seen an amazing amount of ignorence from many people on this blog who dont have faintets idea what kind of a country Denmark is and who probably dont care. But just to help those people out I would like to give a few basic facts that might stop people from making to many erroneous assumptions.
Denmark is probably the most secular country in the world therefore we tend redicuel all religion.
Burning the Koran in public would be illegal in Danmark.
Slanter and blasfemy is illegal (but its up to the courts, so if you have a complaint you will have to wait).
Many danes including myself thought the drawings were an unneccary and childish abuse of the freedom of expression
Most danish muslims are tired of the conflict and think the reaction has been groosly exagurated.
I hear that Iran is sanctioning caricatures of western Gods to see how the west responds. Be assured that will will not respond by threatening your buildings or defile your environment. We will not take to the streets and chant immorally against you. Also, we will not pray for your death or burn your flags. In the west we respect your right to opine. You act like savages when you take to the streets and wish death upon others. Surely your religion is better than that. Some of you will suggest that it is only the extremist and radicals that do so. There seem to be a lot of them. They need to be reigned in for your religion in the Muslim world appears to have a lot of haters in it and it is being misrepresented therefore to the world. I respect your religion personally but it needs to represent something good and decent.
Robert you seem to misjudge the acts of the west when something like that would actually happen. you say that YOU HEARD iran would want to sanction the western gods, but please make sure before hearing anything since propaganda and rumors play a huge role in daily life now a days. please make sure you do not speak in the name of "we" (quoting you again " we will not respond by threatening your buildings or defile your environment. We will not take to the streets and chant immorally against you") since you can not predict what or how western countries would reply. anyhow, they do not have to lead riots or demonstrations to advocate themselves, they can set sanctions whether economically or militarily. taking action on something does not always have to be with demonstrations or burning down buildings. they might as well be worse ( if you know what i mean) or less of value.
please reconsider # 172
Leen you make some good points regarding retaliation from the west. It can take the form of other sanctions that might be more clandestine but nefarious in nature. Also understand that there is a lot of propaganda against the west in many Muslim countries. The west is depicted very negatively. It is essentially a clash of cultures. Our view diverges from yours perhaps in how we see the world and religion most importantly. I just want there to be more tolerance and dignity in how we treat each others. There is too much separation and division in the name of religion and other factors. Personally I am very disappointed in the rulers of the world to include our president. From my point of view there seems to be very little tolerance from Muslim countries. Now we have Hamas in power in Palestine. Yes, according to what I read here in the west they are a terrorist group. They refuse to acknowledge Israel along with Iran. Both countries want to destroy it. Their speech is full of hatred. How do the Muslim countries justify that sort of conduct? When I turn on the television all I see or am allowed to see is hatred being heaped in bushels toward our president or western countries by Muslims. It is enough already. Can't we all just get along? What is it going to take-World War III? I hope not.
also ihr penner, ich versteh net so janz wolum es hier jet aber ick weis das ihr alle gut furzen koennt ey? mein name ist joachim der 799. wenn ihr was braucht NIX VERGESSEN nur melden bei mick. alle klo? bis donn ihr kugelwarzen. adios batatos
na ihr rassistischen wix-strümpfe alles kartoffelsäcke? ihr denkt wohl ihr seid totale klugscheißer hää? seid ihr aba net denn ich bin eina und weiß was islam ist und net ihr ..ihr niiiiiiiiiippleeeeeeeeeeeeee ihr klenen scharmhaare !!! also leuddä föckt eüch wenn ihär wissän wöllt …weiß net wos..also islam is ya voll korreckt ey das isn teil meines lebäns genauso wie beim türkään der döner nää..ok dann ihr diggen ich bin voll derbe hacke also breit ihr scheßa bepisst euch ihr eichelmuschis…mfg der oba maka türke
After reading some of the response, i'd realise that:
1) It is intolerance that is cusing the current stir. Be it intolerance towards Muslim beliefs or intolerance towards western cultures.
2) Doesn't mean that just becos when pple poke fun at christian or jewish beliefs, that makes it allowable to poke fun at islam.
3) Muslim doesn't understand the west as much as the west doesn't understand muslims.
4) Insults to ones religion vs violence to ones properties.
Question:
1) Why is it neccessary to provoke another person's belief under the rationale of freedom of speech? Does freedom of speech justify provokation/insults?
2) When provoked, protesting shows the magnitude of expression, but is the burning of embassies, flags and calls for execution and other violence neccessary?
I think respect needs both understanding and tolerance be it to provoke or be provoked. It is apparent that the clash of cultures cannot be resolved overnight, but as we move on from this episode, we need to try to understand both sides of the issue and understand where it went out of hand, and how we can contribute positively to it rather than simply taking a biased stand.
This is our first strike against the infidels.
First, we will shame them into banning so-called freedom of speech on the grounds that it offends Allah. Their old standard for their so-called freedom of speech was that it was limited by "shouting fire in a theater", or perhaps directly inciting people to violence. The new standard is that speech must not offend Allah's followers, irrespective of their location. The result of this will be the much sought after death of so-called free speech in the West.
Then, we will shame them into banning all religious holidays, because they offend islamic migrants. The same will happen with secular holidays.
By this stage, they will be so utterly convinced that they are a group of mindless xenophobes who can never be right, that they will immediately give-in to all of our demands.
If they don't submit, we shall threaten to bomb their cities. By this stage, their immigration policies will have created such a large number of jihadists in their midst that we can easily carry out our threat. They will be too afraid to assemble against us, for fear of being labelled 'racist'. Divided, they will fall.
If any of them rise against us, we shall immediately accuse them of racism. As most of them have been brainwashed by the education systems of the 1970s, 80s and 90s, they will believe us, and start asking why they are so hateful.
Over time, our migrant enclaves can begin implementing Sharia law. Their police forces will not interfere, for fear of creating social unrest.
The decline of the West has come, my brothers. Soon, no infidel will dare insult the prophet anywhere on the globe. Our reach will be universal. A golden age will arise, in which all infidels will adopt the one true faith, or die.
I think it's very degrading to Islam to even think of such a thing. One thing that Islam calls for is to respect the 2 other religions Judaism and Christianity. I dont mind the boycotting, what other way would the muslims get their revenge, after all it is a very sensitive topic. To degrade any prophet is a sin. But whats happening in Lebanon and Syria and other countries is monsterous. Unfortunately the media provide a false image about Islam. Indeed these people causing riots call themselves muslims. The words muslim and islam are derived from the word "salam" meaning peace. So I can say confidently that the people causing the riots are not true muslims and Allah will punish them.This is not a response t
When Iran mentioned that they are going to post picturs degrading the holocaust,I was devastated.I think it's very degrading to Islam to even think of such a thing. One thing that Islam calls for is to respect the 2 other religions Judaism and Christianity. I dont mind the boycotting, what other way would the muslims get their revenge, after all it is a very sensitive topic. To degrade any prophet is a sin. But whats happening in Lebanon and Syria and other countries is monsterous. Unfortunately the media provide a false image about Islam. Indeed these people causing riots call themselves muslims. The words muslim and islam are derived from the word "salam" meaning peace. So I can say confidently that the people causing the riots are not true muslims and Allah will punish them.Racism is a sin.This is not a response to anyone but just a general point of view.
Thank you
Mustafa
somethings wrong with the posting process
Osama bin Laden,
Why don't you implement Sharia on yourself, you family and Muslim's country first before thinking of non-Muslim countries? Keeping in mind that you are talking about God's Sharia, not your Sharia, prophet Bin Laden!
BTW, have you seen your niece butt? Or did you see the feminist images of prophet Mohammed all over The ISLAMIC Republic of Iran?
Get a life man. Really sick minded, brainwashed people like you are driving us to hell.
this is for Osama Bin laden . please osama i do understand your will to seek revenge from the western countries or all non-muslims,but i would appreciate it if you could express your anger in a more justified way. that would make it easier to maintain your self-respect and the respect for others. i`ve been giving my comments on this website almost everyday and i have been defending everything that seems to be misjudged, misunderstood or mistreated.
The first response that you will hear from the newspapaers is that thsi is freedom of speech. In Austria, and probebly in most of Europe, one can't deny holocaust. Newspapaers, which published the cartoons second time knew perfactly well what they were doing. Since they chose to publish them any way. Now, they should face the consequences as well. If their countries embassies are burned or their companies are boycoted, well, keep in mind next time. Europeans still think like 50 years ago, when they were the dominanat power in the world, they still think that they can get away with lots of stuff. The reality is Europe is dying old continent which is losing its prominence with every passing day, they can't do any thing else, except, may be coem up with childish stunts like these ones.
OBL,
you have mapped such a brilliant plan to enforce what you call as islamic law on the rest of the world,but it sounded more like your law.i think you need to get your head checked coz no one in their right minds would think up of such idiotic plans.when you bomb innocents the last thing that will come to mind is being worried about racism.it is not because of the majority of moslems,some of whome are my best buddies that islam is seen in such a bad light…it is because of people like you who dream up ludicrous plans and try to enforce it on the rest of us.get a life man,the world can do with more productive individuals.remember its very hard to create good,but only takes a few seconds to destroy it.peace.
