Breeding Extremism
Written by Haitham Sabbah on 15. March 2006, 2140hrs // Part of Haitham Sabbah's adventure in Human Rights, Islam, Politics, Religion, Terrorism, War // Other posts by Haitham Sabbah
Today is the time to ask the moderate non-Muslims to please stand up and let themselves be counted.
“I don’t mean to sound harsh or anything but I don’t like what the Muslim people believe in, according to the Koran. Because I think they preach hate.”
This is what one of the many ordinary Americans interviewed by the Washington Post said as a part of a joint Washington Post-ABC News poll about the image of Islam and Muslims in America.
This growing anti-Muslim, anti-Islam sentiment is not just restricted to the US. A similar poll conducted by officials in the UK earlier in 2002, the results were confirmed 2 years later in the findings of a national commission into Islam in Britain that found that the aftermath of 9/11 had certainly made life more difficult for Muslims, and that “persistent and un-tackled Islamophobia in the UK could lead to ‘time-bombs’ of backlash and bitterness”.
Right here at my blog, many comments actually declared Islam a “fundamentally incorrect” religion, not only this, they actually suggested all religions were “irrational”, “brainwashed” people, followers of a “murderer” Prophet, “an evil religion”, etc..
Then we also have people like Daniel Pipes, who label all individual Islamists as being part of “a totalitarian movement“, adding that they must be “considered potential killers“. Yet despite this he dismisses Islamophobia as a “baseless” phenomenon. What’s more, he even has advice for us; “instead of presenting themselves as victims” he argues “Muslims should address this fear by developing a moderate, modern, and good-neighbourly version of Islam that rejects radical Islam, jihad, and the subordination of “infidels”.
This fits Stephen Schwartz’ definition of Islamophobia as “the condemnation of the entirety of Islam and its history as extremist, denying the existence of a moderate Muslim majority, regarding Islam as a problem for the world, treating conflicts involving Muslims as necessarily their own fault, insisting that Muslims make changes to their religion, and inciting war against Islam as a whole” just about perfectly, doesn’t it?
Ironic, isn’t it, that despite the extreme nature of some of these comments, it will always be Islam at the end of the day that will be seen as the villain in the eyes of the majority. It never crosses most people’s mind that declaring Islam as a fundamentally incorrect, evil religion is just about as extreme and radical as al-Qaeda urging all Muslims to do Jihad against America.
What the al-Qaeda and other anti-West, anti-American voices do is forget, and very conveniently, that you cannot put a same marker around what is a very large group of people, because for every Daniel Pipes out there, there is sure to be a Juan Cole as well.
Is it really that hard to see how indiscriminate hatred for any faith or its followers is much more likely to entice yet more response from the extremists than it is to encourage the moderate ones to come out and make them selves counted? What good does breeding hate achieve any way?
Worse when hate voices comes from within the Arab world (this one from Syria). Look at this example (Hat tip: Sean):
She’s no longer a Muslim, has never connected with progressive Islamic groups and does not know the writings of Islam’s most respected voices of reform.
So why is Wafa Sultan, a 47-year-old Southern California woman, suddenly in the news as a fresh voice of reason and reform about Islam?
In a blunt interview on Al Jazeera television last month, Sultan harshly criticized Islam as violent and unfavorably compared Muslims with Jews.
In remarks Sunday at her Corona home, Sultan, who said she left the faith after witnessing an act of religious extremism, went even further, saying Islam was beyond repair with teachings that exhorted Muslims to kill non-Muslims, subjugate women and disregard human rights.
…
Sultan’s Al Jazeera remarks have been widely circulated by such groups as the Middle East Media Research Institute, a Washington-based translation service founded by a former Israeli colonel, and the American Jewish Congress. She made the New York Times front page and is being plied with interview requests from CNN, Fox, “Good Morning America” and public radio. Her e-mail in-box is filled with messages from well-wishers around the world - mostly non-Muslims - praising her “courage,” offering donations and pitching proposals to make a documentary about her life.
What makes people think that blaming Islam as being the real reason will stop the extremists? It riles them further if anything, and if anything it unsettles even the moderate Muslims. A while back, I was asked, “Will the moderate Muslims please stand up and make themselves counted?” Perhaps today is the time to ask the moderate non-Muslims to please stand up and let themselves be counted.
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March 15th, 2006 at 10:12 pm
As a moderate individual, I would suggest that these results are in line with the fact that Moslem nations have allowed the likes of Ussama Bin Laden act as their spokesman in the West for years now.
Instead of taking to the streets to protest the actions of Islamo-terrorists, thousands have decided to shout “Death to America” while setting fire to American flags.
All the while, children are being named after noted terrorists.
The religious leaders of these nations have remained mute about (or worse, have endorsed) terrorism in the name of Islam for far too long to now complain about not having a favorable image in the West.
What has been sewn is now being reaped, I’m afraid.
Reputations are earned, not gifted.
March 15th, 2006 at 11:11 pm
After reading a biography of the life of Mohammed written by a professor from Al Azhar University in Cairo, and understanding the differentiation between Meccan and Medinan Qu’ranic verses, it is difficult to understand how followers of Islam can claim that Islam is a religion of peace. The life of Mohammed is a poor model of a religion founded on peace. Many moderate Muslims claim that Islam is a religion of peace. I wonder if this is true, or a more accurate claim would be that some of the followers of Islam are people of peace, and that they only ascribe to the peaceful aspects of their religion, as those tenants are the ones they most wholly agree with. Perhaps it is the people who are peaceful, and not the religion, for even the founder of Islam was guilty of countless atrocities.
March 15th, 2006 at 11:31 pm
I think that the outcome of this survey is really good, considering the political events in the past 20 years, and the fact that there is lots of hatred in the USA. I think americans are by faaaaaaar better than europeans when it comes to the views about islam and muslims.
March 16th, 2006 at 1:40 am
Haitham wrote:
You yourself said that you can’t place the same marker around a large group of people yet you then go on to put your own marker, ‘Islam’, around the very same group. The extremists that you warn against characterize Islam as violent and you say it isn’t so but there is no single definition of Islam. Lots of groups claim to practice ‘Islam’ some are quite violent others are not. Yet they all claim to speak for ‘Islam’. Right now it is the radical Jihadists who are seen as the villain. To the extent that ‘moderate Muslims’, ‘peaceful Islamists’, or ‘anti-Jihadists’ are unwilling or unable to neutralize or eliminate that villainous minority, non-Muslims will have a hard time figuring out who belongs to which group.
March 16th, 2006 at 3:59 am
Another booh hooh blog entry about how misunderstood Muslims are
Seriously, who gives a shit about how many moderate Muslims there are? Moderate Muslims are completely useless as partners to deescalate the conflict between the Muslim world and the Western world.
Face the facts, Islam IS seen as a violent religion by a lot of people in the West, but instead of just crying over it you (as in ALL Muslims who think that Islam has any value as a religion whatsoever) should do something about it. Stop being a bunch of whining wimps. DO SOMETHING!
It is not the West that is ruining ‘the good name’ of Islam, it is the Muslim moderates themselves, because they are just sitting on their asses and letting Islam be desecrated by the Muslim extremist minority.
Personally, I have nothing against Islam, but I have something against a majority of Muslims (both extremists and the silent majority) and it has only grown by visiting this blog. The “a Muslim should not criticize a Muslim” just doesn’t fly. This is a taboo that you MUST break if you want respect, because RESPECT IS SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO EARN and not something you can just ask for or demand.
Fine, let’s do some counting! If you analyze all the posts on this site you will easily find Muslim contributors saying “I don’t agree with Muslim extremists”, but you will find next to none saying “I am actually doing something to stop Muslim extremism”.
There is a huge, enormous, monumental difference between saying “I don’t agree with racism” into empty space and saying “Jack, I don’t agree with your racistic views because they represent a primitive view on other people” directly to a person (if there is a Jack on this blog: Sorry, your name is an example).
