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The News of the World today has a snapshot from a video showing British troops abusing some Iraqi boys, supposedly shot in Iraq in 2004.
SHAMED BY 42 BRAINLESS BLOWS
By Robert Kellaway
TODAY we expose a rogue squad of British soldiers who savagely attacked a defenceless bunch of Iraqi teenagers �and with 42 brutal blows brought shame on our nation and its proud army.
The horrifying scenes on these pages will shock the world and ignite a huge military scandal.
They were captured on a secret home video � apparently filmed for "fun" by a corporal�and show at least eight of his hulking comrades cruelly:
DRAGGING four weedy rioters�all apparently in their early teens�off the street and behind the high walls of a secluded army compound,
BEATING them senseless with vicious blows from batons, boots and fists,
IGNORING their pitiful pleas for mercy, until the incident climaxes with what appears to be an NCO delivering a sickening full-force kick in the genitals of a cringeing lad pinned to the ground.
All the while the callous cameraman delivers a stomach-churning commentary urging his mates on, cackling with laughter and screaming: "Oh yes! Oh yes! You're gonna get it. Yes, naughty little boys! You little f***ers, you little f***ers. DIE! Ha, ha!"
…
Our informant said: "These Iraqis were just kids. Most haven't even got shoes on."Those eight soldiers were pumped up and out of control. They're an insult to the thousands of soldiers who have worked so hard in Iraq with courage and dignity for so long.
"They're nothing but a gang of thugs, a disgrace to themselves, their regiment and country."
…
A crackling radio message to the troops pinpoints a target: "Black top, blue bottoms! Black top, blue bottoms! GO!"
The camera then cuts to eight soldiers returning with four prisoners, gripped in headlocks. The squad march their captives to the compound gate and drag them inside�out of sight from the rioters outside. Then the horror begins.
PRISONER 1 is hauled in wearing a dark blue T-shirt, blue jeans and white trainers�the only victim not in bare feet.
His captor releases the headlock, stands him up and�with combat helmet on and visor down�lands a crushing head butt. He rips the youngster's T-shirt over his head and smashes his right fist twice into his kidneys and once into his head.
In panic the terrified captive desperately clings to the lanyard of the soldier's baton in an attempt to stop it being used on him.
His pitiful cries of "No! Please!" are clearly heard. But the mocking commentator merely puts on a childlike voice and mimics his Iraqi accent: "No, pleeese�don't hurt me."
Another soldier grabs the lad by the neck and hurls him to the floor to be kicked and beaten again. The head-butt soldier then raises his baton and brings it crashing down on him.
PRISONER 2, in blue T-shirt and grey trousers, is marched in, gripped by the shoulder. His captor forces him to the ground and hits him about the body and legs with his baton.
As he unleashes ten blows the boy twists and squirms around the soldier's ankles trying to save himself. A soldier in a floppy hat�not part of the snatch squad�looks on. He is clearly unsure of what to do but does not look alarmed or make any attempt to stop the beating.
Instead he helps fix plastic restraining ties on the lad's wrists. Another burly soldier, in desert camouflage and webbing belt with water bottle attached, strides up and whacks the Iraqi's backside with a baton. The prisoner's feet jerk in agony before he appears to pass out, a dark patch that looks like blood around his head. Meanwhile PRISONER 3, in white T-shirt and jeans, is booted in the back and body six times by two soldiers.
As he struggles on the floor one squaddie grabs him by the shoulder, kicks him twice and cracks him about the legs and bare feet with his baton.
PRISONER 4, barefoot in light blue T-shirt with beige trousers, is beaten before being picked bodily off the ground like a sack of potatoes, dumped on his chest and held with his arms up his back by two of the squad.
One soldier, identified by our source as a sergeant, walks up behind him and kicks him hard between the legs from behind.
The boy's body arches in pain and the soldier behind the camera is heard poking fun and groaning: "Oorrgghh!"
As another squad troop past and take no notice a soldier's voice is heard to scream: "In the f***ing head!"
The beating sequence on the video, which appears to be a series of excerpts from the incident, takes up 60 seconds of the 3minute 12second tape. Our investigators counted 42 separate blows but there were probably many more not caught on camera.
The video also has two other shocking sequences. In one, the camera approaches an Iraqi corpse while a soldier draws back a blanket to display it as a sickening trophy.
The cameraman then commits an act considered the ultimate insult to an Iraqi�and kicks the dead man twice in the face, humiliating him in death. As the head of the man, aged in his 20s, is lifted to face the lens a soldier sniggers: "He's been a bad mother****er."
Another scene shows an Iraqi man grabbed by three soldiers and forced to kneel behind a wall where he is kicked hard in the chest.
What a brave army of terrorist.
By next week I expect the pages on the News of the World website will be changed, but you can read more on that here and here. Video is here and here.
It�s pure tragedy. I hope at least such exposes will force the occupation terrorist army to be more disciplined rather than being able to hide them. But wondering, just wondering, if one day we will ever see a war crimes trials for Blair and Bush!!
[sources: NotW, NotW, NotW film, CNN, BBC, Video, Aljazeera, Google News, Islamonline, AP, Reuters]
{ 81 } Comments
This is the army of liberation !!
walaw !
Pure insane.
Where did the humanity go?These were kids.
I bet those Brits soldiers are bigoted bastards.Hope they suffer in prison.
How many Iraqi kids beaten which were not filmed or being laughed at?
Haitham:
You dream a beautiful dream, but alas, none of the real criminals of the world will ever see the Hague from the receiving end of the gavel.
C'mon,they are just fooling around with them!
This is a very common game and practise in the UK.
I play this game with the Queen every summer when I go there. She got a mean kick, but I always win.
Seriously, stop preaching us about freedom,democracy and civilization, you aint better
How many documented military abuses have we seen in Iraq so far? Many. How many incidents happened that we don't know about? Probably more.
How many soldiers have been indicted for these crimes so far? One? Two?
It's time the "leaders" of the free countries put a leash on their dogs.
Without names of the abused or abusers or cameramen or source of the tape question the reality. This is way out of character for the Brits. Tapes like this are regularly produced for propaganda. Expect that this was a tape produced for inciting violence against the Brits. Notice the shortage of body armor, covered faces, shortage of weapons. Can't say it didn't happen but question. By the way has anyone seen Jill Carrol around? Let's be even handed.