What sort of plans are u talking about? Plz let me know.
my comment was for osama bin laden.please check his blog first
The problem with Europeans is that how quickly their population is dying, and how quickly they are losing influence in the world. Look at tiny belgium,a country with few million people colonized countries and area hundred time more than its size. 60 years agao, most countries in the world were like Europeans slaves, they could decide if Egypt could control its own Suez canal, they decided if Algerians had the right to independent country or not. They could move people from thousands of miles away, and put them in a place and tell them this is your country. What can Europeans do now, they can't even tell Iran what to do. I think we should have behaved more maturly than we have done. Europeans absloutely don't understand islamic psychology at all. For example, for one minute, did they ever think that why muslims or muslim countries didn't say anything ever about JESUS? My question to all is why Muslims never say anything ever bad about Jesus, considering the fact that these cartoons have created such anger, that it would have been obvious that muslims should have published cartoons of Jesus in respomse. Why they didn't do that. I think if europeans and Christian could only understand that, they would know why this has created such anger.
saw the cartoons on wb and am more puzzled to see on what or why are we reacting. if they are published with the caption of Jessus or Mussa, then there would not have been that strong reaction from muslims. I believe in that to let die a matter is to give a ignore to the extent that it vanishs within itself. See behind the lines, who is manipulating all these events. In Arabai, all most all muslims governments are divided on basic issues and jews are there to benefit. They are human beings and have to survive as this is their born right. You can't vipe them out like Hitler tried.
Develop your own empire of resources and get rid of the ecnomic empire of the jewish lobby.use your brain and instead of fighting like old warriors, fight scientifically with the mind game. You can beat them when they play your game. Now with this reaction, muslims are playing their games and avoid all such incidnets of incitment or reactions to concur the minds, hearts.
haris
Perhaps because I'm not a self described 'religious' person, I see all of this hoopla as baffling. But I wonder how I might have reacted had I followed the Catholic upbringing of my childhood? Or if I'd been born in another century when Catholic meant something different, when it was a matter of survival?
How would I feel as a Muslim woman in a country where we all felt battered by an all-powerful nation?
Has anyone read "Reading Lolita in Tehran"?
Where Iranians were being bombed by Iraq with U.S. support?
Where the freedom of women to speak with another person who wasn't a brother or other male relation was nil, where you couldn't walk along the street with your hair uncovered because the street police might take you away? Where you couldn't study something as innoccuous as literature by Nabokov because it was considered subversive and if you were caught doing it you would end up in jail?
I just don't really get it. Of course it's not right to make fun of another's beliefs. Of course it's not right to be a minority or an immigrant in a country that denies you the right to work or to otherwise have a decent life. Of course it's not right for my imperialist country to wage war and kill innocent people (theirs as well as ours….not to mention all the maimed people who will never be the same…who will never live a normal life again.)
We all know this is not right. We all hate it. I suppose the question is now: What can we do about it?
Express our opinions? Is that enough?
Regarding all the hate and blah-blah-blah about each other's religions, political views and personal opinions, I say: Give it a break. We're all here on this planet for one reason. To live, love, and have children and for them to play together.
Get over your personal crap already. Hah.
Try this one on for size: get over it! Is there any logic in the actions of the protestors of the cartoons? No. Does buring the Danish flag truly accomplish anything? No. Is it fair to blame all of Denmark, let alone America and the West? No. Fine, express your opinion of distaste, however, why must it be violent? It is so pathetic and unoriginal. If you are so offended that you must turn to violence (i.e. turn into a copy cat of your peer who has far too much testosterone and self riteousness) then you are not a person of free thought, academic prowess, nor do you posess common sense. It sad really, and I pity you if this is who you are. You might as well live in a George Orwell novel. I wish you the best of luck in becoming your own person and hope that you some day you do.
wylie #205
with all my respect my dear, but i think the one overreacting and also contradicting herself is you. people like you are the ones causing the aggression all over the world. if u can not live with the fact that muslims are overreacting then at least do the opposite and do not overreact that would help and support the situation a little more. first u mention that u and ur country respect freedom of religion then yet again u say that u (quoting u again) "I and most westerners have absolutely NO RESPECT for your prophet". i mean what kind of contradiction is this? at least try NOT TO include everyone on this website when u try judging or offending. be a little more specific about each and everyone of us! i would really appreciate it if you could discuss in a calm and mature way because this is JUST NON-SENSE and too unjustified.
WYLIE
No one asks you to believe in our prophet or to convert into Islam . All we expect from any civilized person on this planet is to show some respect towards his fellow men who are different.When You don't respect my beliefs you don't respect me and if you dont respect me I won't respect you either.
leen #208
I fail to see how I contradicted my self. I stated that this country has freedom of speech, and I might add religion. I then stated that I have total respect for people to worship as they please and that in this country I would defend that right. Perhaps if I had used a word other than respect my point would have been better made. Let me try, 'I, and most people in the west, attach no religous significance to the prophet. We will certainally not give him any better treatment than we give our own dieties'. If you disagree with that statement, please let me know the reason.
In this country it is not uncommon to see satire aimed to religion. While I find some distasteful(I am not an athiest) I still stand in its defense. So aboutariq #209 is asking that I give his 'holy one' treatment that I do not even give my own. That to me is a true contradiction. His(aboutariq)final statement may well encapsulate the entire conflict and I would suspect is a result of being raised in entirely different cultures. I could care less if he respects me or my GOD. And I am amazed he is concerned whether or not I respect him and his GOD. I can guanantee I will never threaten him with violence, not matter what he says. And I trust he can make the same commitment.
If I have offended with any of my comments I can say it was not intended. I am thrilled to find a place to interact, and perhaps debate, respectfully, with those different than me. I hope to learn something.
Wylie
you have been clear enough so far.Only one thing escapes you. i.e when you say you don't respect my beliefs that may mean : 1)that you don't care what they consist of ( and that's your legitimate right which I totally respect)but would never be hostile to me as someone different. or 2)that you feel free to publically express hostile opinion about my beliefs ( which will offend me an make me react not boasting but defending myself against it.For me and for Moslems in general Religion is part of life.It is part of our identity.Islam is a religion of tolerance and mercy.We are not all extremists !
I support these cartoons and am tired of Muslims attempting to control my own freedoms of religion or speech. I am especially concerned about how Muslims (mainly those that follow strict Islamic laws) treat woman. Personally, this last points makes me feel that a great majority of Muslims are bigots and ignorant to the rights of others. When most Muslim women are given the “choice” to do X or Z, then I will be more open to listing to Muslims concerns about cartoons.
Aboutariq,
I do not think that all muslums are extremist. I think very few are. However, I am coming to believe there is a fundmental difference between the east and west, which I pray can be overcome. I fully understand your last statement but I just see things differently than you. I, like you, am not concerned with others beliefs, but I will loudly support their right to worship.
The difference between us is highlighted by your second statement. I would not take personal offense if you made hostile statements about my beliefs. I hear them all them time. Now, if you were attempting to limit my right to worship as I please(which you are not) then I would be forced to take actions. And have no doubts, religion is a major part of my life, and the life of many Americans. I am sad to say that is not so much the case in Europe, although I expect many Europeans would tell me to save my concern for someone else. It appears to me there are just 2 different levels of tolerance. I will only feel the need to take action if someone attempts to limit my rights. Many Muslums feel the need to take actions when someone makes a derogatory statement(or drawing) about their beliefs. The solution to this problem we hear from the east is to stop doing things that we take for granted in the west. So we are being asked to change our culture, or voluntarily surrender our rights, to not anger Muslums. Again, I hope our two cultures can come to a mutually satisfactory solution, but I fear that if one side or the other does not radically changs, we are in for a whole lot of strife.
Wylie,
I think difference and diversity are ingredients that give life a taste and the existence of different cultures is a good thing.All we need is to get to know each other more through communication and exchange.Everywhere in the world there is good and evil.And we need to put hand in hand to fight evil and praise good with disregard of religion or origin or colour. We are human beings an we may do wrong.
Majority of people on the blog seems to say that yes, there must be freedom of speech but… No one seems to understand that once you put a "but" in a statement, you have actually negated your statement about free speech. First of all, I do not understand how the Prophet got insulted by the cartoons? Does anyone know what he looked like? To me, all these cartoons are representing is the narrow-mindedness of Muslim extremists: suicide bombers, sectarian killers, destroyers, and roiters. Ain't we Muslims committing these crimes every day? Didn't we kill almost 3,000 innocent individuals (and that included Muslims too) in those plane crashes into Twin Towers in New York, and ain't we responsible for killings all over Europe, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Palestine, Israel and Kashmir, just to name a few countries? This is what Islam is all about? And you preach that Islam is a peaceful religion.
Shame on us all, individually and collectively. We are trying to destroy the same societies that welcomed us, and took us into their houses, raised us and educated us. All these are asking that we should enjoy the freedom with voilence. Is it too much to ask? Is that the way we Muslims repay their hosts. Think about it.