The only vocal Muslim criticism of another Muslim I can find is centered around judging the corrupt personality of Osama bin Ladens’ niece based on her looks, but I guess that is because she is not a ‘real’ Muslim since she has become a bit ‘too Western’. How tolerant an impression do you think that makes?
The numbers of moderate Muslims or moderate Westerners are irrelevant; it is the number of progressive Westerners and progressive Muslims that count. Sorry to break it to you, but progressive Muslims come in such small numbers that it is like looking for a needle in a haystack if you want to find one. Please note, I am not talking about Progressives as in politics, but about progressives who seek to move things forward.
It is Muslims who have created the catch-22, because they will not criticize Muslim racism and intolerance, but when the West criticizes Muslim racism and intolerance then it is the West that is racistic and intolerant!
In my opinion, this blog is more of a virtual Wailing Wall where Muslims can cry over how misunderstood they are rather than a discussion forum about how to change the negative perception of Islam that is promoted by Muslim extremists and supported by moderate Muslims. Inaction is also a form of action!
If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem!
…
By the way, here are the results of some counting done in Denmark.
“Are the Imams most frequently shown on Danish TV representative of Muslims in Denmark?” 75% of Danes say NO.
“Do you agree with burning Danish flags and destroying Danish embassies in the Middle East?” 11% of Danish Muslims say YES.
March 16th, 2006 at 4:15 am
This is an interesting post Haitham. I was wondering is there any views of how the Middle East, North Africa, and other Muslim countries view Christianity, Judaism, Hindu, and/or Buddishism. Anyone can answer. Thanks all.
March 16th, 2006 at 6:29 am
I am sorry but for once I agree with Thomas, a Dane.
You can say anything you want, but if the “moderate Muslims” don’t say anything against radicals they are just as guilty by association.
At least here in NA we are telling Bush, he is wrong.
One voice telling us that OBLadin is wrong is not enough.
March 16th, 2006 at 6:32 am
“Today is the time to ask the moderate non-Muslims to please stand up and let themselves be counted.”
What’s new from America? they conduct polls everyday…i just laugh it off…because to me it’s tabloid..and that danish cookie is shooting all over again…pathetic.sigh..that’s the problem with so many like him…a toad in a well with his so called panoramic view of the world. Go fly a kite..thank you.IF we are going to conduct a poll(in asian countries including China, India.etc) on whether Denmark is stupid to publish those cartoons..i guarantee u it will be a resounding YES! But we rather spend our valuable times to do something more worthwhile.
March 16th, 2006 at 7:16 am
blackfeline
Please don’t include me in your remarks.
The west is not innocent. Bush is guilty as hell.
But I am on a mission to understand your religion. Because I don’t know both sides of the story.
I only judge when I know both sides.
I don’t have a religion to fall back on to make my opinions.
Please don’t judge me until I know the whole story.
March 16th, 2006 at 9:08 am
Hi Everyone,
This subject is so coincidental. This morning my mom called me from Texas to read to me an article in the Dallas Morning News about Wafa Sultan (mentioned in the box above). I immediately googled her anme and found the full text of her interview that is so contraversial. You can find it here http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=1050 - 12k
I even e-mailed Haitham with it (smiley face) because I thought, “Uh oh, this is SURE going to cause trouble” because as it turns out her interview is being talked about everywhere. (Haitham just said, look at the home page, it’s there) Well now all I can say is that if it’s in the Dallas Morning News that is NOT a good thing. You see, all those Baptists down there are going to stand up and say, “See, there you go, an Arab female psychologist says Islam is the cause of the problem” and not hear the rest of her statements. You see what I think is the problem with ALL of the three connected faiths is that they hear what they WANT to hear because too often religion is used to JUSTIFY one’s actions rather than teach justice.
March 16th, 2006 at 10:04 am
Thomas, I don’t think that this is a boo-hoo blog at all. The fact that Haitham discusses it means he is doing something.
Haitham, I am surprised these figures are what they are. I am actually astounded that 34% of the people think that Islam is just as violent as other religions. Where is consistant on-going violence happening at the hand of Christianity? Maybe people are paying attention to Israeli violence Palestine after all.
Sean, I will give you my perspective as a white female ‘extremist’ Christian who has lived in Jordan awhile. Until I found Jordanplanet, I was pretty disgusted with how I was treated as a Christian by Muslims.
Haitham, forgive as I rant…I guess I want you to know how it feels.
For the most part, there was a lot of condecension. Many, many Muslim friends did (and still do) say this “When you are enlightened, and really study Islam, you will see it’s superiority and convert. Everyone does. You will make such a good Muslim. How can you be such a good person and not be a Muslim?” I try and take it as a compliment…
There is no room for discussion about my faith because my book was ‘changed’ along the way, although no one can seem to say when that was.
The more outwardly pious Musilms I have met, even neighbors who visit at Eid, etc., won’t shake my hand or greet me. I am Kafir, unclean.
Many assume I am immoral. I can’t tell you how many times someone has offered to pay me sums of money to divorce my husband and marry some relative so they can get a visa. As if I would be ok with that.
Now that I am older, they ask for my 4 year old daughter to marry their sons. I tell them that as Christians, we only marry within our faith. They say “Oh, but the Koran says your Christian daughters are permitted to marry Muslims, it is better then teh children will be Musilms”. Um, hellllo? That is the point!
Because I can understand Arabic and people don’t assumeI do, I hear many things not intended for me ears, about me and my faith.
Most Arab Christians will say “We are all one, Muslims are good to us” in the presence of Muslims, and then behind closed doors the stories will come out. But no one wants to rock the boat, teh status quo.
I know a couple of people in our church that were born Muslims and have become Christians…and their stories make mine look like a cakewalk.
This is why, when I found Muslims who actually dialogue, I actually began to like livign here again, and had hope which keeps me strong and patient in light of the junk I hear.
That’s my rant, on Haitham’s bandwidth again. Sorry!
March 16th, 2006 at 12:14 pm
Kinzi,
My point is that if all we do is discussing something and agreing how unfair or terrible it is, then it is a futile sobbing exercise. If a discussion does not result in any changes to current actions or future directions whatsoever, then it is only intellectual masturbation at best.
There is a good reason why the windshield of a car is much much larger than the rearview mirror. In addition to giving an occational perspective on what is behind it is most useful when backing up into a parking space. People who drive their cars by exclusively looking in the rearview mirror are dangerous to everybody around them.
I came to this blog to find progressive forward-looking Muslims to participate in bridge building; I am still looking
March 16th, 2006 at 12:21 pm
Thanks kinzi,
I have to admit what you said, this is a fact and no one can/should deny it.
Just one correction for you (and all). You said:
Actually that’s not true. Muslim men’s do not shake hands with anyone except with another man. Not even with Muslim females. So it has nothing to do with you as Christian or as you said “Kafir, unclean”.
As for Thomas, he asked similar question before and I answered him, so I’m not going to repeat it all here. But just as a reminder, Moderate Muslims are doing their best, on TV, Radio, Newspapers and now in blogs. Unfortunately, they don’t have the power in their hand to make the changes fast and sound. The problem is that Moderate Muslims are fought in two fronts, internal and external.
Therefore, if the externals like to see our Moderates do something, non-Muslims moderates should stand up and let themselves be counted. Don’t preach, do something to help, thats if you want to see things better.
March 16th, 2006 at 12:23 pm
Blackfeline,
My post was not directed towards you and the other mono thinking Muslims sitting in their own little myopic world, but towards respectable Muslims who actually practice the peace and tolerance they preach.
If I based my view on Islam exclusively on your messages and the impression you give of yourself, then I would see Islam as a primitive and intolerant religion. But I do not.
March 16th, 2006 at 12:52 pm
Haitham,
You can count me in, I would like to help you, but your answers have not yet given me anything of substance. Maybe it is my misunderstanding, but the way I receive you message is that you tell me to shut up and not criticize Muslims for doing nothing.