Gandalf, let me get this straight, you're suggesting that in some Arabic country, someone managed to get a couple of hundred people to fake a protest and then managed to recruit actors to pose as British soldiers, also managed to get someone with one hick of a British accent, and then did this? Then, somehow managed to deliver the tape to the newspaper on the hands of a real British soldier who served in Iraq and who was ready to pose as the whistle blower.
Sounds like conspiracy theory to me.
Gandalf,
What I hear you saying is that the Brits wouldn't do this. They're the "kinder, gentler occupation." Out of character, a suspicious maybe. Out of the realm of possibility, certainly not.
Ali,
Regardless of what these young men 'did' or 'did not' do, the soldiers clearly have the upper hand. Beating them? You condone this?
Clearly both of your heads are so lost up the end of the dog-waggers, you have lost the ability to question the ethics of the occupying regimes.
this was taken on the set of a hollywood film. the american and british troops are angels sent from God through his prophet's George W. Bush and Tony Blair, to liberate the Iraqis from Satan's span: Saddam.
'WAR! uhh….good God…what is it good for…absolutly-nutin!'
to be fair, it does do my sarcasm good.
Ace,
It is impossible to determine the ages of the Iraqi men in the photos. I haven't seen any reliable documentation regarding their ages or names, etc.
You've simply made a convenient judgement here and, as such, it is easly dismissed.
Raymond,
Yes, in rare instances, activity such as that which is depicted in the photos can be indeed needed.
For instance, if these men played a role in a bombing or an ambush they could have information regarding those crimes and their interrogation could reveal information about future such crimes.
Perhaps this was simply one of those rare instances.
As for "the upper hand", I'm not sure that a batallion of soldiers would see it the same way if they had been picked off by, say, sniper fire or bombings.
You have assumed a kind of purity on the part of the Iraqi men when that could well have not been the case.
And before you suggest otherwise, I would respectfully remind you that you do not know the facts of this case any more than I do.
Perhaps you ought to consider your own inabilities to question what you see.
You have drawn certain conclusions based on flimsy visual evidence and second-hand explanations while I (and others) have actually wondered about the pictures before making any such pronouncements.
It seems that perhaps you are "lost up the end" of your own unwillingless to consider two sides of a story such as this.
Your indignation is noted, but, I'm afraid to say, it rings hollow without any sort of factual foundation.
The difference between our apporaches (yours and mine) is that I have asked questions where you have simply skipped ahead to the hair-trigger outrage bit.
And, no, that is something I cannot hosestly "condone".
Peace.
FIRAS: I FAIL TO SEE OR UNDERSTAND OF WHOM YOU WERE MAKING FUN. is that a way to criticise the british army or the TEENAGERS TRYING TO DEFEND THEMSELVES. so please make it clear because i truly did not like the way you were commenting earlier. instead of me replying on what you said i want you to make it clear again TO AVOID ANY MISUNDERSTANDINGS
Ali,
See the video tape an follow the news development of the story. Probably that will help you understand and see what is all this about.
leen,
From what I know about Firas, he is talking about the Brits and making fun of them.
Gandalf,
The Royal Military Police arrest a man over claims UK troops abused Iraqi civilians, the Ministry of Defence says. Ask them for the name if you wish. For me, they all (Allied Forces) are nothing but a formal army of terrorists.
LEEN:
First of all, thank you! Seriously, I'm glad you've demanded an explanation before shooting accusations!
Dear I was being sarcastic! I was making fun of the sick soldiers! I was making fun of them claiming to be a civilized nation meanwhile they are no better than those scum on the other side!
Nas used the same style in his reply (and I quote him: the American and British troops are angels sent from God through his prophet’s George W. Bush and Tony Blair) this is called sarcasm
Now, if you could please go over my comment you would read these lines "I play this game with the Queen every summer when I
go there"
I've written these word for the exact purpose that no one would think that I am siding with the scum(the Brit soldiers in the video) I mean to make it clear that I was sarcastic! And I've used the word :SERIOUSLY when I was talking about them preaching civilization and democracy to indicate that I'm not sarcastic anymore!
Thanks Sabbah for the clarification and thanks Leen for seeking me first, though I think my reply is very clear!
This has clear significance.An army is an army, a killing machine no more no less.Her Majesty's army shows today that no human rights, no democracy, no ethics can rule an army.They are trained to torture, to kill and to show no mercy.They've been brainwashed and turned into blood thirsty robot-like creatures.They know they have a so called "great nation" behind them that filled their hearts with hatred before sending them to that hell that is Iraq to do better than their American "friends"
Haitham–> thanks for your explanation because i was kind of hoping i`d get one today in order to go on with the discussion.
thanks again
as for you FIRAS, i would also like to thank you for making it clear again and i`m sorry if i seemed rude from my way of replying above. anyhow, i do agree with you on what you've mentioned earlier and i truly believe in it from all my heart especially in that statement you`ve made earlier (quoting you again) " them claiming to be a civilized nation meanwhile they are no better than those scum on the other side!" this is extremely true and very justified
anyhow i have nothing else to say about that video due to the fact that i am simply SHOCKED about those people claiming to WORK FOR HUMAN RIGHTS AND END UP DOING THE TOTAL OPPOSITE. what a shame! they better go and review their RESOLUTIONs such as "THE CONVENTION ON THE RIGHTS OF A CHILD" article 19 that CLEARLY STATES THAT CHILDREN OR TEENAGERS SHOULD NOT BE AND ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BE SUBJECTED TO ANY PHYSICAL violence. SO PLEASE someone explain to me if this has ever been followed by them? i dont want to start giving examples because that wil ltake me a while to stop.
Haitham,
Thank you for your suggestion. I have watched the 2 year old video and must say that it reveals little more than the written description you have posted here.
It is impossible to determine the ages of the Iraqis and, given the short span of the footage, equally impossible to establish what the Iraqi's were up to.
It does seem clear, judging by the scattering of the herd at the beginning of the clip, that they were up to no good. Perhaps even asking for trouble? Difficult to know.
What is known is that their antics were answered swifty and presumably in an effort to disuade others (the many who ran away in fear) from doing the same thing in the future. A called bluff and all that.
From what I have seen, these Iraqis were being taught a lesson and it is one they will not soon forget. But the reason for it remains a mystery.
Perhaps they were treated too harshly, perhaps not harshly enough.
Again, more information (perhaps the full version of the video) would be helpful.
I was, I must say, rather troubled by the apparent joy taken by the filmographer. Perhaps this is an indication of just how much these troublemakers (?) had it coming a couple of years ago.