Most of the people here demand that equal respect must first be made between the West and the Muslims with respect to Freedom of Speech. They say that the Muslims are hot-headed and intolerant of other cultures aside from their own. However, the question is, do majority of the Muslims really want to blow people up just for a bunch of cartoons? Surely they object to it, just as a devout Christian would be if Jesus/Christianity was insulted. But are they really so extremist in their religous beliefs?
A lot of muslims have expressed such hate and violence as evidence of their uproar in Europe, the Middle East and Asia. But these are only a small percentage of the whole Muslim population. Don't help fan the flames of hate ignited by these radicals.
My point here is simple. Let's not let the views of a small group of cartoonists be generalized as the views of an entire country or the West; at the same time, let's not let a bunch of islamic extremists be generalized as the veiws of an entire religon. This entire issue was blown up only because people tend to generalize the views of a few radicals as the voice of the majority when it is not.
This goes to Muhammad khan 218…i wanna ask u smth…r u a moslem?? in case you are which i seriously doubt i will tell you what Islam truely is…first you say that u dont understand how the prophet (pbuh) got insulted by the cartoons and if anyone even knows how he looked like…well it is simply forbidden to even think about how he might has been lookin like…and if we (the moslems) are not allowed to picture him then other religion dont have the right to picture him AT ALL…we moslems never pictured jesus becaus we dont do such things as picturing holy people like our prophet mohammad (pbuh)or jesus..but the christians did.they draw jesus and in every church there is a total different face or body of jesus..we dont do that and we never did so please make sure of ur informations before you talk because your talkin nonsense…muslims are also not narrow-minded..the one who is narrow-minded is YOU and the rest of the people who do not understand what islam is…few of these extremists,suicide bombers etc you have mentiond might be moslems but dont you think that most of them are jews or even christians who are willing to do that just to show islam as a bad and violent religion? propaganda is what is saying that they are moslems but they are not this is only a way to show us as terrorists which is really sad how cheap the other religions became…we moslems respect other religions because we respect our own religion even more..we dont have any reason to attack anyone from another religion…and now another thing…u mentioned the plane crash in the twin towers in new york and that the terrorists were moslems…now if you read the past news from this date they say that in the plane there was not a single jew and if you ask me i think this is pretty weird so now dont you say that these were moslems because its obviously that the jews did clash the plane(s) in the twin towers so again dont discriminate the moslems…if you are a moslem,i feel ashamed that you belong to our religion because you definitly are not a moslem with this mentality…islam is not the religion you think,u simply dont have an idea of it so you'd better go and read the holy quran before you start talkin..and plus dont believe everythin you see in the tv or hear from other people…go by yourself and find out what is truely happening because again you ARE TALKIN TOTAL NONSENSE !!!
Hmm actually here's what I think:
Well the danish guy said what he wanted. He did. Can we stop him ? No. He can say whatever he wants. HOWEVER, that's great!
Now we have someone who needs to be enlightened. According to the drawings, he think our prophet is…undesirable. However that is untrue as a fact.
But we too have a right to say something. And we say you are wrong! In my opinion, it would be wise to remove the death threats and calm our soles to then find the source of this misunderstanding.
If they claim this to be freedom of speech than so can we. I say we simply speak our minds and indicate his faults. He insulted us but it might be because he has no idea or is ignorant about our prophet. If he did know however and simply is insulting him, THEN we can be angry. Of course, we cant legally physically harm him religious wise and legal wise, so I guess God will just see to it in the end.
We know the truths…
Let's be realistic, Gin,After all,How can you deny the fact that Alqaida was responsible for the twin center attack while Usama Bin Laden himself claimed responsibility for it? Or do you think Even Alqaïda is fictitious or created by propaganda against Islam?
Those who drew the cartoons meant to represnt what they think is Prophet Sidna Muhammed.But for me it's not him, so he is safe.This doesn't deny the fact that they meant to distort his moral image and through it the image of islam and Muslims and they are to blame for that.
to SB 215
We,Muslims don't try to control your freedom of speech or religion. We only try, like you, to defend ourselves and our religion and freedom of expression allows us, too,to do so.
Women are undirectly badly treated in the west too.They are most of the time considered as merely sex objects!
GOD not forgive you…Muslims believe on all Prophets. Dont make habit negative thinking. Please read this Ayat translation.
MARYAM (19)
"Mary"
(Revealed at Mecca, Verses 98)
In the name of Allah, The Merciful, The All-merciful
Kaf Ha Ya Ain Sad (K.H.Y.A.S.);(1)
the mention of thy Lord's mercy to His servant Zachariah;(2)
when he called upon his Lord in low tones.(3)
He said, `my Lord, my bones are enfeebled, and my head is aflame with age, yet in calling on Thee, my Lord, I have never been unlucky.(4)
And I fear my kinsmen after I am gone, and my wife is barren, so grant me from Thee a heir,(5)
who shall inherit me and inherit the House of Jacob; and, my Lord, make him pleasing.'(6)
`O Zachariah, We give thee good news of a boy whose name shall be John. We have not made any worthy of his name before.'(7)
He said, `my Lord, how shall I have a son when my wife is barren, and I have reached extreme of old age.'(8)
He said, `so it will be; thy Lord says, `it is easy for Me, for I created thee before, when thou wast nothing'.(9)
He said, `my Lord, appoint for me a Sign?' He said, `thy sign is that thou, though normal, shalt not speak to men for three nights.'(10)
So he came out to his people from the chamber, and made signal to them, `extol God at dawn and at night'.(11)
`O John, take the Book with strength'. And We gave him Judgement, while yet a child,(12)
and a tenderness and purity from us; and he was godfearing(13)
and kind to his parents, and he was not arrogant or defiant.(14)
And `peace be upon him, the day he was born, the day he dies, and the day he shall be raised to life.'(15)
And mention in the Book Mary, when she withdrew from her people to an eastern place,(16)
and she took a veil apart from them; then We sent to her Our Spirit and he appeared to her a normal man.(17)
She said, "I take refuge in the All-merciful from thee, if thou indeed art godfearing.' (18)
He said, `I am but a messenger of thy Lord that I may bestow on thee a pure boy'.(19)
She said, `how shall I have a boy when no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste'.(20)
He said, `so it shall be; thy Lord says, `it is easy for Me and that We may make him a Sign for men and a mercy from Us, and it is a matter decreed.'(21)
So she conceived him and withdrew with him to a distant place.(22)
Then the birthpangs drove her to the trunk of the palm tree. She said, `would that I had died before this, and become a thing forgotten'.(23)
And one called her from below her, `do not grieve; thy Lord has set a rivulet below thee.(24)
And shake to thee the trunk of the palm tree, and it will drop on thee fresh ripe dates.(25)
So eat and drink and cool the eyes. And if thou seest any mortal, say, `I have vowed a fast to the All-merciful, so today, I shall not speak to any man.'(26)
Then, carrying him, she brought him to her people. They said, `Mary, thou hast surely committed a monstrous thing.(27)
O sister of Aaron, thy father was not a wicked man, and thy mother was not unchaste.'(28)
So she pointed to him. They said, `how shall we speak to one who is an infant in the cradle?'(29)
He spoke, `I am God's servant; He has given me the Book and made me a Prophet,(30)
and He has made me blessed wherever I may be, and He has enjoined on me the Prayer and the Alms-giving as long as I live,(31)
and to be kind to my mother; and He has not made me arrogant and unlucky.(32)
And peace be upon me, the day I was born, the day I die and the day I shall be raised alive.'(33)
That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth in which they doubt.(34)
It is not for God that He should take to Him a son __ He is Holy. When He decrees a thing, He only says to it, `be', and it is.(35)
And (he said) `God is my Lord and your Lord, so serve Him __ this is a straight path.'(36)
But the sects have differed among them; so woe to those who disbelieve for the witnessing of a Mighty Day.(37)
How well they will hear and see on the day they come to Us! But, today the wrong-doers are clearly astray.(38)
And warn them of the Day of Regret, when the matter shall be decided; but they are heedless and they do not believe.(39)
We ourselves shall inherit the earth and all those that are upon it, and to Us they shall be returned.(40)
And mention in the Book Abraham; he was surely a truthful man, a Prophet.(41)
When he said to his father, `father, why dost thou serve that which neither hears nor sees, nor avails thee anything.(42)
Father, there has come to me such knowledge as has not come to thee, so follow me and I shall guide thee to an even path.(43)
Father, do not serve the Devil; the Devil is surely a rebel to the All-merciful.(44)
Father, I fear that a punishment from the All-merciful shall afflict thee so that thou shalt become a comrade of the Devil.'(45)
He said, `art thou averse to my gods, Abraham? If thou dost not give over, I will stone thee; so leave me for some time.'(46)
He said, `peace be upon thee! I shall pray my Lord for thy forgiveness; He is surely gracious to me.(47)
And I go apart from you and what you call upon, apart from God, and I will call upon my Lord; perhaps I shall not be unlucky in calling upon my Lord.'(48)
So when he went apart from them and what they were serving, apart from God, We bestowed upon him Isaac and Jacob; and each We made a Prophet.(49)
And We bestowed upon them Our mercy, and We made for them a renowned tongue of truth.(50)
And mention in the Book Moses; he was specially chosen, and he was a Messenger, a Prophet.(51)
And We called to him from the right side of the Mount, and We drew him near in communion.(52)
And, out of Our mercy, We bestowed on him his brother Aaron, a Prophet.(53)
And mention in the Book Ishmael; he was true to his promises, and he was a Messenger, a Prophet.(54)
And he used to bid his people the Prayer and the Alms-giving, and he was pleasing to his Lord.(55)
And mention in the book Idris; he was a true man, a Prophet;(56)