Is isolation the answer? Should we build a wall between the West and the Muslim world?
In that case I can imagine a sign at the borders of Euorpe saying:
Attention all visitors!
We are currently trying to contain an outbreak of myopia within our borders. If you are carrying myopia we suggest that you turn around and go back to where you came from immediately, becase at the first sign of myopia you will be rejected and expelled faster than you can say “I come in peace!”
If Muslims may not be critizised at all, how should Denmark deal with the 11% of Muslim immigrants who clearly do not respect the country that has given them refuge? The only alternative to trying to influence their opinion that I can see is to hunt them down and put them on the next plane out of Denmark!
What do we do with the Muslim extremists that may already hold Danish citizenship? Denmark is ruled by law, so it would violate their rights if we expell them from the country. Should we just ignore their human rights and follow what is the model in many countries of the Middle East and just jail them for ‘thought crimes’?
I am not interested in ignoring a problem and hoping it will go away on its own, so what is it actually that you suggest?
March 16th, 2006 at 3:42 pm
kimmy,
rest assured :)u are not on my list…just do me a favor..do not assume that Im a muslim ok..the referred cookie is rattling away with the same ad nauseam baloney…what i called flogging a dead horse…like an armchair critic. What does he knows? NOTHING..ZERO…just a bag of hot air! I have no patience with such creature…kindly clean your own danish backyard before u teach others how to suck an egg..so i will save my breathe not to engage him at all..
March 16th, 2006 at 4:25 pm
Blackfeline,
I would appreciate if you saved your breath and did not engage me at all. Do you suffer from some sort of short term memory disorder? If you scroll up the page just a little bit, then you will see that you were the one who started attacking me. If you had attacked my opinions with argumentation then I would probably take you seriously and maybe even respect you as a person, but you go directly to a personal attack which says more about you than it does about me!
March 16th, 2006 at 5:34 pm
Name calling isn’t helping. Polls are designed make or break opinions. You’re all wrong, and you’re all right. So step down. Talk is cheap. You want to break the cycle of violence, bigotry and hatred? Point it out wherever it exists. Stop “other”-ing people. Stop holding the 11 percent as the model for everyone else, poll or not. You can only hit someone on the head with a hammer so many times before they raise a fist against you. Understanding that, disarm as many of the hammer-wielders as you can. Please get over yourselves, those of any faith or practicing atheists, agnostics, none of the aboves. Step down and pitch in.
March 16th, 2006 at 6:08 pm
Raymond,
Sorry, but I really do not understand what you are saying.
What is “other”-ing people?
It is pretty clear that 11% is a fraction of 100%, so what do you mean by holding 11% as a model for everyone else?
“Step down and pitch in.” I don’t get it! To me it sounds a bit like the rhetorical question “why can’t we all be friends?”
I am really not trying to offend you in any way, but I have received your message without being able to decipher its contents.
March 16th, 2006 at 7:30 pm
Haitham wrote: “Therefore, if the externals like to see our Moderates do something, non-Muslims moderates should stand up and let themselves be counted. Don’t preach, do something to help, thats if you want to see things better.”
But this is the very thing that is going on in Iraq and Afghanistan today.
Because moderates within these Moslem nations seem unable to make any sort of recognizable changes by way of rhetoric, non-Moslems have decided to do something.
It is just as you have wished it.
If you do not agree that what is being done is proper, perhaps more action and less talk ought to be required of those who blog and talk about thier own inability to make change.
One cannot have it both ways, I’m afraid.
You cannot express self pity about your inability to combat extremism and then get upset when someone comes in to take care of your problems for you.
March 16th, 2006 at 7:52 pm
Hi Thomas and Ali,
Please note I am NOT trying to start an arguement here.
Thomas, remember over on A&M you told me to plant seeds? Well I think blogging is one small way of doing that. People from all over the world can log on and become aware of what moderate Moslems believe and that within itself contributes to an effort in de-escalating the backlash against Islam from outside entities. I guess it’s just me saying that I abhor all the name calling without getting to dialogue with eachother respectfully and understand. What do YOU think the moderates should do? I absolutley love your posts so can you give one here adressing this? (no I’m not flattering, I am sincere)
Ali, You are telling moderate Moselems to stand up and fight radical Islam. Could you provide some suggestions on how to do that? I read somewhere here where Haitham addressed this to someone and said to the affect, “the very term ‘moderate’ means that we do not use their tactics. What do you think the moderates should do bedsides whine.(again, I’m with you not against you)
In short, I do NOT know what the answer is which puts me in the class of being unconstructive myself and the arguement I am making come full circle. Any true concrete suggestions are welcome by anyone who wants this cycle of violence to end.
March 16th, 2006 at 9:09 pm
Haitham, thanks for listening. I’m not all that encouraged that is my gender that is keeping my hand from being shaken! At least I’ll know to put my hand over my heart and bow slightly if our families ever meet!
So, as a non-Muslim moderate, what can I do to help? What I usually do is go to Christian blogs and quote things about Islam and Palestine, and watch some of them go ballistic. But based on the amount of email I get, others are influenced. I think it is a one-by-one deal…I usually remind Christians that if they have hate in their hearts toward Muslims or Palestinians, it’s their problem with God. Anyway, looking forward to your opinion.
Robin…I didn’t forget to email you, just had a writing deadline!
March 16th, 2006 at 9:10 pm
Haitham, thanks for listening. I’m not all that encouraged that is my gender that is keeping my hand from being shaken! At least I’ll know to put my hand over my heart and bow slightly if our families ever meet!
So, as a non-Muslim moderate, what can I do to help? What I usually do is go to Christian blogs and quote things about Islam and Palestine, and watch some of them go ballistic. But based on the amount of email I get, others are influenced. I think it is a one-by-one deal…I usually remind Christians that if they have hate in their hearts toward Muslims or Palestinians, it’s their problem with God. Anyway, looking forward to your opinion.
Robin…I didn’t forget to email you, just had a writing deadline!
March 16th, 2006 at 9:46 pm
If I may add to my last post.
I see the current struggle between Moderate and Radical Islam as more a “political struggle” than a religious one. Let me offer this analogy, the way I see it is that it’s kind of like asking Quakers who are consciencious objectors to go fight abortion clinic bombers. Just a thought from my own perspective totally.
March 16th, 2006 at 9:54 pm
Kinzi,
Haitham IS right on this one. But even then, depending on the circumstances completely, a male-moderate Moslem WILL shake your hand. In my own case it occured in mixed gender mixed nationality business situations. It took a while to catch on to where I might extend my hand to a man safely and even then I sometimes got it all wrong.
You’re right about that again, it’s “their problem with God” Unfortunately those are the very people your statement falls on deaf ears with. You are such a wonderful ambassador between the two and I personally applaud you for that.
Glad to see you back!!
March 16th, 2006 at 9:58 pm
Thomas,
Writing in this blog and defending Islam is taking a stand against extremists. Maybe it sounds like whining to you but it is not.
Islam is a really ambiguous religion. It’s tough to really get to the heart of the religion. If you take certain passages in the Quran and just read them at face value, you most certainly would think Islam was a violent religion. I honestly would not blame you because I was guilty of thinking the same thing. However, if you read carefully, you will see that that is not the case. The fact is, many muslims are guilty of not understanding Islam correctly. They think that to harm westerners is justified because they are not muslim. This is wrong because God has specifically written that Christians and Jews are people of the book as well. Even athiests have been given protection by God.
The fact is that you want moderate muslims to stand up and take a stand against the extremists. You are right. However, extremists don’t listen to moderates. They are brainwashed. They don’t listen to anybody.
Extremism is spread by people who don’t take the time to truly understand Islam. People like Osama Bin Laden, and even some local Imams contribute in the spread of extremism. The way moderate muslims can stop extremism is to teach their children true Islam. Teach them the importance of analyzing the text of the Quran so they can see that violence is NEVER justified in our religion.