Difficult to tell really, but interesting to watch.
i dont know what you have been blabbing about there by i mean leen tamim, firas and all te other bigotts talking here. ur talking as if you could change the world with your arguments. get a life and stop blabbing with ur mouths wide open. i dont like this website but always enter it to laugh about your so called "VAGUE ARGUMENTS" that is what you call it leen. who cares about you being a judge or you being a smartass (sorry haitham i just had to say it). i think you should go back to your occupation and worry about other stuff.
and firas just for your information i dont think you're funny at all in any way or another honestly so dont u try to avoid misunderstandings between u or leen cuz at the end ur not getting married here ;)and ace? who r u calling kids? dont u have a better argument to defend your pont of view. so as i said GET A LIFE GUYS ciao ciao asta la vista
the one who should be getting a life here is you tach my dear. its sad how you contradict yourself by saying that you hate or DONT LIKE this website and then end up entering it just to SUPPOSEDLY make fun of people like us. at least we got the taste for appologizing to each other or to avoid misunderstandings ( hereby i am speaking in the name of firas and me). oh and one more thing, talking about marriage, at least we get the chance to get married unlike some people like you for example who have nothing else to do than acting sarcastic and showing everyone how EASY LIFE IS because guess what?? its not…thats life FACE IT OR YOU`LL FAIL and to me it seems like you're failing.
SAY SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE OR DONT SAY IT AT ALL ;)
enjoy your time
Gandalf,
if you are really from The Lord of the Rings..you should know such despicable act is from the camp of Saruman..u must be suffering from amnesia to purport such an idea..it's a pity u are not a producer!
Ali says it's difficult to tell. I call BS; It's very easy to tell.
You could tell from the video that these were teenagers, you could tell from their cries. There is also the source's testimony that these were teenagers.
This "might not have been enough", right? The sergeant who kicked the victim in the balls, that might not have been enough punishment, right? But then again maybe this person has an advantage over us though, maybe he's seen a video of the trial that ensued prior to this beating in which these "Iraqi teenage criminals" were charged and found guilty and sentenced by a court to be head butted, punched, kicked around and all around and humiliated. I think whoever edited this tape, should have not edited out the proceedings of that trial, right?
There's also the kick to the face of the dead man. Is that also "might not be enough"? I already know the answer; "hard to tell".
I don't think Americans live by "hard to tell" policy you're electing. Otherwise they wouldn't have been dragged into war over a rumor that Iraq had WMD's and could launch them within 45 minutes.
Hamzeh N. has made a case for easy extrapolation.
But I'm afraid that's about it.
If it's trials that he's advocating here, why no call for such a trial prior to his condemnation of the liberating British forces?
Interesting…
Ali, well there's a big difference that I'm sure you already know. I'm just an accuser here, I'm accusing these soldiers of something which I believe there's very compelling evidence for, and I have every right to do that, just as your neighbor has the right to go file a complaint and accuse you of something that you say you didn't do. The soldiers on the other hand, they've played the role of the accuser, the judge and the executioner all at once.
"The soldiers on the other hand, they’ve played the role of the accuser, the judge and the executioner all at once."
It sounds, Hamzeh, as though you are the one playing the role of accuser and judge here yourself.
As for executioner, as that role is not an option to you, your unwillingless to play it is an unknown variable.
But, as you say, you have every right to make snap-judgements prior to gaining a fuller and more accurate picture if you wish to do so.
Who am I to judge?
Ok, lets cut the BS, shall we? You know and I know that people will cast their own judgements no matter what. If you're gonna call my opinion on this matter a judgement and compare me to a judge that found these soldiers guilty, then I can call your opinion the opposite judgement from a different judge. People will have opinions and will cast judgements no matter what, and they will even try their best to go as far as they can with executing on their opinions. I might be an example of that (just as you might be) by judging that these soldiers are guilty of brutality given the compelling evidence everyone has been presented with, and I might have shown that I'm willing to execute on that judgement to a certain extent (my abilities) by expressing it as my opinion and exposing the incident and trying to convince others of my opinion. But here's the thing:
this, me and you and what others might think or say about these soldiers and accuse them of doing doesn't amount to anything when you compare it to the results of the same process taking place in the mind of a soldier fully armed and ready to go.
I might have misjudged these soldiers, but none of them is going to die because I said this, none of them is going to even have a hair touched. Whereas due to the calls these soldiers made, we now have Iraqi's who were savagely beaten, some who were even killed and later humiliated in death.
So if you're gonna feel better defending these soldiers against my brutal and unfair accusations, help them save their ears from having to hear my hurtful words and the words of those who share my opinion, go ahead and do it, I in turn will try to feel better by speaking out in defense of actual lives, flesh and blood.
Hamzeh,
I have neither defended nor condemned either party here.
Also, I have gone out of my way to suggest that you are free to whatever manner of opinion you might have.
If that rises to your estimation of "BS" (an apparent favorite term of yours) then so be it.
This abbreviated video clip from a couple of years ago seems to have stirred some emotional responses (and not only from you) which I find both interesting and potentialy troubling.
One wonders about the timing of the release of this incomplete clip, just as one wonders about the timing of the concocted and orchestrated outrage surrounding a dozen months-old cartoons from, of all places, Denmark.
Convenient fuel for a convenient fire.
Could it be that the raging "puppets" simply don't recognize who their masters are in all this?
Pay no attention to the men behind the curtain and all that…
They were asking for a kicking and thats what they got
thank f**k it wernt saddam handing it out or none of the little ragheads would have gotten away
I think we've all been watching different videos. From what I saw, this is the military doing thier job. They were attacked by a mob throwing rocks and firebombs and reacted to disperse the crowd. It may seem a little brutal, but it is a war.
To count the number of times the person was hit is irrelevant. By all accounts, the youth was not seriously harmed and the crowd dispersed. Therefore the end in this case justified the means.
I think that most people who disagree with the occupation will find fault in any action taken by the military in Iraq. It all boils down to the fact that they should not be there.
Ali –
May I point out your repeated use of "a couple of years ago" about this 2 year old video? Is there a point in that? It seems that you are implying that it is an "old crime", and as such, maybe there's some statute of limitations on how we can judge its participants. That's rubbish.
Secondly, this crime, if it is proven to be one, as you so generously pointed out, but for the sake of argument, this crime was caught on video. A conclusion that will definitely be drawn is, "if this made it onto video, then what, in the past 3 years, has not?"