and We raised him up to a high place.(57)
Those are the ones whom God blessed, among the Prophets of the off-spring of Adam, and of those We bore with Noah, and of the offspring of Abraham and Israel, and of those We guided and chose. When the signs of the All-merciful were recited to them they fell down prostrate, weeping.(58)
Then there succeeded after them successions that wasted the Prayer and followed lusts; they shall soon meet perversion,(59)
except those who repent and believe and do righteous deeds; they shall enter Paradise and shall not be wronged in the least;(60)
Gardens of Eternity that the All-merciful has promised His servants in the unseen; His promise is surely fulfilled.(61)
They will not hear any non-sense there, but only greetings of peace; and they shall have their provision there at dawn and evening.(62)
That is Paradise which We shall give in inheritance to such of Our servants who are godfearing.(63)
And we do not come down but at the command of thy Lord; to Him belongs what is before us, what is behind us and what is between that; and thy Lord is never forgetful;(64)
Lord of the heavens and the earth and what is between them, so serve Him, and be steadfast in His service; dost thou know anyone worthy of His Name?(65)
And Man says, `when I am dead, shall I be brought forth alive?'(66)
But does man not remember that We created him before, when he was nothing?(67)
So, by thy Lord, We will surely muster them and the devils, then We shall bring them about the Hell on their knees;(68)
then We shall draw forth from every party such of them as were most hardened in disdain of the All-merciful.(69)
Then, We surely know very well those most deserving to burn in it.(70)
And there is none among you, but he shall arrive at it; that is definite and decreed with thy Lord.(71)
Then, We shall deliver those who fear God, and leave the wrongdoers there on their knees.(72)
And when Our clear signs are recited to them, the unbelievers say to the Believers, `which of the two parties is better in position and fairer in company?'(73)
But how many a generation have We destroyed before them, who were better in gear and outward show?(74)
Say, `whoso is astray, let the All-merciful prolong his term long; till when they see what they are threatened with, whether the punishment or the Hour, they will know who is worse in position and weaker in hosts.'(75)
And those who are guided, God increases them in guidance; and the abiding things, the deeds of righteousness, are better in reward with thy Lord and better in return.(76)
And hast thou seen him who disbelieves in Our signs and says, `I shall surely be given wealth and children?'(77)
Has he observed the unseen or taken a covenant with the All-merciful?(78)
No indeed! We shall write down what he says, and We shall prolong for him the punishment,(79)
and We shall inherit from him what he says, and he shall come to Us alone.(80)
And they have taken to them gods, apart from God, that they might be for them a might(81)
No indeed! they will deny their service, and shall be pitted against them.(82)
Hast thou not seen how We have sent the devils over the unbelievers to incite them?(83)
So be not in haste against them; We are only numbering them.(84)
On the day that We muster the godfearing to the All-merciful as guests, (85)
and drive the sinners to Hell in a herd;(86)
they will not have any power of intercession, except him who has made a covenant with the All-merciful.(87)
And they say, `the All-merciful has taken to Himself a son.'(88)
You have indeed advanced a hideous thing!(89)
The heavens may be rent of it, and the earth split asunder, and the mountains fall down crashing,(90)
for that they have attributed to the All-merciful a son.(91)
It behoves not the All-merciful that He should take a son.(92)
None is there in the heavens and the earth but he comes to the All-merciful as a servant.(93)
He has counted them and He has numbered them exactly;(94)
and, on the Day of Resurrection, everyone of them shall come to Him all alone.(95)
Those who believe and do righteous deeds, the All-merciful shall assign to them love.(96)
So We have made it easy by thy tongue, that, thereby thou mayest give good news to the godfearing, and warn a stubborn people.(97)
And how many a generation We have destroyed before them! Dost thou perceive anyone of them, or hear of them a wispier?(98)
# 223 RG–> i totally agree with you. whoever mentioned the fact that women are being mistreated in the arab world or islamic world is in my point of view totally unreasonable and uneducated or better say : VAGUE!!! it happens in countries all over the world. not only are women being mistreated, but also children and men too. if you could read a little more or watch many documentaries you'd know what i am talking about or what RG is talking about.
as for #222 TAMIM, i have to correct you and say that GIN did NOT DENY THE FACT that muslims were involved in the twin tower attack, she just involved the subject of the jews as well. she did not put them out of the question saying they did not have a hand in it, cuz it was mentined above a dozen times that jews did have a role in that attack. however, who exactly planned it all still remains a puzzle and i`m not quite sure if its right that osama bin laden admitted to have committed that. i remember them mentioning on tv that when he was questioned whether has a something to do with it or not all he answered was : (smile) i wish i was the one who has done that!!!
#226–> leen
I think what shakes the world most is political conflicts and economic interests and crazy leaders like BUSH ,GADDAFI, BIN LADEN, SHARON and quite a few others.I'm not of those who believe in complots against Islam or against Jews or Arabs.It's nonsense saying that september 11th was planned and carried out by anybody else than Alqaïda.It's true they gave the US a reason to declare war on what they call "terrorism".
HuH??o0 look we all know that islam ins not about blowing up ….so why dont you explain it to people in such places as palestin ….(or what ever you call that land)
i myself as a jew know quite well what racism means but lats face it the islam is a plague of europe and its basicly cheap coppy of our holly book
nothing but stories… although un like christians you have 1 god so you are way batter in my oppinion anyway stop blowing up and we will stop killing you …
by the way the stupid crazy ass iran will start the thirld world war
so choose your sides gentelmen
That land (Occupied Palestine) has been taken from its people and has been occupied by force by the sionists who massacred kids,women and old men.Those who blow themselves up have chosen this method to fight against occupation and to resist against humiliation and killing.Islam is a religion like Judaism, not a plague.Occupation is a plague in the middle east.Killing calls up killing and hatred calls up hatred, but fear is worse and we know that Jews are fearful by nature.They may start world war III just out of fear.
For all the putting down of America, many of you naysayers are the ones moving to this God Blessed country. There is a reason that the United States is the leader of the free world–God has blessed us. We are a charitable country and always have been. When we experienced hurricane Katrina many countries donated meager sums to help with the effort. When other countries have disaters we are the first to send planes full of aid etc. Wake up already. This is the greatest country in the history of the world. We are not trying to take your land or your oil. America has the resources to pay for it and we do. We are your best market to dispose of your oil. If we wanted to be unrighteous and take your oil we could do it with little trouble. We don't. Our country was founded on religious doctrines that espouse righteousness and respect for civil liberties. Most other countries punish their people and provide little. There is rampant corruption. We are truly free.
TAMIM #230–> i`ve got no comment on what you`ve said earlier because I AGREE WITH YOU 100% honestly. as for you #231 Robert R. it's sad how you always try to defend your country with vague arguments. see some people admit their mistakes and others don't. its good how you try to show everyone how great your country is and i dont neglect that BUT IT IS TRULY SAD HOW YOU TOTALLY cover the mistakes and disadvantages done BY YOUR COUNTRY. come on if you failed to mention these then i accept it but if you FAIL TO SEE THAT YOUR COUNTRY HAS ANY DISADVANTAGES OR MISTAKES just LIKE ANY OTHER COUNTRY then i`d say: with all my respect to you but don't try interfering in a discussion with that narrow-mind. please!!!!
Robert,
Your post (231) provides a very interesting perspective on things.
It is one which seems rare on this blog. Though rare doesn't mean incorrect.
Your points regarding the US assistance to other nations in need is a valid one as is your point about human rights there.
Like you, I have little doubt that if the United States was as "evil" as we sometimes hear, all of the resources in the Middle East would now be located in North America. It would truly be like taking candy from a baby.
Thanks for contributing a needed voice to this discussion.
In response to leen. Please leen, don't try to negate my comments by trying to suggest that I am blind to my countries mistakes. I thought it was a given that we are not perfect and that I did not need to explain it to you. Perhaps I need to go into more detail. Excuse me for giving you too much credit. Your insight is lacking. Yes, America has made mistakes like every other country. Are you happy now. I thought it was an obvious point. Our country has disadvantages I suppose. But the advantages are so great that I don't focus on that. The opportunities of my country are so vast that people literally die trying to get here. Have you ever experienced a free culture Leen? If you did then you might not be so negative. I present a positve view point of my country because I have lived in many other countries as well. I am always happy to return home. No country is perfect but we are as close to paradise as you will ever get in this world. Perhaps my view is biased because I love my country. You will have to forgive me for that Leen.
no problem robert, i understand your point of view, however i must say that i have been living and traveling around countries a lot. as a judge you have got to experience all sorts of cultures. i have lived in a free culture as well as in a suppressed one and i truly know what you are talking about so i dont think that my insight is lacking. and forgive me if i thought that your arguments are vague but i thought it would be more appreciated if you list advantages as well as disadvantages. however, there is no such country that is perfect and the united states does provide you with a whole lot of opportunities, but that is a matter of fact that does not only occur there. it is quite obvious how each and everyone of us views his culture, country or religion in a different way and that is leading to the conflicts that can NOT be often resoluted.