On another note, the policies of some western governments, especially concerning Isreal, do nothing but help the agendas of extremists. I think that taking a stand against them is also taking a stand against extremism.
I wish we all lived in a world where there was no violence. But humans are naturally flawed. Therefore, we are obliged to fight our shortcomings and do the right thing. To find a solution to this problem is the common goal of everyone. Throwing blame around is not going to solve the problem.
March 16th, 2006 at 10:40 pm
Dena,
I would like to thank you for a “positive” response.
I would like to add a little history here.
We all know that Saudi Arabia has funded the radical madrasas. That is an indisputable fact. Having said that, and not making excuses, here is a partial history of this phenomenon.
Back in the late 1960’s King Faisal wished to bring a small piece of the modern world to Saudi Arabia. One of these modernizations he implemented wwas television. This was seen by the fundamentalist Wahabis as not such a great idea. In order to quiet their protests, King Faisal allowed schools in Saudi Arabia to start hiring radical extremists from Egypt (the Moslem Brotherhood). Before this had not happened, the MB was considered fringe and “haram”. As modernity slowly arrived in Saudi Arabia, the Royal family which sought to neutralize the extremist forces, gave them even more leeway. Well we all know what happened next. When the television station opened, some very fundamentalist group of Wahabis rioted to keep it from opening. The National Guard opened fire and several protestors were killed. Why is this important you ask? Because it was the brother of one of the slain protestors who assasinated King Faisal in 1975. In fact the day this occured was the day I left the US for Beirut to marry my husband. Since this time the Saudi royal family has continued to appease the radicals in exchange for protection. But now we have Osama and the tables have turned. I know as a fact that Saudi Arabia is in an internal crisis not seen since it’s founding. Note here PLEASE, I am talking about the Royal family, not about all of the citizens (though some) of this country.
To ask a moderate Moslem to solve this problem is not the answer. Dena is correct, the answer for the moderate Moslem is to do what they can to sew the seeds of peace which Islam offers. The fight against “radical Islam” is a political one and can only be begun by discontiuing appeasement on a POLITICAL level and to stop blaming the average citizen moderate Moslem for the problem
March 16th, 2006 at 10:44 pm
Day by day, I’m getting disgusted by the extremist that my blog is attracting, both from Muslims and non-Muslims. Unfortunately, I don’t have enough time to reply all, plus you can’t imagine the hate and extreme comments that get posted but I don’t allow, so you all don’t see.
Some see that I’m not doing anything, and that I’m just posting here but not taking any steps to fight extremist. For those, I just want to tell you few things:
1. Do you know what risk I’m taking by posting here in the first place? I don’t live in a world the respect “freedom of expression”, so I’m at risk of getting arrested any moment if the authorities wish to do so.
2. Do you know what threats emails and comments I receive on daily bases from Muslims and non-Muslims, Arab and Westerns? I guess you don’t. I never complained, nor allowed any of these attacks to be published here, not even as a comment. But at least I’m getting indirect confirmation that some of my words are reaching somewhere.
I’m not asking anyone for anything but tolerance, even if I commit a mistake. However, you all have to understand that when I speak the truth (my truth), which might be hurting to someone, I don’t intend to attack anyone, but I have the right to speak my feelings as I see it and live by it. Some see that as hate, other say that as anti this or that, but the truth is, this is “my truth”, just like “your truth”.
Reminder… This is not a public forum. This is a personal blog, and I’m practicing my right of “freedom of speech”, but that does not mean I have to allow anyone and everyone to speak here what they want. No. If you feel offended, feel free to write your attack or counter post in your blog.
March 17th, 2006 at 2:15 am
This is an interesting post and discussion. If I may say, we can all play the blame game, who is moderate and who isn’t and who is doing something about extremism and who is just blabbering. I think Muslims, including myself, should admit that there is a violent and destructive streak in the Islam that we are witnessing today and that it has to stop. I don’t believe that it is part of the religion’s teaching, but the perpetuators of hatred and violence do. And a lot of Westerns depend on mainstream media which is mainly biased and selective in its coverage of Muslims and what they do and don’t do. So how can we reclaim our dignity and defend ourselves in the eyes of our own people and a world that views most of us as inherently evil? I think that most of the responsibility lies on Muslims shoulders, it is time to clean the house!
March 17th, 2006 at 2:39 am
Aya,
Of course you are correct to point to a bias in the media. All forums providing information (including this one) are slanted one way or another.
But you must admit, the biggest stories originating in the Moslem world in the last few years have been the terrorist attacks of 2001 and the riots/killings over cartoons.
These stories have been huge not only in the West but in Moslem nations as well, so you should not be surprised to learn that they have a massive effect on the way Islam is perceived in the West.
The fact that the stories are unfavorable is certainly not the fault of those who are reporting them. Again, many groups earn their reputations.
One way to look at it is this: If one were to murder his parents, he should not expect compassion because of the fact that he is an orphan.
And yes, you are right to suggest that most of the responsibility rests within the Moslem world itself. I can only hope others from within that culture share your view.
March 17th, 2006 at 3:34 am
Haitham,
I am not going to say that I understand the situation you are living in because I do not and I will probably not be able to even if I tried.
Please let me know if you feel that I am asking too much from you when I ask you how I can help you, but I am still interested in your reply.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I am getting the feeling from the selection of “your truths” that you are trying to trick yourself into thinking that all Westerners and their governments are only out to hurt Palestinians and the Muslim world in general.
From my side of the table it seems that every time anybody tries to reach out to help you and Palestinians in general it is met with an insult or something worse. If it is so, why? Have Palestinians become so paranoid that they see enemies around every corner or is everything so blurred that you cannot tell friends and enemies apart any longer?
When I was a kid I thought it was so sad that all the stateless Palestinians I saw on TV had to live in refugee camps. That was before I was old enough to understand what the conflict was about and before I was able to see the link between Palestinians and terrorism. What I did understand back then was that kids just like me were living without all the nice things that I had around me and that their parents were being hurt by other people.
As I grew up, I got a much broader perspective on the situation. My sympathy remained with the stateless Palestinians, but what was now making me sad was that there were small groups of Palestinians who managed to play all the aces and face cards directly into the hands of the Zionist extremists as soon as the cards had been dealt.
I am now in my mid thirties and I have almost twenty years of defending the ’cause’ of Palestinians whenever I meet somebody who only listens to the Zionist propaganda. Believe me, it has not been easy to defend ‘terrorists’, because that is how the Palestinians have positioned themselves in the minds of a growing number of people.
I am now in my third (and probably last) phase of defending the stateless Palestinians. Last phase? Well, what makes me sad now is that I can no longer see Palestinians as ‘kids just like me’, because it appears that Palestinians are just too stupid to help themselves and that they are doing everything they can to ensure that they do not get the state they deserve. I am getting tired and my support is wearing out at the same pace as the hole the Palestinians have dug for themselves gets deeper and deeper. I am not saying this to offend you; this is “my truth” and I am just being honest with you.
In NLP (a new age tool for personal development) there is a very central sentence: “If what you are doing is not getting you what you want, then continuing doing what you are doing will continue not getting you what you want!” For as long as I have been alive Palestinians have been trying to change the system to get their state, but they continue trying to change the system so they will continue not getting their state.
Instead of trying to change the system you would be much better off if you figured out how to ‘work’ the system, because while Palestinians have been trying to change the ‘rules of the game’, the Zionist extremists have been ‘players’ - and very good players I may add.
I am very stubborn, so I am not very good at giving up. The reason why I have been trying to provoke you and others into action is that I am not willing to give up just yet, because with the right marketing and if you start playing the game you still have a chance of getting the state that you deserve (and I will not have wasted my time on discussions through a couple of decades).