The funny thing, I mean the really hilariously laughable thing, is that anyone would tape such a thing as the British soldiers beating youths, or that American Soldiers would take photographs of their "funtime" at Abu Ghraib. It highlights the sheer stupidity and animalistic mindset of the soldiers. Even more laughable is that anyone, only given the recorded incidents, would seek to deny that such incidents are both real and not isolated to those that have been recorded.
A good illustration of this is from Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 911", showing an interview with an American soldier, no more than 20 years old, blasting "The roof is on fire" on his tank's stereo system while he murders.
All i could say is that, it kinda ironic at the same time stupid that nationalistic people can't accept the errors that one's own country or people does. goes to all countries that i know
i agree with you chris that is one of the things i always stress upon
Seriously. Hey guys, let's go throw some rocks at some fully armed soldiers who are high strung from dodging IED's and suicide bombers! What do you expect will happen? They are fortunate that they only got their asses kicked, and aren't lying dead in a gutter.
Every one of the iraqi basterds got what they deserved. they have been shooting at our soldiers, killing some of our civilians out in iraq. if they can't hack it, why were they there? they may have been kids but if we (Britain) let a few kids over rule us, what does that do to our reputation and respect. we havent been invaded for nearly 1000 years, we have some of the best soldiers in the world so there is no way that we are gonna let a few little kids in another country push us around. the day that happens, is the day that britain is destroyed, and that will not happen.
Pat,
You are clearly an idiot. Do you honestly think that your soldiers are heroes because they beat defenceless children? They are not heroes. They are stupid cowards who can't handle rocks being thrown at them.
Iraqis have been subjected to humiliation and abuse because your dependent on their oil. They have lost their loved ones, their homes — everything. No wonder they were angry. They were promised peace and liberation but you only made their lives more unbarable.
You think that you and your allies are better than Saddam but you fail to see that you are exactly like him.
People like you make me sick. People like you and your beloved soldiers are a disgrace to your country.
Britain is a country that, for the most part, is quite liberal and accepting of people of all cultures and religions.
The soldiers who committed this cowardly crime are undoubtedly only considered brave heroes by you alone and other likeminded individuals.
The majority of people around the world don't condone what these soldiers did, nor do they support the war in Iraq.
wow pat ur a dumbfuck, how bout u take ur british asses outta iraq u dumbass, britain used to treat ppl like this a few 100 yrs. ago when it had a lot of land, now ur on some shitty lil island going to foreign nations and beating up teens goodjob, if a brit form a few hundred yrs ago looked at the britain now they wouldve already seen that britian is destroyed from being a number 1 power to being just another country
I don't know for sure.. but I did hear that the boys that were beaten were throwing stones and anything they could find to prevent the rescue of some other soldiers who had been attacked by a roadside bomb. I don't agree with voilence, this is a rare case that I have seen. If you want to see ruthless voilence go to gorish.com and see the beheadings of innocents!!!
these iraqis deserved it they were hurling rocks and stuff at the soldiers and as soon as they get caught they cry just like all the scum in iraq all big and hard when they think they are untouchable but as soon as we get hold of them the shit themselves
oh :( is that how your security forces treat their fellow Brits if they throw stones on them… pooooor guys… heart breaking…
Damn, the brits army scum is nothing but occupation forces, and I won't feel sorry if I see them burning and cut into pieces in Iraq streets…
Get a life, brit!
Haitham,
I think that the Brit was out of line with his comments and excusing the actions of British forces. However, I also feel that you were out of line with your comments. You have to do better as we all respect that you are the originator of this blog. A higher standard has to be applied to you therefore. Hate does not improve anything nor does it change any minds.
Hate? What? Occupation forces? Give me a break Robert… I love them.
Get real man. I understand that you might see this as hate because part of the occupation forces are from your country, but I'm sorry to tell you that I feel no sympathy to occupation forces and will be happy to see them dying in the streets.
When your country is occupied, you will know what it feels like!
Haitham,
I happen to agree with you that our forces are occupiers. No, I would not like it if another country's army occupied my country. All I was saying was that it surprised me that you were demonstrating vitriol and wishing death on the Brits or anyone for that matter. I think and presumed that you believed that wishing death on anyone is immoral. That is all. Perhaps I was wrong and gave you too much credit. I personally don't wish death on anybody but I can understand the sentiment. Those forces are not occupying your country Haitham are they?
Robert,
???? ????? ?????? ….. ?? ????? ????????
??? ??? ??? ???? ….. ??? ??? ???????
??? ??? ??????? ….. ??? ??? ?????
This is a poem that every Arab knows by heart. We learn it in our schools from our early days, and most Arab citizens (if not all) believes in.
In short it says that "All Arab countries are my country."
So, to answer your question, yes, Iraq is my country, I am Arab, and the West hate Arab, not only Iraqis, not only Saudi, not only Egyptians, etc…
OTOH, hate Hitler and wish he die? Oh… millions felt that way in the past and some people still hate him.
Hate US and Brits occupation and wish they die? Oh… billions does and will always do!
"I am Arab, and the West hate Arab"
Haitham, is this not the very sort of oversimplified hyperbole that you have condemned in the past?
I would suggest to you that "The West" cannot be categorized in this simplistic way any more that can any group.
Haitham,
I understand now why you said that we were occupying your country. Point well taken. I totally agree with Ali. You cannot assusme that because some politicians make some erroneous decisions that all westerners hate Arabs and Muslims. Perhaps you make us your hated enemy because we support Israel. Not all westerners agree with that concept or hate Arabs. I personally am a westerner and do not hate you. We have to be more tolerant. I understand why you might feel so angry with the west and its policies but please be more open-minded. Not all westerners hate Arabs since we don't know all of you. I suggest we do as Martin Luther King Jr. suggested-judge others by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin.
Haitham,
To hate is to descend below the level of the beast. Surely you are better than that. Even if Billions of Arabs hate the west that does not mean you have to. It is beneath you to spew such venom. I am sure that your Muslim faith does not support hatred of others. You can hate their actions but not the person. It is very unhealthy. Peace.
Robert, all,
Please read this old post:
http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2005/04/22/the-real-reason-they-hate-us/
I'm sure it will answer some of your questions.
Haitham,
I read it (but not the comments). I am currently having an epiphany of a sort. I know the players, I know their desires, but somewhere I swear to God I did NOT see the connection between Zionism and the Neocon agenda as you have pointed out. Again, I know the players, Wolfowitz, Pearl, among others. But are you saying that our present "neocon" agenda is a disquise for the ultimate goals of the Zionists? Let me qualify my question by saying I always sort of thought of the two as having a relationship sort of like Spain and the Catholic church. Are you saying, that in your opinion they are using eachother (Zionists and Neocons) OR that Neocon agenda IS Zionism.? Hope you don't mind the question but like I said, I'm on the brink of an epiphany.