Robert im 100%agree whith you.America is indeed the gratest country in the history but i love israel it is my home and well if you would like it occupied teritorry then call it like that evry territory is occupied by people so this one is occupied by israelis but you must remember that we still supply the arab population the FREE food water electricity and hostpital service and i myself as a volonteer in ambulance know that we must get the corpses (yes corpses of the war they lead against each other the hamas and fatah)
by the way people get killed there is inhuman and since you recall that israeli soldiers kill wiht no reason you are very wrong i must recall the begining of the INtifada or whatever you call it 2 soldiers went lost and entered an arab city …they were linched …yeah i remember the bloody hands of the leanchers and agains such saviges im going to fight to protect my home and my freedom
my thought is that you dont really know what happens here and you are angry becouse your TV says that you should be…Islam is the perfect religion to create slaves :) and i gues you all are :)
I think that it is important to keep our comments respectful regarding any issue addressed here. Too often people write about Arabs, terrorists, infidels etc. We are a divided world and we need to acknowledge that we are all interested in similar things. Most people need shelter, autonomy, civil liberties, freedom, the right to worship and love. There is too much divisiveness and too much hatred is often expressed toward other people's religion or land. We are all part of the same race–the Human race. The problem is mental programming. We have all been programmed. What we all believe depends on our culture and what we were taught. There are very few original thinkers out there. Some of us are just saying things we have read or been told is true. Please examine your beliefs, where they originated etc. before blasting other cultures and people with venom. I propose that everyone that participates in this discussion, no matter the topic, does so with consideration for others beliefs and culture. God Bless the human race.
Robert, i truly respect the way you are speaking and expressing your point of view. and yes it is true we are all part of one race–> the HUMAN RACE and it is sad how you "DEH KEX #236 fail to adress us all AS ONE RACE. plus i dont really think that slavery is the issue you mentioned earlier. that is surely not true. please make sure you know who is killing whom because MOSLEMS ARE NOT INNOCENT AS WELL AS JEWS OR CHRISTIANS.
I want to address a caricature of Mohammad printed in the Danish and French newspapers. Some might be offended by my comments but please be patient. One particular caricature depicts Mohammad in heaven telling arriving suicide bombers to stop already because they are running out of virgins. From my western perspective it is very funny. This in no way is a verdict on Mohammad for I respect that he was and is a sacred, enlightened being. However, to the western person, it is ridiculous to believe that by killing other human beings with diverging opinions that they will be rewarded handsomely with x amount of virgins. The suicide bomber is in my opinion a brainwashed rogue. This is my western perspective. It is a desperate act. If there is a God that would accept such a person of indiscriminate destruction then we are all in trouble. What do you think? Please exchange dialogue with respect. If I have offended anyone then I apologize. I simply wish to marginalize the desperate, unfeeling acts of destruction and to point out the humor that has cause so much dissension throughout the world. If my God had been depicted in such a way I might be offended but I would not be driven to harm others. That is all.
at the end of the day: Publish and be damned!
I'm beginning to realise some fundamental problems:
1. Secularism – Denmark is one of the most secular european nations.
2. According to reports..only about 3% of the Danes attend church once a week.
Will u expect such community to respect other religions when they don't even respect theirs?
In addition, they are not prepared for the influx of new migrants and therefore become rather xenophobic. They feel threatened and so will stop at nothing to stem out all these alien elements so to speak.
Aboutariq,
You can not imagine how much I share your sentiments. I would challenge you to find a country with more cultures/religions/races living together and getting along than here. Today I was at a business meeting which was attended by caucasions, hispanics, a middle easterner, several African Americans(blacks) an Asian American and a gay man. I have no idea what their religion is, since in this country that is personal business which is not normally discussed in the business world. I am just opposed to using the power of the state to enforce 'being nice' to others. I should have every right to insult any ones race/religion/sexual orientation. I personally would never do this, but the gov't should not prevent it.
I have enjoyed having a rational dicussion and reasoned disagreement with you. This is the kind of thinking/action which allows eventual understanding, or at least tolerance. I hope we can continue this in the future. I am fairly new to this internet thing. Too often it is used by people to either waste time, avoid work or check out porn. Had I know that it could be used to discuss issue with people of such differing perspectives I would have started using it long ago.
wylie,
I have no doubt about your experience…it's what we called in transit…they are strangers after all..and u chose not to insult any of them because of your upbringing.
"I should have every right to insult any ones race/religion/sexual orientation." as quoted by u. Since when and on which imperial decree? Though u said personally u would not do it..but by harbouring this idea/concept and letting others do the job is just as bad! U need to have your head examined..
I do not log on for almost 2 days and miss a sermon from Kamran#224 and being told how the Jews attacked the WTC by Gin#220. For you muslums who do not like sterotypes being made about your religion I have a bit of advice-rather than fussing at the west, start shouting down your fellow believers who are determined to convert me to Islam(by force if necessary) or who are living in a fantasy world. I know life is hard for many Muslums, but that is not the fault of the Jews, or Christians. It is not like Muslums were living in paradise until 1948. In fact, not much has changed in 1000 years. For a long time it was the same in the west. But after killing each other for hundreds of years(and those of us of european descent are real good at killing) we discovered that the primacy of individual rights leads to a more peaceful society. You lead your life, I lead mine, and we leave each other alone.
I truely hope the east and west can reach an understanding, but I am not optimistic.
I do not log on for almost 2 days and miss a sermon from Kamran#224 and being told how the Jews attacked the WTC by Gin#220. For you muslums who do not like sterotypes being made about your religion I have a bit of advice-rather than fussing at the west, start shouting down your fellow believers who are determined to convert me to Islam(by force if necessary) or who are living in a fantasy world. I know life is hard for many Muslums, but that is not the fault of the Jews, or Christians. It is not like Muslums were living in paradise until 1948. In fact, not much has changed in 1000 years. For a long time it was the same in the west. But after killing each other for hundreds of years(and those of us of european descent are real good at killing) we discovered that the primacy of individual rights leads to a more peaceful society. You lead your life, I lead mine, and we leave each other alone.
I truely hope the east and west can reach an understanding, but I am not optimistic.
Blackfeline #
Admendment #1 of the Constitution or the United States of America-ratified in 1789- Congress shall make no law respecting the establishmnet of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceable to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances-
THAT is the decree that gives those in my country the right to say whatever we want. It and the other 10 admendments ares the basis for almost all freedom in the world today(Britons excepted) In 1789 there were exactly 2 democracies in the world. If you were to study the state of world when this was written you will realize some place have not changed much sinced then….you figure out which those are. We were not perfect then and are not now, but we keep working at it. So no….I do not need my head examined.
I find that when a person has no intellectual argument to make, they turn to insults. Freedom be upon you!
I apologize. My spelling/grammer is horrible in my last post. I have had a long day, but there is no excuse for such a lack of proof reading. Perhaps I was overcome by emotion….!
After reading my last post I must express my sincere apologies. My spelling/grammer is shocking. I have been working for many hours, but nothing excuses this lack of proof reading. Perhaps I was a little emotional….!
im glad u recognise that u belong to the dark ages and no amount of intellectual discourse can ever change your narrow minded view..and we are secretly laughing when the President of USA said recently…yes to freedom of speech BUT show respect for others. I hope u held your head high..if it's still there..when someone spat in your face..figure of speech or do u prefer literally?
Blackfeline #244
I would love to have intellectual discourse with you, but I have yet to see you are capable of such a thing.
You obviously feel the need to 'secretly laugh' at the president of the US for what he recently said. Guess what…I can laugh at him in the open. In fact, short of threatening his safety, I can say anything about him I want….and I often do, in the open and in front of other people, with no fear. Try that about your 'leader'.
And you can rhetorically 'spit in my face' all you want and will get no physical reaction. Of course, we both know you would not have the nerve to literally do such a thing….unless my hands were tied or I was a woman.
Hello all
It is great to be able to read all the deferent views on this thread. but I am sadened by some of the hatefull posts..
I am an Arab Chriscian who was boarn in Israel, my mparents are both Palastinian and now live in Canada, I have friens from countless cultures and faiths.
When I heard of the cartoons my first reaction was, distain for the people who published them as it was inopropriate and disrespectfull to do so…event though I do agree that they and anyone else for that matter do have the right to do so.
Now as I see the reaction by in the midle east, I am sadened by it , as it seems that the fundamintalists have won again, I often here muslims say the Islam is a relegion of peace and tolirence..it is too bad that the extremists are giving the opossit image.