International politics is a dirty game that you have to accept for what it is instead of ignoring it. The cold facts are that nobody cares how good you are at playing the victim (and as long as Hamas has political power and supports terrorism at the same time you are not even good at that) or how just your cause is; if you really want to win the game you have to show that your opponent is much worse than you are. As things are currently, the Zionist extremists are playing you like a fine tuned instrument and are very successful at using you to make themselves look good in comparison.
If I had a shitty product and a growing number of people would recognize it as a shitty product I would either discontinue it or sell it under a new name and in a different color. In marketing that is called repositioning and I believe that is exactly what we are seeing Olmert doing at this very moment (probably based on plans made by Sharon). I hope Hamas will realize that they need to do some repositioning themselves, because that would really take the Zionist extremists by surprise (and piss them off that Palestinians are no longer predictable).
If you are interested in inspiration for the basis of a good Palestinian marketing campaign, then you should look at Nelson Mandela and Martin Luther King, who both successfully used the principles of ‘Satyagraha’ (civil disobedience) and ‘ahimsa’ (total non-violence) pioneered by Mahatma Gandhi in his fight against the tyranny of the British Empire in India. It may be counter-intuitive to fight back by not fighting back, but the score is 3-0 in the Gandhi vs. Terrorism game!
Haitham, I honestly do want to help you get your state, so please let me know how you think I can help you or if you don’t want my help, then feel free to tell me to fuck off!
March 17th, 2006 at 4:09 am
Dena,
I understand what you are saying, but I would like to make a couple of comments.
Teaching you kids may be a good beginning, but it would take generations before it precipitated out into society in general. That would take way too long before any measurable results would show up.
With my Atheist background I cannot agree that it is better to teach ‘true’ Islam. Not because I believe religion is bad, but because I believe the essence should be to teach the kids tolerance of people who have a different opinion (often this message gets lost in all the hub-bub around religious teachings). When they understand that, then it may or may not be time to dive into the wisdom of religion or any other belief system.
I am not asking you to go up to the first and best extremist Imam you meet and start telling him off. I disagree with the methods and ideologies of the Neo-Nazis and the Mafia, but I would never dream of knocking on their doors and try to play the righteous missionary.
I know which places to avoid in order not to run into those kind of unsavory personages, because I do not want to ask for more trouble than I can handle (I had a run-in with a couple of Neo-Nazis once, but they were not very big compared to me, so they told me what a bad foreigner I am without getting physical). However, I still stand up for tolerance and tell my friends, colleagues, neighbors or whoever I run into that I do not appreciate their racist remarks if they say something stupid about Gypsies or Jews (the favorite ‘bad’ people in Hungary).
You are probably right that by the time the extremists have been brainwashed then it is too late, that is why I think we need to bring intolerance into the open whenever we meet it, because just maybe we can prevent someone from taking the path towards extremism.
March 17th, 2006 at 4:09 am
Thomas,
I don’t mean to interupt, but I’ve been searching links to links here. On the CFL site I linked onto the orange thing that says Send your prewritten letter now. This is an American site used for American citizens to send in letters to the White House. I realize this does you absolutely no good except for the information it gives. We’ve talked about media alot and not getting the news. This site gives you so much information about what the Palestinians are going through by just giving the BIG items that they want to be adressed by our congress here. If you log onto the “alerts” listed there it will hit you like a ton of bricks. Mind you please, I have absolutely no answer to how the Palestinians should come up with an advertising campaign because especially after reading what I saw on the “alerts” it just made me come to the conclusion that the desperation is so absolutely deep that I know “I” would be paralyzed if put in the same situation. If only. If only there was an MLK or Ghandi. But what is being perpetrated against the Palestinians so very much outweighs what our blacks in the South or India under the Raj EVER was. To top it off, there is the BIGGEST BUTCHER KNIFE country in the world backing up Israel. This problem as I understand it is intractable without the US change in policy.
Again, I am NOT making suggestions OR excuses but I know this information threw me for a very big loop. If you would like to see it, here it is http://www.cflweb.org/. You may need to navigate a bit, but it’s fairly easy to do. Hope I didn’t offend with my interuption. Thanks
March 17th, 2006 at 6:14 am
Haitham,
I have tried to e-mail you but my server says you don’t excist.
Censorship?
Some links are not accessible.
Censorship?
I am in Canada and I shouln’t have this problem.
Censorship?
It is amazing how far governments will go to protect their own views.
The more I visit your Blg the more I learn.
Thank you.
March 17th, 2006 at 6:46 am
Kimmy,
mine didn’t work by useing Haitham’s thing either. This works for me: haitham.sabbah@gmail.com Hope that helps. Censorship?
March 17th, 2006 at 6:53 am
Kimmy,
I rather doubt that there exists in Canada a vast conspiracy keeping you from seeing all there is to see online.
I would respectfully suggest that you have jumped to a convenient conclusion here.
After all, these imagined shaddowy figures in the dark have “allowed” you to come to this blog time after time.
March 17th, 2006 at 7:07 am
Kimmy,
Wait a minute here. When I typed it in it came up as a link for you to use. I take it back. Just type his email above in on your own email and then save it in your address book. For some reason there seems to be a glitch, so try it the way I just suggested to see if it works for you. Hope it does
March 17th, 2006 at 7:13 am
Ali,
Kimmy’s from Canada and I’m from the States. I get VERY paranoid with all the unwarranted surveilance being practiced in the so-called “war on terrorism”. All overseas calls to “suspect” nations are now monitored. I can’t even call my ex in Saudi Arabia anymore to talk politics because HE refuses and my daughter refuses also. There was NEVER anything worth listening into but now we both feel it’s not even safe to discuss these matters. Off topic, but thought I’d tell ya. The shadowy men are casting bigger shadows and blocking out my sunlight.
March 17th, 2006 at 10:35 am
Haitham, so sorry for the junk your blog is attracting! Thanks for reminding people again of the reality of teh danger of being a ‘moderate Muslim’. May God protect you.
If it gets you down, remember you have a big fan club out there too!
March 17th, 2006 at 1:25 pm
Robin,
Regarding support for Palestine, my issues in Europe are very different from the issues you have to deal with in the US.
Here, we have a lot of information available so there is already a high awareness of what is going on in Palestine. I terms of shaping public opinion, the biggest challenge is to counter the bad publicity the Palestinians are so good at creating for themselves. A lot of energy has to be spent on reminding people that Palestinian terrorism and the abuse of Palestinians are two different issues and that they still deserve their own state even though they act in a stupid manner and though there is no justification for terrorism.
On a government level, the challenge is not to ‘force’ our politicians to support Palestine. Though a lot of Palestinians are too thick-headed to recognize it, most countries in the EU and the EU itself is on the side of the Palestinians. The big challenge, and the most difficult one, is to apply enough pressure on our politicians so that it is more ‘uncomfortable’ for them to defy the wishes of their constituents than it is to defy the wishes of the United States.
I support the domestic politics of the Danish government, but it makes me angry that they gave in to the pressure from the US to join the War on Iraq against the wishes of a large majority of the Danish population. The only consolation is that though the Danish government was too weak to withstand the US pressure they were strong enough to ensure that the Danish participation in the war is more of a token nature. Not that it justifies the Danish soldiers being in Iraq, but at least it is better that they are a little in the background than out on the streets and shooting at everything that moves side by side with the US soldiers. And the same thing goes for the ‘forced’ participation of Hungarian soldiers.
Robin, I am very angry with your government, because they are encroaching my democratic rights to be heard by forcing my elected representatives to choose between my wishes and the wishes of a group of assholes sitting thousands of miles away in Washington D.C. My anger may not be as physical as it is in the Middle East, but just because you do not readily see it does not mean it is not there.
Apartheid in South Africa is the same thing as apartheid in Palestine. How sadistic the tormentors are doesn’t change the facts that both black South Africans and Palestinians were/are denied their rights to freedom and democracy with the aid of the United States. The only difference is that one atrocity is past and the other is present.