Shukran
so what would you have the british soldiers do? shoot them on sight? take them to trial? you forget a beating, whether in a bar or by foriegn soldiers is a beating. did these iraqi looters go to trial? if you had to go to jail for 5 years or take a beating what would you do? I know what id do, and im sure it would make me think twice about looting in the future just as much as a 5 year jail sentance.
You don't get a sentece of five years for looting, and this crime certainly does not give the British the right to act inappropriately as they did. In fact they have no right at all to abuse people, as there have been many reported cases. How many go unreported?
Furthermore, why are the British there in the first place. Are they there to fight the "extemeists" as they claim, or are they there to beat up kids over cases like this one?
Haditha
http://www.lewrockwell.com/kwiatkowski/kwiatkowski153.html
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m23611&l=i&size=1&hd=0
http://mathaba.net/0_index.shtml?x=537902
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,19288510-2703,00.html
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0605/S00452.htm
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=15archive/&entry_id=5626
http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=11335
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1785277,00.html
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/article621253.ece
Ali's point is excellent, though. Admit it. There is a rush to judgment regarding what happened on the video, yet no one really knows what truly transpired. Any judgment, for or against, can only be based upon the preconceived ideas of the viewer. That is all too clear. Thus, the video — while perhaps necessitating further investigation — is in and of itself insignificant. This may sound cold, but it's the truth.
Now, if the general take on this video is correct — does that make the coalition forces terrorists? No. If excessive force was used, then it makes this group of soldiers guilty of war crimes. That is no small matter, but it does not indict Bush nor Blair. Any such conclusion is, frankly, silly.
Another point: referring to teens as defenseless children is really disingenuous. I'm 33, and in fairly good shape, yet I would likely get my ass soundly kicked by an equally fit 17-year-old. Calling them children is an emotional appeal, not an intellectual one.
Rachel, you are a very bad person, because you suggested that easterners do bad things. Any beheading of innocents is actually westerners or zionists in costumes. Don't you know that? The people doing the beheadings are the same people who REALLY attacked US targets on 9/11. Or perhaps I am just making a point…
Raymond, you are referencing Michael Moore as a reliable source? Raymond, Raymond, "Everybody Loves" Raymond…you know better, bud! We have discussed the dangers of propaganda, and…well…Michael Moore spews propaganda even when just ordering a bag of Chicken McNuggets (Super Sized, of course!).
All in all, we have here a video — edited as it is — that brings to mind questions, but not answers. A good example is the Rodney King video that caused such an uproar in the US years ago. What the edited version showed was, in essence, a bunch of policemen beating a black man. What the unedited version showed was a very large man, under the influence, leap out of his car, knocking at least one officer down, and proceeding to lunge at others who naturally responded with nightsticks. When they would follow protocol and cease to swing the sticks, he would lunge again. In the end (forgive me if not every detail here is precise), one officer was shown to have swung 3-4 times too many after King was apparently subdued. The officer was convicted for that. The other officers were acquitted, and a mob of citizens of south central Los Angeles rioted in anger over the verdict, burning down their own neighborhoods and attacking anyone who was not black. Anyhow, the facts shown by the full version TOTALLY changed the meaning of the short version. Unfortunately, the facts became irrelevant, in a sense, as enough emotions had flared up to result in the aforementioned rioting and burning. All of this occurred, not because a man was beaten by police, but because an emotionally-charged lie based on a well-edited videotape became fact in the minds of thousands of people who perceived that they were being oppressed.
Proceed with caution…and sobriety.
Haditha
Philip,
I suspect that if you had the misfortune of being born under a different flag, in Afghanistan or Iraq, for example, you would have a slightly different perspective on the world. And you might be amongst one of the "thousands of people who perceived that they were being oppressed." And you might not appreciate that American President, this cabinet's policies, or those of his predecessors. You might take to the streets and break a few things. Rest assured, the US military would be there to greet you with raised batons and bayonets. Your blood would spill, a soldier having done his or her duty to "spread democracy." Tomorrow the sun would rise from Bangor, Maine, to Fairbanks, Alaska, and noone there would know your name, noone would mourn your passing. You would cease to matter in that nation, as you have always ceased to matter, as your family and friends will continue to cease mattering.
But that's okay. The US will have won their crude. They will have won new markets for Coca-Cola and Calvin Klein, contracts for Halliburton and Lockheed-Martin. They will have cut trade routes between China and the rest of the world. The will have earned another day of flag-flying over their imperial empire. What else matters?
Raymond,
Perhaps I would believe that if I were not born American. But then, that wouldn't make me right by default, either.
Perhaps if I were black, I would have fallen for the trickery in the whole Rodney King event. Perhaps I would have set fire to my own neighborhood.
Perhaps if I were a Christian, I would believe that there was a grand Muslim conspiracy to take over the world and massacre all non-Muslims…
Wait…
Something just isn't right here…
Hell, if I was an Afghan I might have even shaved my beard!
You hit the nail on the head. You are not right by default.
Philip,
"Perhaps I would believe that if I were not born American. But then, that wouldn’t make me right by default, either."
Neither does YOUR default birth make you right.
"Perhaps if I were a Christian, I would believe that there was a grand Muslim conspiracy to take over the world and massacre all non-Muslims…" Wait a minute, something isn't right here, somewhere here you stated you ARE a fundamentalist Christian.
Do you want to learn something here from your experience or not?
You know that old saying, "Walk a mile in another man's shoes"?
Well, since we are discussing problems in the Middle East maybe you could benefit by humbling yourself for a few moments and just think about a day in the life of a Palestinian or Iraqi, both people who are suffering from our policies. Are they any less humans than you? L-I-S-T-E-N
Haditha.
You do not know what is right or good for the Iraqi teenagers beaten in the video. Nor did the British soldiers who beat them. Nor do I.
The systematic impoverishment of the African Americans had as much to do with the LA riots as the attitudes of the LA police who beat King did.
Excessive use of force has as little validity in either scenario as the scenarios themselves. Oppression has many faces, and has unfortunately become the legacy of the US, UK and other colonising empires.
To punish the victims of oppression for their rise against it is especially hypocritical, given the fact that the US claims to have been founded on revolution against oppression. (This setting aside the fact that the US, after it won independence from Britain, has been built on the back of slavery, segregation and indentured servitude, bigotry, racism, prejudice, and massacre and oppression of its native populations.)