I read a post by the SANDMONKEY in which he gave a range of actions in which the muslim world could have punished the persons involed in a non violent way, things like sueing the papers, or mailling letters to the companies which advertise in them..that would have been much mor effective in stopping any future publications of such images. not to forget launching educational forums to teach people about islam.
But like always the extremists tend to make the most noise and highjack the whole issue for thier own agendas,
people like "Osama Bin Laden ,post 180" who think that having a taliban style government will be a great thing for muslims and the world…..we all saw how backwards they pushed Afganistan.and how opressive and they were. all I can say to him is open your eyes, because if that ever happened the simple freedom and joy you have of posting a blog like this would be forbidden.
I just hope that more peaple will respect and discuss thier difrances like this rather than always resort to violance….
Just think of all the energy that is waisted which could be used to the advancement of humanity
I wish you all a pleasent day
–> DeH Kex #229 & #236
We don't care what OUR TVs say as far as we can see TVs around the world except YOURS. but that doesn't matter we don't need to watch it to know about you and about your reasons for killing Palestinian resistants and civilians with them.You have voices that do the job for you in America and Britain.Your beloved country, Whatever You call it,is lead by a government of terrorists who use killing to win the elections.Your electoral programs are based on how much killing is done to pretend that security can be achieved for the common man.You are the ones who are trapped in a country that is incapable of making peace because with the reign of peace There would be no reason for many of your blood-thirsty politicians to exist.
-> DeH Kex
Arrogance is your language; You say:
you "will stop killing" us when we "stop blowing up""Islam creates slaves."Then you "guess" we "are all slaves"
I wonder who you mean . If you mean Muslims, Palestinians are not all muslims,Some of them are christian, but they are all fighting you each in his way to liberate their land.And we support them all against you.
Nobody says you must stop killing as far as you get killed when doing so.
Islam has nothing to do with the way some countries are ruled.Your democracy is not needed since it is an armed democracy that allows killing innocent civilians and domolishing peoples houses because they are Palestinian.
Hello again
First I must apologize for the my spelling errors in the last post as I wrote it at 2am,
Getting back to the subject, I have a question for some of you who are on the side of the violent protesters.
First let me say that most of us agree that the cartoons where offensive to Muslims, and even to me as they did not add anything of value. and many of us understand that for a Muslim it is HARAM to depict any of the prophets in any way shape or form.
What I do not understand is why then is it ok for the cartoons to be published in this post? and why aren't the hard liners like "Osamabinladen" and the like making more of a fuss about that. infect I have not heard a thing said about it.
Please note that I understand why they were posted in here…but that is the same reason why some publications in the EU republished the images in the first place, it was to let people know what the whole fuss is about. (of course I still think that initially the first paper was just trying to sell more copies by creating controversy.
I would also like to post the question, If your faith is so strong then how could a simple cartoon cause so much rage that you begin to act in complete contradiction of your faith?
Last but not least, If your belief is so fragile that a simple cartoon insults you to the point of killing someone then should you not question your faith even more?
God or Allah gave us free will, lets use it wisely, and stop being so sensitive and ready to do harm just because someone does not agree with us or view things from our perspective. we are all human beings with red blood flowing in our veins.
God or Allah gave us free will, lets use it wisely, and stop being so sensitive and ready to do harm just because someone does not agree with us or view things from our perspective. we are all human beings with red blood flowing in our veins.
So Diplomatic, however, it's not a matter of perspective, Our Prophet who you are talking about, the one who brought the light to the world of darkness Europe suffered of at the time.
He's the master of human kind, he's the one that we all wish – as muslims- to join in the heaven.
Dear, it's not a point of view, moreover it will never be, beliefs, religion and respect and not sensitivity what we are defending.
Yes we all are human beings with red blood, so we shouldn't be ironic when we represent each other.
Please look for the truth and never regret doing so, but never but the truth. Wish you the best if you did.
Thank you for the reply and for your explanation…
Although as Muslims you may hold the beliefs that your truth is the only truth, but considering every group believe that their truth is the ultimate truth…so who's to say that you are right and not a nudist monk, or a Hindu or a native American, see it is a mater of perspective. According to Christianity the only way into heaven is through Jesus, who's to say they are wrong or right, it is what some people choose to believe and we will only know once we are dead who (maybe).
Unfortunately when people think that their truth is the only truth and are willing to kill and die for at the drop of a hat, we end up with the situation we are in now, where racism and intolerance prevail.
I respect that you believe in your truth and respect that you feel that you need to defend your them, but that dose not mean that other beliefs are less valid, nor does it give you the right to do harm to when because someone questioned your views.
To start attacking everyone who is not a Muslim because a few people chose to question your beliefs in a less that tasteful way can never be justified. Tying to do so by saying I am defending my religion is plain hypocrisy, especially when in your case you say that Islam is a religion of tolerance and peace, it is like President Bush saying that he is a Christian and yet justifying war (a great Cora diction).
also da wollte ick mal wat saren ja? ok….guck mich an…und guck meine hoden? die sind alle alt und zerknittert und fallen ab. ick will mick kastrieren lassen aber hab null jeld. bitte spenden sie alle damit ich meine 5 hoden bis null machen kann. danke und gruesse an ninja, alekhandro und wixbold. bis dann ihr kartoffel pupsies
Ali,
Thank-you for your generous comments regarding my viewpoint #231. We all have one and it is refreshing to hear such kind words. Thanks.
Wylie,
Now I understand perfectly well…u are such a nervous wretch! poor thing..easily agitated..profusely apologising for grammatical/spelling errors? How to engage in intellectual discourse..lol…no wonder u have to vent on others to cover up your shortcomings…relax..go see a shrink if u must! But I think the best cure for u is "Show Respect!"
Blackfeline
Wow! You are an angry man. You ask me to show respect. What have you done to earn it? You find my apology for grammatical and typing mistakes a weakness? I call it good manners. In your first post directed to me you said I need to have my head examined. The only statement I have made that could be considered a 'personal attack' on you is infering your threats are hollow as you would not have the nerve to carry them out, and that was only after you made several derogatory statements about me. You seem to be driven mad by the fact that I do not care if you respect me or not. But you demand that I respect your beliefs. Think hard about this idea…I know it is somewhat foreign to you. I totally respect you right to worship as you please. However, I do not respect you beliefs. How can I? They are not my own. That does not mean I will be rude and try to be offensive. However I have the freedom to do so if I want.
I have never met someone who reacts as you do. You are mad that I claim the right to offend your beliefs. I have not even made offensive remarks. I am tempted to do so, just to see how you would respond, but I was not raised that way. You might as well get used to the idea that in my country, freedom of speech is paramount. You will not change that no matter how hard you try. You should give it a try, it tends to make for a peaceful and prosperous society. If you would like to actually engage in polite debate I will continue responding to your posts. Otherwise, just keep venting your spleen and I will read with amusement. Freedom be upon you!
what's new? yawn…zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Peacekeeper, again, well done. You speak the language of the enlightened. Are you a therapist? You certainly sound like one. Also, has your journey been that of a truth seeker. What sort of books do your read? I am curious. To some extent you remind me of me. When I read your insightful rantings (meant positively) I feel like I am reading something I might have written. Yet, you are an English man and I am from the other side of the world and from a different culture. Peacekeeper fits you perfectly. You try to unite, not divide. I am impressed.
Well I think that this is ridiculous, for one, they are just cartoons, second of all if they were drawings of a religious figure more beleived in the West no one would have paid it any attention to this and life would go on. But no, since it is a figure held in high regard in the East it is horrible and offensive. Give me a break, you know I really believe that you muslims need to learn how to take a joke and laugh it off like the rest of the world.
How is the solution of threatening to bomb a newspaper office a good way of getting ones point across? It just perpetuates those stereotypes held by most of the world that people in the East are crazy psychopathic maniacs. It really does nothing to help support your cause, use your words not violence as my mother used to say to me when I was a child.
just a note to say ive made a blog just for the cartoons for people to get if ever they vanish. the link is at : http://prophetmohammedcartoons.blogspot.com/
thanks
cartoonz
First, thank you for posting the cartoons soI could see what has everyone so tight in the britches. I am not going to pander by saying I find them "offensive" as well, but they are demeaning and rude. I can see that I might find them offensive if I were a muslim. However, the root of this problem has nothing to do with what Islam is, but what Islam is percieved to be. As long as Islam tolerates and even gives tacit approval to the actions of fundamental Islamic sects, terrorism and Islam will be inextricable. I know the claim is that Islam denounces terrorism, but in practice, no attempt is made to curb terrorism against infidels, and when given the choice between helping an infidel track down Islamic terrorist and doing nothing, Islam and Islamic states have done nothing or as close to nothing as they feel politically prudent. The simple fact is that much of the world relates Islam and terorism because that is what their experience is. It is not Islamaphobia, racism or religionism or any other ism you can think of. It is simply the impact of global media that allows the sensationalization of everything, and the absolute fact that terorism is performed in the name of Islam. It is not fair. It is not entirely accurate. It is what is. Whine about it, burn down buildings and murder over it to prove its validity, or work to change it. The burden is not on the world or the west, but on Islam.