I fully understand that it must be paralyzing and desparing for the Palestinians. Actually, I would probably also participate in an ilconsidered action or two if I came in the same situation. I think that is understandable, but ilconsidered actions through more than 35 years in a row is not understandable.
Actually, a couple of years ago I did send an email to the White House telling Bush and his gangbangers that I think they suck for weasling out of the Kyoto agreement. A couple of months later I went on a business trip to the US and I was ‘randomly’ picked out for extra scrutiny in all five US airports I went through. It may be a coincidence, but it was definitely not random. Since I am not with the US environmental policy I must be against it, so I guess I am now considered to be some sort of eco-terrorist.
March 17th, 2006 at 3:18 pm
Good Morning Thomas,
(I’m up at 3:30 am, have alot to do today but am glad to see you here)
You’re mad with my government:):) I’m MAAAAAAAAAADER. Oh who cares who’s mad or madder. If you reread my post #35 you will see that I say nothing is going to change until US foreign policy changes. In fact, much of what is going wrong in the world today is not going to change until we shift (Iraq etal) It makes me absolutely physically ill to know what our government does. I thought you might have picked up on that by now.:):)
Now I’ve got Denmark to worry about, thanks for piling it on!
Thomas, I understand what you are saying. And I have no excuses for anyone. But let me suggest that the Zionist strategy from the very beginning was ALWAYS based on victimhood, even from Biblical days. Whereas the Palestinians have only been victims since the victim state of Israel came to being and then the occupation.
I hope you also understand that I do NOT think that suicide bombings are a good public relations technique. NOT NOT NOT!
But if you look at the numbers, Israeli victims vs. Palestinian victims (I don’t have them, maybe someone could offer them) in THIS case, the Palestinians win the prize for victimhood. The only problem with saying that is that they DON’T want to win that prize because their culture is NOT a victim culture. We here in the US are famous for our support of the underdog (NOT) but that’s how it’s sold to the average American citizen. So hand in hand, Israel plays the victim, we support the underdog, and a FEW suicide bombers take matters into their own hands and there you’ve got it, an impasse. While the 99.9999%of the Palestinians live their lives saying, “What the HELL do you want us to do” Until this unholy alliance between the US and Israel is broken, and we here realize that WE ARE BEING CONTOLLED by a bunch of victim brutalizers, nothing IS going to change. I’m rambling in the wee hours of the morn, but I hope I made some sense. Happy St. Patty’s day Everyone!
March 17th, 2006 at 3:45 pm
Thomas,
Top o’the mornin to ya agin!
Let me add to the above.
I hadn’t thrown out my old newspapers yet and I just picked up Wednesday’s front page. There in bold color is a picture of the half naked Palestinian prisoners being escorted out of the Jerico jail. Where have you seen it necessary to strip prisoners down to their underwear in order to make sure they are unarmed? The headline reads “Unarmed and Under Siege”. The Israeli’s, the victims of Palestinian terrorism, are using HUMILIATION in order to portray them as less than humans. It’s a cultural difference again. Zionist/victim vs Arab/proud. But again, who’s doing the victimizing here? Throughout their history the Zionists have had God on their side. They are the descendants of Isaac the better son who will inherit the earth, and the Arabs are the children of Jacob and oh, well, they are not God’s favorite. This has been the dynamic for millenium. This superiority complex has played out as their justification to commit the atrocities in Palestine. It is the essence of Zionism and it makes me puke!!
March 17th, 2006 at 4:59 pm
Robin,
Finally the Zionist extremists make a mistake. This time, their attempt to provoke Palestinians to go nuts (in order to gain a media advantage) has backfired. This headline is the kind of trump cards the Palestinians need to change public opinion in their favor.
Imagine if there was a Palestinian organization called e.g. ‘Naked Palestinians’. A headline like “Israeli military beats up 12 Naked Palestinians during sit-down protest against incursion into Gaza”. If, at the same time, there would be no more “Palestinian suicide bomber kills X Israelis in a bus” headlines then Palestinians would be the ones with the upper hand on the media induced public opinion.
P.S. Maybe ‘Unarmed Palestinians’ would be a better name, but it is the principle in it!
March 17th, 2006 at 5:35 pm
Thomas,
There you go again making me laugh. But on a serious note, even my daughter who knows the other half of her culture so well looked at the half-naked Palestinians on TV and said, “Why are they naked?”. I said, “Honey, think about it, what do YOU think the IOF is trying to do?” It took her a few moments because she hadn’t had her second cup of tea yet and she replied, “Oh my God, I didn’t think about that”. Here in the good old US of A we (but not people who know) think this is the Palestinians just reward for their actions. After all, weren’t they in jail for SOMETHING?
I don’t care to know EXACTLY what that something is, but I’m sure it was for something REALLY REALLY BAD.
To add to my above analysis of the Zionist vs. Arab millenium long strife, I would like to add this: I wonder if any anthropologist/sociologist/possible atheist/smart person has ever proposed that Islam was a reaction to Judaism. Remember, the sons of Jacob were the outcasts. Perhaps if they come up with their own religion to say they are the chosen ones in order to trump the other two, it becomes THEIR justification. (Haitham, this is purely for the sake of discussion) Then you’ve got the Christians sandwiched between the two. We have our messiah which trumps Judaism, but as Christians we have Judaic roots. How dare Mohammed PBUH come along and say we’re both wrong? This is the root I believe of the extremism that we are experiencing in the world today. But as usual, religious differences tend to play themselves out in the political arena. As for the US, EVERYONE should know we have God on our side. Just look at our Constitution, “One nation under God” which was NOT in the original pledge but was added later. Now we have atheists trying to remove it. Oh God, and on and on and on.
Perhaps a half-naked Palestinian sit-in is a good idea. But check out the site about the Arab artist in the US who tried this.
She got ALOT of flack from Arabs. Why? Again it’s a cultural and religious thing.
March 17th, 2006 at 5:58 pm
To make myself clear,
Yes I do know that Islam is supposed to be the unifier of the three and accepts the others as “people of the book” and that their history after conquest in Spain was a glorious time of toleration (for the most part). The record is clear that Islam claims to be the last and final word. But the extremists have done just that, taken it to the extreme, while the extremists of the other two are more than willing to join the fracus. Oh my God, is this really what the message was intended to mean? Somewhere in there those of moderation need to remind us all of that and reclaim the glory of humanity.
March 17th, 2006 at 7:56 pm
Robin (re: 40),
As long as you recognize your perception to be based on paranoia you’ll be fine. It’s when you don’t see the irrationality of it that you need to be concerned.
Honestly, I would suggest that monitoring your international activities and preventing them are far different.
If an imagined government entity were to evesdrop in the hopes of preventing terrorist acts (and I think we can agree that this is a noble goal), it would naturally be inclined to have you communicate freely in order to get a clearer picture of what’s going on. (And it shoould be stated here that such monitoring is considered extremely rare and specific.)
You see, it would be counter-productive to keep you from doing what you want to do, despite how long you imagine any sort of shaddow to be getting.
You’re free to bask in the sun all day of you wish to. But be aware of the dangers of getting burned by such activity, that’s all.
March 17th, 2006 at 8:53 pm
Ali,
“If an imagined government entity were to evesdrop in the hopes of preventing terrorist acts (and I think we can agree that this is a noble goal), it would naturally be inclined to have you communicate freely in order to get a clearer picture of what’s going on. (And it shoould be stated here that such monitoring is considered extremely rare and specific.)”
Why should my government, “be naturally inclined to let me communicate freely in order to get a clearer picture” of what I am saying”. They have ABSOLUTELY no business listening in on my conversations to my ex-husband in the first place!!!! There is absolutely no reason and that instead of going to FISA they have skirted around them and said “Hey, that American housewife, mother of three, Girl Scout leader, PTA member must be doing something wrong SIMPLY because she is calling Saudi Arabia, so therefor she is suspect and we better listen in to get a “clearer picture”. It reminds me of the time I had an emergency apendectomy here in the states and I called my then husband in Saudi Arabia. The doctors shot me with THORAZINE because I must be crazy if I’m calling Saudi Arabia. Mind you I thought the shot was more demerol because I was in agony. When my mother who is a nurse came to see me she raised HELL. Go figure. As for basking in the sun, I am rather fair skinned so I am always sure to put on my sunscreen.