HELLO Philip and Jimmy,
H-A-D-I-T-H-A
I am feeling ignored ):
That's a :( above
Robin,
That's my point! I am a Christian (although the term "fundamentalist" has baggage that I prefer not to carry; just click my name and see the website I produce), yet I do not believe what many in certain segments believe. That is, being a Christian does not mean I have to believe everyone is out to get me, even when there is so much "proof" that it's true.
I was actually stating, too, that we are all in the same boat in one sense. Being American does not make me right; it does not make me wrong, either. Being a non-American Arab does not make someone wrong or right by default, not Israeli Jew, nor an Iranian Christian. But we all have certain things that, when effectively framed, will get us in a tizzy when there just may be something else going on.
That's the thing. Ali, who is not American, simply was saying that the video is inconclusive and should be seen as such. He is right.
By the way, what is Haditha?
What is Haditha? As my teenage daughter would say, ARRRRRRRE you kidding me? http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/721882.html
This is the only thing all over the news (except for congressional breakin stuff) for the last 48 hours. Read here also Time's four page article http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1174649-2,00.html
Philip, also reference my NINE links I provided you yesterday. Makes me think you're not L-I-S-T-E-N-I-N-G. :(
I just checked up on Haditha. I had heard the story, but somehow never caught the name. To make a blanket indictment of all armed forces based on this incident, though, is patently unfair. And if the allegations are true (and notice that Pre. Bush has guaranteed a speedy investigation likely with conclusions within the month of June and full disclosure), it is expected that they will face murder charges. Most soldiers are not like this. I watch over and over again celebrations of soldiers returning home locally, and these guys (some injured, some not) all are broken up in tears over what good they have seen done and taken part in, often recounting stories of gratitude from the people around them. These are not public relations specialists; they are 19-year-olds, 25-year-olds, regular Joes telling their stories. Every one of them said they would either request to return after some time back with their families or wish their injuries did not disqualify them from service. These are the rule; those in Haditha are the exception. In any war situation, bad apples will do bad things. And, IMHO, those bad apples should be crushed and discarded.
As for the 9 other links, I'll do my best (although Information Clearing House I am familiar with, and I would trust Bill Clinton with my teenage daughter before I would rely on them for factual information), but I am a busy man…too busy to be doing all this posting! :) I can't help it, though. Admit it…y'all MUST like having some opposing viewpoints here, if only to sharpen your arguments ("Everybody Loves" Raymond actually expressed this, and I accept his full gratitude ;) ). But I am building a business and being a daddy and hubby and all the more important things in life, so I may have to remain brainwashed by the neocons and zionists and the little green men for a while longer. Hey, speaking of Raymond…
Raymond,
"The systematic impoverishment of the African Americans…?" The ever accursed and probably demon-possessed US Secretary of State is one of these systematically impoverished people. And she even comes from the heavily racist, bigoted Southern US. Oh wait, or is that just stereotyping and propaganda about both the Southern US and the US as a whole? Yep. The US's past errors like slavery and such are not unique to the west. Obviously not, because slaves were purchased by (Northern) US merchants from African slave owners. This does not justify the crime; it simply shows there is enough blame to go around. Slavery is still practiced by Muslims in Mauritania and Sudan. Should this indict all Muslims? Slavery was ended in the Muslim world by European "imperialist" instead of by the Muslims themselves. Yet how many times have I said that the ISlamic empire was built on the backs of slaves? As for the native population, I am one of those (in part).
The LA riots were caused by deliberate skewing of the truth by repeatedly broadcasting a very effectively edited videotape. I have seen the whole thing. The excessive force barely existed, and the officer guilty of it was convicted, yet because the lie was built in to the minds of people already living with a victim mindset and surrounded by a criminal element that causes such intense police scrutiny (sounds a lot like Iraq, in a way), everything erupted into mindless destruction. I bet you never even knew that the Rodney King tape had anything other than the 20-30 seconds commonly seen.
Sorry for bothering you again, but please note the following article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/26/AR2006052602069.html
"The 24 Iraqi civilians killed on Nov. 19 included children and the women who were trying to shield them, witnesses told a Washington Post special correspondent in Haditha this week and U.S. investigators said in Washington. The girls killed inside Khafif's house were ages 14, 10, 5, 3 and 1, according to death certificates."
The beatings which are the topic of this link are but a very tiny tip of this iceberg. If you have the stomach to see these pictures of our occupation there, please link to http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm
And for all who read here, this is a photographic video of the occupation in Iraq that can only be met with horrific emotions by the viewer: http://www.vivairaq.com/
My heart is poored out and I am left with emptiness and shame.
God save the Iraqi people from America's cruelty.
Like I said, the guilty parties should be tried for murder and receive the full penalty of law, that being death. As for the other 2 sites, I looked at both, and the images are horrible, undeniably (well, except the images of pat downs and pridoner guarding). But again, my question is this: Is it the US, or is the people who purposefully continue the violence who are the real bad guys here? Can anyone verify that all of these injuries are from US weapons? Or does it matter, because the US is automatically the evil one? The irony here is that US troops would be gone, the only ones remaining being military training personnel and a few lingering fill-in security forces. But the insurgents and the terrorists are happy to keep the bombs blasting and the bullets flying. Sorry, but I blame them. They are the ones who don't want Iraqis choosing their own leaders, their own faith, their own future…not the US.
Philip,
WHO THE HECK STARTED THIS MESS? George Bush, "Bring 'em on", "We're going to fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here", "Mission accomplished!" You say you're a 33 year old healthy young man. Why not enlist? Go see the world and GET A CLUE!! And by the way, watch the damn video. Sweet dreams. I am done, done, done arguing with you.
Sorry Haitham, no one angers me more than my fellow countrymen.
Fair enough. I'm not trying to get anybody worked up here, just stating a point of view which is apparently intolerable. "Who started it" is an age old battle that will rage on in every conflict, so I will be courteous enough not to respond to the arguments made. I have stated my case and am satisfied that I did so effectively. Last word is yours, and I wish you well!