Excellent points Mr. Stevan Massa,
You are correct and insightful in your assertion that it is a perception issue. The west associates Islam with terrorism becasue as you deftly pointed out there seems to be little in the way of action that Islamic countries are doing to stamp out these extremists. Where are the moderates? The burden to change the perception is, as you pointed out, on Islam.
Good point you make Stevan
It is inconceivable to me how, not one Islamic nation has ever denounced violence, and how often when a spokes person gets out to denounce terrorism, there always seems to be a "BUT".
On the other hand the western media seems to always put enfaces on the fact that a crime was committed by a Muslim just as they did in the US regarding African Americans a decade ago regardless whether the act was in the name of Islam or just by some common criminal or whether it had any bearing on the act itself.
For instance the Palestinian issue is not about Muslims and Jews it is about Occupation of a group of peoples land who happened to be Arabs (Muslims and Christians), but some how the issue has been highjack by religious zealots and the media, who have made it into a Muslim versus Jew issue.
It sickens me to see this happen.
Hmmm, I can see you all again and again talking about the WTC. OK, At first I would like again to present in name of all Arabs and all Muslims condolences to America and all American, British, Dutch and others who had find their death in terrorists action INCLUDING THE DEATH OF ARAB’S ANS MUSLIMS ..You cannot know at what point we can feel your pain…And you know why? Because we had suffer and suffer during 50 years of these kind of action…Undoubtedly, we know better than others what bombs can do and what killing hundreds of people can make…We deal with this every day and so we can't be and we cant support these actions…. Simply Because it is Barbaric, horrible and INHUMAN…And those who said that the majority of Arab’s and Muslims are with these terrorist action…I can tell them, You can make up any lie and repeat it over and over but no matter how many times you repeat a lie it does not make it a fact. I can also remind them that We did not judge that American people are all criminals and terrorist when the politics in America decided to strike Baghdad and Lybia..Let alone the atomic bomb over Japan…
And talking about Palestine Conflict with Israel.. Is it so hard for us to learn that the UNITED NATIONS created Israel out of Palestine, and the Israelis inflicted the oppression they received from the nazis on the Palestinians?! If Americans can’t find answers to their questions, the media is usually their next resort…Prove me wrong!!…But believe me if people actually knew more of the region’s history rather than current events including that of the Palestinians, many would reconsider their views…And wait a minute, many of AMERICAN'S understand that Israeli treatment of Palestinians has been immoral and outrageous…But for one reason or another they won't admit it. Can I say HYPOCRACY NOT DEMOCRACY…I can act like stereotype person and say that AMERICAN'S abandoned THEIR principles. Why are the American people now against the idea of Liberty and Freedom for all?!!!!!!! When did YOU abandon the principles found in the declaration of Independence? When did YOU ALL renounce the beliefs of Thomas Jefferson and stop believing that freedom is a God given right for all..HUH?
Israel has invaded another and has brutally ruled for the past 35 years…. This nation has defied international law in its invasion and occupation….During the past 35 years this nation has been condemned by the nations of the world on at least 70 occasions and has also been condemned by international human rights groups for its brutal repression of a freedom seeking people..The killing of innocent people of Palestine is rampant but the media presents only one side and never chooses to report that the Palestinian death rate is about 600% higher than the Israeli death rate…the media seems to suggest the loss of Palestinian women and children is far less serious than the loss of Israeli women and children, an attitude which smacks of racism.
When Israel invaded Jenin and refused to allow the world to watch as purported War Crimes were being committed…WHY? Israel refused to allow a UN inspection team to determine if any War crimes were committed in jenin…Meanwhile the US invaded because Iraq refused to let a UN weapons inspection team into their country. WHAT A CONTRUDICTION !! the entire civilized world has recognized that occupied people have a right to resist an illegal occupation, a fact that the media has chosen to ignore… the media has sold its soul,, but even worse it has convinced the American people to renounce the soul of the American Experiment.
Talking about what you call suicide bombers..Cant you see that Israeli propaganda experts have tried to spread the myth that recent Palestinian suicide bombers represent some horrible new form of terrorist warfare….in point of fact, suicide missions and terror tactics are as American as apple pie. Throughout history, young men have sacrificed their lives for causes they felt reflected the survival of their nations. In World War II, suicide missions were routine…Military officers sent men on missions where the chances of return were negligible… THEN Why should Palestinian sacrifices be viewed in any different light..huh?
Is it so hard to believe that young Palestinians would sacrifice their lives to kill Israelis when they see Israelis killing their family and friends, and when they witness a brutal and endless Israeli occupation? If anyone motivates and controls Palestinian suicide bombers it is ARIEL SHARON…Sharon screams he is at war…And he has made himself at war. Under these Israeli created conditions, The suicide missions are completely understandable…
Few of AMERICANS are capable of committing, or even understanding, such a sacrifice. it is worthwhile remembering that Sharon's War began with Palestinians throwing stones and Israelis killing children in response…When Israelis persisted in killing stone throwers Palestinians resorted to small arms. When Israel escalated with tanks and invasions Palestinians recently began to deploy anti tank weapons…What is surprising is not that young Palestinians have dedicated themselves to killing Israeli civilians but that they have waited so long, and so patiently, before doing so…. Israel, you are responsible for suicide bombers… And they will not stop until Israel itself faces defeat. Suicide bombers will be Sharon's and others legacy to Israel.
Dear Peacekeeper,
Thank you for the wonderfully kind comments you have made about this issue.
After reading many of the incredibly racist comments made by people on both sides of this argument, I was incredibly comforted to see that understanding and intelligent people like you are still out there.
If only the politicians of the world were like you. Then maybe instead of encouraging hatred among their populations, they would encourage forgiveness and understanding.
Both the West and the Islamic world are guilty of wrongdoings. Not only regarding the cartoon issue, but issues in the past as well. However, it's not fair to continue the hatred over past issues.
Innocent people in New York, London, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Guantanamo Bay have been killed and tortured because of a few peoples hidden agendas.
We need to stop hatred for each other now more than ever. It is thanks to wise people like you who give us hope.
Thank you once again and may God bless you as well as all of the innocent people who lost their lives due to terrorist attacks, illegal wars, and illegal detention facilities all over the world.
well dear 281 since the suicide wount stop our struggle wount stop.
We too love our country and its my right to do so and i am training daily befor army to make the best soldier to serve the country i love…back to the topic you said that sacrifice was known in ww2 but it was made not to strike civilians but to strike fully orgonized opponent side.Please share us your wisdom tell me how can we fight somwthing that isnt there the terror orgonization on the enemy grounds whithout hurting the population that DEFENDS them and also CHOOSES THEM AS THEIR LEADERS???You think its so easy whith tanks to stop the mob?you must know that to shoot your gun even once you have to get orders form three comanders untill then you may use rubber bulets…7 soldiers VS mob of 400 people throwing rocks at them …very easy for you to say you TRAITOR!!you said you live in america and people like you make it rot from inside
Mr.R,
I think that you made many worthy points regarding the suicide bomber and the oppression Palestinians have suffered for the past 35 years. You seem to have thought things out fairly well. However, I disagree in principle on several points. Yes, I am a westerner from the U.S. of Mexican decent. That, however, should not preclude me from giving an unbiased opinion since I don't vote and certainly avoid politics. I can see things for what they are. We are not brainwashed here by our newspapers. The truth always comes out one way or another because of freedom of the press. Blaming the Israelis for your suicide bomber mentality is weak. I understand that it has become an effective way of fighting back. However, you allow children to strap bombs on to fight and kill innocent people. You might say that Israelis kill innocent people first therefore you retaliate. That makes you the same then and you have no argument. When you revenge someone you set yourself below him but when you forgive, you set yourself above him. Those are principles that I wish all humans from all countries would adopt. We seem to believe that violence is the answer and so we celebrate in the streets when others die. To make things worse, your government and ideology makes ridiculous promises that suicide bombers will get X amount of virgins. That is a joke. No, I am not poking fun or degrading your religion or culture. Just pointing out from my perspective how unrighteous many of your beliefs are. We American are not without stain. Yes, we have bombed the Japanese to end the war and currently detain prisoners of war or terrorists as we call them in Cuba. Our philosophy sometimes is hypocritical indeed. However, we have the declaration of independence and other documents that are a general guide to keep us in check. Sometimes we do act in a misguided way but allow for oppositon and dialogue to correct those injustices. There is currently a lot of backlash againt Guantanamo in our country and against the war in Iraq. The new Palestinian government will not even recognize Israels right to exist. Hamas has a goal to destroy Israel. A government formed with these nefarious goals is bound to fail because it is unjust and unrighteous. The world is turning more and more against you. You, like Iran, are isolating yourselves. Why can't the Palestinians continue to work for peace with the Israelis? Why has your new government decided to ignore past deals with the Israelis? Hamas will fail until a more clearly thinking government is put in place. I wish for Palestinians to have success but only if it is righteous, rational and without random violence. You, R, seem to be clearly thinking things out but as I pointed out earlier, blaming will not cut it. We all have to take responsibility for our chosen reactions to others and circumstances. I someone insult me I have choices to make regarding my reaction. I can choose to respond as my enemy, ignore him or teach him that he cannot defeat me with mere words. The caricatures that have inflamed the Muslim world is a prime example. Radicals act unreasonably and make fools of themselves when they burn flags and rant like troglodites on the streets. Remember, he who angers you conquers you. Peace to all and goodwill.