Peace.
March 17th, 2006 at 9:03 pm
Ali,
I hate to post again, but this monitoring is NOT “rare and specific” Our government here in the US is listening in randomly to ALL overseas calls to suspect nations. Aren’t you aware of this? I have no idea where you hail from but this is one of the biggest rucuses going on in Congress right now. And yes I think catching terrorists is a “noble goal”. In fact I think it is much more than “noble” I just want them to get their darn noble noses out of my darn business because I AM NO THREAT! ( unless you consider me speaking my mind threatening).
March 18th, 2006 at 4:58 am
This is more important than all the comments that you all post here.
I love all of you. No matter of your religious beliefs, your gender, your race.
That is more important.
I am trying to understand. But love of your fellow (person) man is more important.
If you have a problem. Let us talk. Can we not work together?
We all bleed red. We are all the same!
March 18th, 2006 at 9:34 am
Kimmy,
Beliefs are intangible and do not accept eachother.
People are concrete and can choose to accept
Despite another’s beliefs
Respect is the acceptance of another human being
For the beliefs they hold dear
Out of the love of humanity
And all that we share
March 18th, 2006 at 6:06 pm
hate to post again, but this monitoring is NOT “rare and specific” Our government here in the US is listening in randomly to ALL overseas calls to suspect nations. Aren’t you aware of this? I have no idea where you hail from but this is one of the biggest rucuses going on in Congress right now. And yes I think catching terrorists is a “noble goal”. In fact I think it is much more than “noble” I just want them to get their darn noble noses out of my darn business because I AM NO THREAT! ( unless you consider me speaking my mind threatening).
is this for real? i suggest the person gets a grip of herself…or alternatively can we have Batman back please..this is getting bizarre to say the least.I suggest u and that danish cookie from lalaland get together and put up a standup comic act!What crap..give us a break!
March 18th, 2006 at 7:17 pm
What I was saying back in post 20, two days ago, wasn’t “can’t we all just get along?”. It is clear that we cannot, as some ideologies, politically, religiously, or otherwise motivated, do not agree with each other. So we are left with this sesspool of a world. What I was saying can be said in a more direct manner, which is let’s shut up and do something.
I’m all for talking, adding to the debate, pointing out injustice on all sides. I’m also for action. Few people take action, most only talk, some not even that, for a multitude of reasons, probably motivated by fear, and who can blame them, especially if they have a family to protect, or just want to live as peacefully and inconspicuously as possible.
For those of you inclined to speak out, I’m saying take the extra step and do something. I’ve also sent letters to the Pres of A, all to no avail. He’s not listening, nor are any Senators. They’re too busy saying the right things to the right people and impressing the right lobbies to get money into their campaign hoppers and keep themselves in office.
So you go down to the local soup kitchen (assuming that you are of some means because there’s a computer in front of you), and you stir a pot for an hour or two every week. Or you go into the Muslim neighborhoods, if you’re not already living in one, and you befriend the Imam and some of his flock and get to know what they stand for. Or you get on a plane and visit the West Bank and Gaza and spend some time seeing how people there are living, and how the vast majority of them are not manufacturing explosives in their apartments, but merely doing all they can to put their kids through school and food on the table while managing their way through checkpoints, roadblocks, and unprovoked detentions.
That’s what I mean by step down and pitch in. Spending some time on this blog and others has done a lot to make me more aware, and I’ve felt a part of a community of people talking and sharing and sometimes yelling, and sometimes humbly whispering. Talk is good, dialogue is great, so now I urge that we all do something that realises our words, puts them into practice and makes a difference for someone.
It’s that simple. Don’t solve world hunger… just feed your hungry neighbors. Don’t solve world peace… just shake hands with that “other” person. (the “other”, btw, is someone who is not like you. “Other”-ing someone is stating that they are outside my circle and therefore inferior. Sometimes we practice it overtly, sometimes subconsciously.) I’m not accusing anyone of anything, and I hope that everyone here is already doing something, but if they are not, why not?
March 18th, 2006 at 7:19 pm
Please refer to the following concerning the NSA’s sping on American citizen’s overseas calls.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/ 12/23/wiretaps_said_to_sift_all_overseas_contacts?mode=PF
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_ warrantless_surveillance_controversy - 101k - Mar 17, 2006 -
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/1216-01.htm - 34k
https://www.mega.nu/cm/cm0.html - 15k
http://www.stateofnature.org/countermeasures.html - 22k -
For the Congressional enquiry refer to the following
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5248955 -
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/30/national/30cnd-inquire. html?ex=1293598800&en=5e5926c58be87717&ei=5090&…
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/030306D.shtml - 14k -
I am an American citizen who does not believe my government has the right to use domestic spying methods to listen into my own personal calls to my ex-husband who is NOT related in any way shape or form to nefarious entities.
The topic of this site is “Breeding Extremism” and I believe my own government is using the “war on terrorism” to justify it’s own extremist measures including the wiretapping of it’s own citizen’s calls.
March 18th, 2006 at 7:29 pm
sorry, haitham for the long speech. just clarifying the content of my previous post. stepping down myself, now. peace.
March 18th, 2006 at 7:35 pm
[...] or further action to stop the blood shed. In other matters, Sabbah draws our attention to increasing Islamophobia which is taking the West by storm. If this is not all, fund [...]
March 18th, 2006 at 7:35 pm
Hey Raymond,
I do work at my local food bank each week. I work the window feeding the homeless because for the last 25 year the homeless situation here in the US has been something I have tried to address by my own personal actions. The letters to the White House and our representatives, especially the form letters, more than likely end up in the trash bin. Once in a while you hear about them, and that helps us all know that we shouldn’t stop trying. I think talking is a personal way of getting it off our chests so to speak and MAYBE, just maybe, someone will listen. My own personal desire is that by hearing us and others talk, those listening will take it upon themselve to learn as much as they can on their own and then be able to make their own well-informed decisions. Curiosity is a human instinct, and if you and others at least can picque it in those listening in then you have done a good job.
March 18th, 2006 at 7:42 pm
Robin-
glad to hear. anyone else?
March 18th, 2006 at 8:14 pm
Raymond,
Sorry, I had not refreshed and missed your post #57. It’s funny you should say that because that’s exactly what I do. I have a certain sense of humor about it while deploring it at the same time. On the other hand my daughter and ex don’t share my sense of humor on this matter and we have converstions OFF the telephone where they chastise me for inviting further scrutiny. Let them listen all they want, they’re going to do it any way. But it does not keep me from deploring their actions, considering them illegal as many agree, all while freeing myself and telling them just where to go!
March 18th, 2006 at 9:09 pm
For All,
“The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 prescribes procedures for requesting judicial authorization for electronic surveillance and physical search of persons engaged in espionage or international terrorism against the United States on behalf of a foreign power” This is taken from the website of FISA.
Yesterday, several Republicans sponsored a bill which would allow for warrantless wiretapping for the period of 45 days before being subject to obtaining a warrant from FISA. In December of last year, Judge Robertson, of the FISA court, resigned over the very issue of our government not seeking warrants for the monitoring of overseas calls. The bill that the Republicans are sponsoring is in conjunction with their not allowing a probe into the matter of warrantless wiretapping proposed by the Democrats. The Democrat’s proposal did not even make it out of committe for vote due to the majority of Republicans on the committee.