By the April 7,2003 (20 days into the attack) 4338 Iraqi civilians were dead due to US bombing http://iraqbodycount.net/database/bodycount72.php?ts=1149139949
These figures are taken from actual body counts of those dead found or who died in Iraqi hospitals. The total dead on 9/11
was 2976. The United States reacted to the terrorist bombings with overwhelming firepower in both Afghanistan and Iraq (though Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11) We take "democracy" in the pockets of our 19-25 year old service men to deliver to Iraq, a country that did not attack us, did not have wmd's (NONE ABSOLUTELY NONE have been found), and did not pose a threat to us. After years of sanctions, and the hardships of those sanctions, my country chose to ignore the UN and mount an attack upon an innocent population. Is not the life of an Iraqi every bit as precious as an American life? There are various statistics put forth concerning the total dead, currently according to http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ is a minimum of 38,059 and a maximum of 42,434. Another study done by the British Lancet estimates well over 100,000 as of 2004. The rate of malnutrition in children has soared to twice as much prior to the occupation. Unemployment has skyrocketed since the occupation while our government pays Halliburton, Brown and Root and private US security and construction companies putting wages that many Iraqis could be earning back into our own hands. Critical infrastructure has still not been replaced while daily electricity rationing is still in place three years after the "liberation". Daily life poses a risk to every citizen. There HAVE been elections. Yesterday the prime minister accused the US military of the death of his neice in an incident similar to the one reported in Haditha (indeed it was Haditha, but a separate incident). Why is it that I, a 52 year old house wife living in Southern California who lived in the Mideast for five years take my PERSONAL experience and predict from the beginning that a US invasion of Iraq would be a disaster? It's because some of us who care to L-I-S-T-E-N know more than any one in this neocon administration ever cared to know. I offer two tried and true axioms: "Know your enemy" and "If you break it you own it". GWB and his cohorts neither took the time to assess the possibilities or L-I-S-T-E-N to any one other than themselves. They took my country down a road of ruin and now "own" the problem of Iraq. If we had not invaded, this would not have happened, can I make myself anymore clear? If we had not invaded there would not be a civil war there now. Pictures of Abu Gharib, thousands dead, Haditha, incompetance, ignorance, these are all "owned" by the US. If anyone were to ask me what I would do to fix it my reply would be, honestly, from the bottom of my heart I do not know. It all depends on what our government is willing to sacrifice, either the astronomical cost of getting the job done right (if that is even possible) or the humiliation of admitting we were wrong. What can we possible do to atone for our mistake. Can we give back all the lost Iraqi lifes? We can all dispute and argue the merits of either choice, but I suggest that more of the same is NOT a choice. How long can this go on? How many more innocent Iraqis will die at our hands or the hands of the insurgents who have been granted power by our incompetance. God help us all. This is the greatest injustice my country has ever perpetrated. I don't pretend to know everything, but this I do know, my country made a mistake and for this we are judged.
Philip-
Everybody loves Raymond? Very original.
You cannot so easily dismiss the fact that the US unilaterally decided to attack Iraq. And these "bad seeds", these 18-25 year olds are trained killers. For every Haditha that comes to light, there are surely at least 10 that we will never hear of.
Your Christian ethics are selective, condoning murder on the one hand, abhorring it on the other. Doesn't sound too Christian to me.
And who cares if Condoleeza Rice is African American? She is a tool of the state, a face that says "We're not racist" while the reality of the majority of African Americans speaks differently.
And Clinton moving his office into Harlem, and popular culture embracing rap and hip-hop doesn't change anything. The racist and bigoted hate groups are still protected under the first amendment. What a farce.
And here's a train of thought that I find doesn't swim.
"The US’s past errors like slavery and such are not unique to the west." Well, everyone else was doing it, so why are you blaming me? Please think that one through. The Zionists like to divert attention away from their crimes in a very similar fashion, stating that Arab countries expulsed the Jews after the Jews expulsed the Palestinians, and the French did it to the Algerians, and the Turkish did it to the Armenians, and everyone is killing everyone, so why are you pointing at us? Oppression and genocide can never be condoned, regardless of what good company you are in. Full stop.
As for the Native Americans, shame on you for claiming heritage and brushing off their ongoing oppression. That they were, and still are, kept on reservations is horrendous enough. Their livelihoods were stolen from them and replaced with alcohol and gambling. Fine trade, that.
http://www.indiancountry.com/content.cfm?id=1096413009
You make too many exceptions in order to condone your capitalist lifestyle. This is the problem with Americans, generally speaking. They claim to be better and more ethical than everyone else, while turning a blind eye to the atrocities that must be committed to keep them on top.
From a self-described "Neurotic Iraqi Housewife's" blog:
"I went to work late today, and as I was saying hello to Dr A, HUBBY told me that Dr A was about to get blown up because of us…I was shocked and said how???Apparantely Dr A wanted to get an Iraqi sweet called Min Il Sima (literally translates into from the sky)…Its a very well known sweet here and very yummy…The best known place that sells it is a shop called Al Khasaki…which unfortunately got blown up….Why did it get blown up, nobody knows…The so called insurgents target everything that is successful, everything that brings joy to the Iraqis….They know no mercy…They want Iraq to fail….They blow up water pipes, they blow up generators…For Gods Sake they started putting bombs in dead bodies and detonate them…They are criminals and I pray that they will burn in hell…."
There is more than one side, my friends. This is one tiny excerpt from a plethora of Iraqi blogs.
Philip has done some very selective pickin' of the Neurotic Iraqi Housewife blog. Here's just something I came across among a host of other entries on this blog:
"And what did Bush and Blare give us to ease the daily hell?
The occupation forces riding on tanks?
And now, with every step full of Iraqi blood-shed, while we want to build a better future for us and our children, Bush and Blare come along to invest in the Iraqis' anguish, saying with all insolence: I was right when I decided on the war against Iraq.
Have you seen the Iraqis happily picking flowers, you fool, and came to boast that you are the donator of this achievement?
The Iraqis now are blinded by pain and sadness; they want to get out of the war's calamity, and what negative aspects it exuded to the society, and to the country's future. Iraq now is but a heap of rubble, a ruin. We want to know where to start? Thousands of complicated problems need solving in Iraq.
We need time, efforts, and money to repair the dumb calamities that Bush and Blare are responsible for" For more like this entry log onto the blog here: http://afamilyinbaghdad.blogspot.com/
What Philip also failed to notice is that there are four contributors on this blog besides the owner. Faiza, an engineer and one of the most prominent contributors was here in the US with guess who?
CINDY SHEEHAN!!!!!!!! There are also letters from Code Pink to the blog, apparently they are close friends.