Nicely said Robert Ruiz
I am of Palestinian decent, and am ashamed of the acts being committed by the extremist side. Although it hearts me to here of the deaths of Palestinian children by IDF I can not understand how mothers allow their children to strap bombs on their bodies and blowup other innocent human beings and actualy think that they are going to be rewarded in in the afterlife. (isn't it a sin to kill your self, or unarmed people anyway?)
I have heard and can somewhat understand that when people are desperate they can be driven to do many things, but for the past 30 years I have seen or heard of people dying on both sides of this conflict and except for a short time in 1994-1995 both people have acted in the same manor ….." I kill one of you and distroy a home and you retaliate by killing another one of us" … never really achieving anything except to bread more hatered… it just makes me wonder are they ever going to learn that continuing on this path will never achieve peace to either side? I wonder if one day some leader would arise and say "hey why don't we try a new approach? lets attempt to coexist"..
But instead we end up with a Sharon and Hamas governments, who are bent on distroying one another….I say enough is enough.
As for the cartoons I think people should just let it go… I am sure the whole world has heard the reaction and the point has been made so at this point why are people still protesting and burning flags is beyond me…
After all they are still published on this website and probably a hundred other muslim publications, and no one has made a fuss about that so let us be realistic …this is not about dumb cartoons it is about extremist politics and personal agendas.
Hope you all have a peacfull day.
My message is addressed to Gin (who claims to be a Muslim). Could u kindly point out for me the surah (chapter) in the Koran that states that making images of God (Allah)and the Prophets are forbidden (Imam Humble was the one to originate the idea). Thus, neither the Prophet nor God forbid the making of images.[For your info, images of Prophets, and Muslim saints are freely available both in Iran and Turkey. If U doubt me, go see those images on the Internet).
Secondly, the Koran and the Prophet clearly state that a Muslim commits a cardinal sin by calling another Muslim a non-Muslim (thus, you have commited a cardinal sin).
Thirdly, let me remind you that during his life, our great Prophet was abused and tortured by non-believers (in Tua'if, stones were thrown at him). His only reaction was to pray for the good of his enemies, and ask God's forgiveness for them. Did you know that the greatest insult to the Prophet was committed by Muslims like you who butchered his grandson, and dragged the household of the Prophet in chains from Karbella to Damascus. Furthermore, did you know that after Mecca was conquered by the armies of your beloved Yazid, 445 children of rape were born. Today, people like you calling themselves Muslims are going around burning and destroying private property, looting private businesses and killing God-fearing people (whether Jews, Christian and Muslims)during their protests. Tell me, my brother Muslim, how are they pleasing their God and the Prophet?
Rather than calling me an ignorant, look at yourself in the mirror, and tell me honestly which edict of the Koran and Ahadees you are following by supporting suicide bombers (who kill indiscriminately). You hate Jews, but you claim all their Prophets and onionted kings as prophets of Islam (tell me brother, when did they become Muslims? But if they did, then their children, now called Jews, must also be Muslims).
I suggest to you, Gin (whosoever you are, and whatever your religion is) please read the Koran, and the history of Islam, which would educate you, and put some sense into your angry head.
Shame on you.
Mougly,
I am pleased that you felt my sentiments on various subjects related to your country and culture were with merit. It is good to communicate with others from around the world. Invariably, we are all biased to some extent toward our country or culture. Both of us were able to step back and criticize our own countries for the injustices that are occasionally practiced and continue to this day. No country is perfect and humans are fallible. You raise many good questions. Why do governments continue in the same paths that have proven unsuccessful? Violence has never been the answer and yet we persist. We must elect leaders that are righteous and vote them out if they prove otherwise. The problem is perspective. I might think our president is unjust while another American believes he is set in the right course. I wonder what the most high thinks of the mess humans have created. Will he step in soon or let it go on until we fix it ourselves. Sadly, the mentality of the few (those in power) affect the masses. God help us all.
I am Roman Catholic but yes I do believe that the cartoons are racist and disrespect the Islamic faith. We Europeans that call ourselves civilised and spend endless hours defending civil liberties should have known better.
I also believe many Europeans are gripped by a growing fear of both the spread of Islam and of growing number of Arabs. Demography shows that the influx of the Arab culture is leaving a noticible impact in Europe and can change the notion of cultures in Europe as we once knewit. Is this wrong, I do not know? What will happen if one day Islam will become the dominant religion? Will there be the same amount of freedom of expression that we have now in spite of its flaws?
I disagree about the reaction to these cartoons because it spurred more hatred and racism. Violence should be never used as a solution
Dear DeH Kex
As long as you are saying it is your country with no mention to PALESTINE then allow me to say you are occupying the land.. It is not your country.. Israel is a united nation resolution.. Why aren’t you taught that a land called Palestine did exist, but became Israel in 1948?!! Out of sudden, there's a nation named Israel!! Out of sudden Palestine been erased out of the maps!! Makes no sense you know. Needless to tell you the whole story of how the united nation created Israel out of Palestine…
Then you said:” sacrifice was known in ww2 but it was made not to strike civilians but to strike fully organized opponent side"… Sorry, but you makes me laugh. Let me ask you, when USA used the atomic bomb on Japan. Was everyone who was killed a Japanese SOLDIER? Obviously not.
And during the Viet-Nam War USA justified dropping poison on civilians, and conducing terrorist operations both inside South Viet-Nam and in North Viet-Nam…It was only when young America fought the United States Government to a standstill that America's terrorism against Viet-Nam ended…Had Viet-Nam attacked America? Of course not. USA justified terrorizing Vietnamese by claiming it was for the greater good of peace and freedom…After U.S.A used terrorism against Vietnamese, they used it against them. And ultimately USA withdrew. Should Palestinians ignore the lessons of history? Palestinians like Viet – Nam people, they are also entitled to believe that giving their lives in the hope it will bring their country freedom is a noble pursuit and a great sacrifice…Then you said “How can we fight something that isn’t there the terror organization on the enemy grounds without hurting the population that DEFENDS them and also CHOOSES THEM AS THEIR LEADERS???” See, now you are justifying the hurting of population while condemned the victims on your side as they are civilians. And what do you mean by defending them.. How many kids got killed? Hmm do you think those kids are defending terrorist? Tell me, how can 10 years old kid Hurt Israelis soldiers? If one throw you with a rock you gonna kill him?!! The whole world witnessed the killing of that kid named Mohammed Al-DORA, they killed him with cold blood, the kid was crying and he was holding no rock at all.. What about that 2 months old baby, she got a bullet directly on her heart.. The list too long to be mentioned.. What I want to say: there is premeditation on killing a lot of kids and a lot more of Palestinians civilians… Who elected Sharon’s? Who killed the former Prime Minister Mr. Rabin and why?.. Tell me who was responsible of the massacre at Dair Yassen in 1948, which designed to put fear into all Palestinian people. And the planned massacres at Sabra and Shatila refugee camps in 1982. to Jenin massacre 2003.. Once again the list too long to be mentioned..
In conclusion..I am against all kind of violence including the violence of palestinians but it is impossible to deny the similarities between the oppression of the Jews in World War II and the oppression of the Palestinians since 1948. We know about how the Jews were thrown into concentration camps and killed, but how much do we know about the Palestinians who lived in refugee camps and then later killed?
There is a lot of wonderful people around the world…holding signs and raise their voices in support of freedom for the Palestinian people. Violation of the terms of Jewish exile has caused much suffering for all parties in the Middle East. The actions of Israelis soldiers a blemish on the Jewish people…All mankind is told that Israel represents Jewry. For me this is utter nonsense…Heretics cannot represent the Torah people.. Those guilty of massive cruelty towards the Palestinians cannot represent a merciful people all I can say.
May the Palestinian people, may the Jewish people know no more agony and may we all regardless of religion, race or nationality be worthy of the day when we all live in joy, love, peace and the world shall no more experience any kind of suffering.
Liberty, democracy and human rights are but slogans the west throws at your face any time they want to exercise pression on you to achieve their materialistic and imperialistic goals.Now The public enemy that threatens freedom and democracy and the welfare of humanity used to be the Soviet Union and the communist block that no longer exists.It's not good to live without ennemy. It's not politically correct.The ideal ennemy for the west is now Islam and Arab Muslims.Guantanamo camp is an illustration of the way the west uses freedom and human rights to serve their interests . They created a no man's land that has no law to give themselves the privilege to torture people among whom many are innocent.Guantanamo sums it all.It shows how a so called civilised and democratic country can treat people.
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