You see Philip, you are once again, not L-I-S-T-E-N-I-N-G
You see only what you want to see and are not willing to look beyond your tunnel-visioned God Bless America ruler of the free world attitude. Sigh Sigh Sigh, you could be learning so much rather than lecturing all of us that we are wrong in the beliefs we base on fact. Yes there are always two sides to the story, the Iraqis that are cooperating with the occupation are called "half sleeves" 87% of the Iraqi population say they want our forces out and that we should have NEVER COME IN THE FIRST PLACE. You see, no matter which way you cut it, the Iraqis overwhelmingly blame the US for this disaster for UNLEASHING THE INSUGENTS AND NOT BRINGING PEACE TO THEIR COUNTRY. So even if the majority of violence now is done by the insurgents as opposed to US bombing, the fact remains, the US broke it and the US owns it. Maybe Philip you would do well to do a community service gig
of some sort in this country that our country blew to smithereens. And if that's not possible, maybe you could explain to us what we should do now.
I made a technical mistake in my above post. The quote and link I gave was from the #1 link on the Neurotic Iraqi Housewife site, but if you check you will see they go back and forth with each other. But just in case you miss some more of the above quote by Philip, here's some more: "I am leaving here with very little hope, close to none, but its there…Maybe more of a dream than hope…This is probably my last post ever from Baghdad…Im gonna miss it, miss everyone I met…But I know that one day I will be able to tell my kids and my grandkids all about this place…And maybe just maybe they will get to see the Baghdad, the Iraq we all envision…" No one ever said here that the insurgents are not reeking havoc in Iraq, except our own government who has said over and over that we are seeing the "tail end of the insurgency"
(Rumsfield). No fewer than eight generals have called for his resignation for mishandling of the war and failing to secure Iraq. Good news, the Pentagon announced today that all troops in Iraq will now be given training in how to handle situations better after the Haditha massacre. GLORY BE. Wasn't the same said after Abu Gharib. WE BROKE IT WE OWN IT! If any fool still holds onto the belief that this was a noble venture, they can keep their "noble ideas" but admit that it was not a feasible plan in the first place. Not ALL noble ideas (although I don't buy into the noble idea theory) are doable, pure and simple. We BROKE IT WE OWN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, just throwing another spice in the mix. I have read many others, some for, some against. I just see a lot of reluctance here to accept voices from Iraq that don't see things the same as the majority view here (shame on them for not hating the US!). The quote I used was less than selective (although I purposefully used a positive one; otherwise I would be contributing little in the marketplace of ideas); it was the last thing I had read in the hour or so of blog skimming. I particularly enjoyed a Kurd who said he was sick of conspiracy theories and gets looked at like he has two heads when he doesn't believe them! Again, I am simply offering a snippet of an alternative viewpoint. If it is not welcome here, then I will leave it alone for now.
Oh, Raymond…the "Everybody Loves" thing is not meant to be insulting, but jovial! For some reason, my stupid head keeps getting the idea I'm responding to Ray Romano, so I couldn't resist. It was all in good fun. I was going to call Robin "Rockin' Robin" based on her lyric parodies, but methinks I'd better lay low for a while.
Philip,
If you can do this (I am speaking sincerely). Take a very deep breath and let it go. As your breath goes out, let all or your notions about Iraq flow free. Now imagine you are in Iraq, you are an Iraqi, not an American, now watch this http://www.vivairaq.com/
Please let it sink in before you reply.
I have just watched the video on the other thread, "Iraq, a Woman's Story" I had to pause it several times because I could not stand to see it. Here in the States we are led to believe that it is only the insurgents blowing things up. Please watch this video to see the devastation that our military is reeking on Iraq. Remember, "we're going to fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here" Now that we have invited them to the tea party and swolen their ranks by our mere presence we have destroyed innocent lifes in the way. Don't you see Philip that we created a monster by our invasion? No matter how bad Saddam was (take your choice of degrees of evil) nothing, absolutely NOTHING was as bad under his rule as it is now. GB swatted at a beehive and now it is the Iraqi people paying the price. What the hell are we supposed to do now that we have destroyed their country? Can we leave and let the radicals that we have unleashed take over or can we stay, with ten times the man power? This is NEVER going to work, and it would have never worked from the very first inkling of the "noble deed" to overthrow Saddam. Furthermore, this plan had been in the making for years, formerly since 1997 when the Project for a New American Century, PNAC, proposed it, LONG before 9/11 which was the excuse given to the American people (Saddam's supposed wmd's and connections to Al Queada.) I am honestly, physically getting tired of this debate because it is so futile when you will not face the facts of what we have done to the Iraqi people.
Robin,
Philip's mind is made up. It's not worth an aneurism. ;)
Raymond is correct. I've seen tons of information from every sides, and I have come to different conclusions. I have put myself in Iraqis' shoes, Iranians' shoes, Kurd shoes, Christian Iraqi shoes, and every other kind of shoes there are. I have read stuff from the wacky to the sensible to the highly emotional to the highly analytical. I've digested it all, and I have come to where I am now. Since it is clearly a minority viewpoint on this blog, I decided it was nearly necessary to include. I'll leave it at this: I agree with y'all in that I want the US troops to leave soon, and I want Iraqis to live without fear of violence. And on that point, aI bid adieu for now!
I'd appreciate discussing the "The Women's Story" over at the post thread so that others can follow the discussion.
Sorry Haitham, I am so frustrated and I wanted to get Philip over there to watch it by bringing it up. Raymond's right, I'm going to have an aneurism. There's a movie called "Pay it Forward" about a little boy who does one good deed and asks that person to then do a good deed who is then supposed to ask each person to do a good deed. If it is possible to change one American's viewpoint so that they might talk to someone else who might talk to someone else maybe we can change what is going on here in the States which is reeking problems allover the Mideast and other places. My country is WRONG and I'm feeling overwhelmed by all I see. Apologies.
Philip,
You are either the Imelda Marcos of cultural sensitivity or have the quickest grasp of a situation with which you have absolutely no personal experience communicating via the internet from your comfortable home in Florida. I'm amazed at your grasp of the situation, because we all know that Imelda wasn't a very nice lady.
this is an eye for an eye.nothing wrong with us giving a little back to these worthless, flea infested wastes of life. dirty disgusting sub-humans, this was mercy to what we should be doing to them. should be exterminated, whole race.I applaud the british and americans and any body else who puts hands to these rats.
You never here anything, or see any videos degrading these fucking animals killing americans or decapitating americans and these carbombings. You hear and see videos but you dont see outrage about it but from the soldiers and americans. British beat some worthless kids and suddenely this is the worst thing ever. These are the lowest form of life on the planet right along side with the aficans and jews and should be treated so. Fuck all you fucking terrorist and fucking muslim rats.
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