In that case, let me start my 45 day period and let them listen in and be done with it. The only problem with that is that the US has the technology, and uses it to scan ALL calls to pick up on certain words which again would trigger further wiretapping. http://www.defensetech.org/archives/cat_you_can_run.html - 101k - Mar 16, 2006 -
I am in no way saying that wiretapping is not a real means of stopping terrorism in it’s tracks. But if Bin Laden and his crew were seeking to limit our freedoms such as the Bush administration has posited (but I do not agree) then Bin Laden achieved his goals by disabling myself and others from feeling free to offer my opinions on international calls. This is made so further by this method used in other countries (such as Saudi Arabia in this case) who are even less free to offer their opinions. Recently a ruling came down forcing Google, the last holdout, to turn over its’records of internet searches. Again, this is done in the name of the “war on terrorism” Note Haitham’s own statement saying that his speaking out is dangerous to do. My only statement is this: In order to fight the extremism of terrorism, our own governments are using extremist acts in order to make those of us who are wanting to speak out leery at the least and endangered at the most.
March 18th, 2006 at 10:36 pm
Again to all,
I will here take the risk of beating a dead horse with further information for those who suggest I “get a grip”
The NSA’ spy program is code-named Project Echelon. Information on this is readily available on the internet and has been reported to the public by a few reporters willing to take the risk of bringing it to our attention. For those who are interested, here are some links you can use:
http://www.flash.net/~bob001/echelon.htm - 27k -
home.hiwaay.net/~pspoole/echelon.html - 80k -
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON - 49k -
Please note that the Wikipedia article states that this program is used to intercept about three billion items per day. This is certainly a very wide net the US government is casting in our “war on terrorism”
As for Blackfeline and Ali:
I prefer to address facts with facts rather than to suggest one is either paranoid or that they “Go find Batman” I have attempted to refrain myself from attacking “people” rather than “ideas”. I would appreciate it if in the future you would address me in the same manner in which I am attempting to address you. Thank You
And All,
Use these links or ignore them, that is totally up to each individual. I am only attempting in my singular manner to give you my own “ideas” backed up with fact. Thank you
March 18th, 2006 at 10:43 pm
Haitham, I have no problem with you as a person. You are a brave man. Any Muslim that has a blog like this and is willing to give and take ideas - even ones you do not like - has my support.
I have a problem with Islam. As an infidel I see a religion of hate and anger. I have read the accounts of the life of your dear prophet - and believe me, it is not a pretty story. If this is the kind of man that Muslims admire (and they do) and if this man is consider a great moral example (he is!) - then there is going to be plenty of trouble - and there will be. The problem is that a lot of innocent people are going to get hurt.
The recent “Cartoon Wars” are so typical of this issue. I saw the pictures of those young men holding signs with words like “kill” “exterminate” and “behead”. Is this a religion of peace and goodwill? Does this cause Muslims to ponder the implications of this type of behavior? Do Muslims ask where those men get these ideas? Maybe, just maybe, it all goes back to their dear prophet and his message. Maybe they want to do to the infidels what Mohammad did.
I have no hope that things will change. Neither do I believe that “moderate” Muslims have any real voice in Islam or any idea of what to do to change things. Radical Muslims kill, moderates make excuses.
John Kactuz
I am not going
March 19th, 2006 at 7:52 am
Extremism is fed by:
1) social injustice & the accumulation of wealth in a few hands in Islamic countries.
2) the adoption of western values and customs in Islamic countries such as new year celebration etc.
3) Undemocratic government systems…
March 19th, 2006 at 8:16 am
Tamim,
Perhaps a 4th for your list would be:
4) undereducated masses made radical by corrupt religious leaders who maintain their power by restricting education and information while replacing it with hyperbole and outright dishonesty aimed at keeping the masses interested in things other than how low their own standard of living really is and the real, internal reasons for it.
March 19th, 2006 at 2:35 pm
… In Moslem countries Islamic Fundamentalists recruit the majority of their partisans among the poor and the hopeless populations and among the young belonging to disadvantaged neighbourhoods, in big cities most of the time. They take advantage of people’s Islamic background and their dissatisfaction with the corrupt existing social and political options of their countries’ governments altogether with their strong belief in Islam with the feeling of being Mislead away from its right path and deliberately being lead into a way that is not theirs.
Most of the times the extremists get help from the governments themselves for circumstantial political reasons.
In many cases the educational system facilitates the job for fundamentalists as it provides them with the suitable profiles they need. When the system of education is open to modernity, they use their partisans among school teachers and university professors to “brainwash” young students who themselves do the same when they get jobs in government offices. Another tactic is used they use their positions in government offices to assist people and make administrative procedures easier by comparison to the other officials most of which are corrupt.
In many Arab “democratic” countries the Islamist movement take advantage of the liberties and gets stronger by fulfilling the vacant role of opposition parties…/…
March 19th, 2006 at 5:07 pm
Tamim,
Your discussion here is very interesting. If I can, let me compare the US. Social injustice here is also bread by the lack of education to the lower classes AND government collusion. Just a short factual example: During the Iran-Contra affair, it was found by Congressional inquiry into this matter, that our own government was peddling crack cocaine to the inner cities via drug dealers in order to fund arms being sold to the Contras in Nicaraqua who were fighting the Sandanistas who were fighting for the implementation of a sociaalist regime. It was a very big deal here when it happened for some of us who thought this was wrong. You might remember Oliver North and some others. But where is Ollie North now? He’s on Fox News as a commentator!
I really have little knowledge as to what type of socio-economic policy Islam supports. Here in the US, our Calvinist roots and leanings definitely support capitalism. It’s sort of the “pick yourself up by the bootstraps” and “each man for himself” ideology. Are you saying that “true” Islam has been infiltrated with capitalistic ideology?
On the education front, that one is obvious to me, keep the masses “dumb”. But here in the states, we’re not resorting to international terrorism, but we do have “terrorism” within our inner cities where it is not safe to live. As a former teacher who taught in a high school where a loaded 9ml gun was brought into my classroom, I know the danger of this.
Could you tell me if you think that true Islam has gone by the wayside and been replaced with something else and what type of economic system would demonstrate true Islam? (One that would not breed terrorism) Sometimes I think we’re only talking ideals and it’s too late now.
March 19th, 2006 at 5:28 pm
Tamim and others,
One of the things I DO know is this: Prior to the state of Israel coming into existance as a “Jewish State”, Jews lived and prospered in Arab countries. An example: My ex’s grandfather was a pearl merchant in Bahrain. His partner was Jewish. In 1948 in reaction to Israel’s declaration of statehood and their atrocities against the Palestinians, both Christian and Moslem, the Moslem masses rose up against the Jews within their countries and drove them out. My ex’s grandfather protected his partner and made sure he had safe passage out of the country. He ended up in Israel due to the mass shifting of populations at the time. The two remained in contact whenever possible til the day they died. It’s just one example, but it was two men, who loved eachother, who were both victims of the circumstances of the time. We all know that Islam does not allow usury whereas Christianity does to a limit and Judaism does to a much greater degree. This is but one example of the capitalistic ideologies of Christianity and Judaism vs. Islam. One of the things I find so baffling is how our “Christian nation” stands behind a country that has mistreated ALL Palestinians, including Christians and that we support this. Of course they’re all lumped intogether as “Arabs” and there you go, the justification of our support.
I’m sorry for rambling, but if anyone has comment that can clarify my rambling thoughts I would truly appreciate it.
March 19th, 2006 at 8:32 pm
Ali,
You might remove the word “religious” from your post in 66, and you have the United States. You might even keep it in and still have the US.
March 19th, 2006 at 10:38 pm
Robin
…Islam supports free trade with social solidarity. It doesn’t exclude wealth. Profit-making is legitimate and fraud is prohibited and you have the right to do trade and earn money as far as you don’t cheat or lie or hurt anyone for profit. Private Property is protected and freedom of thought is guaranteed.
People have obligations towards one another and the poor is assisted. The “ZAKAT” is proportional amount of money 2.5% of the capital one has during a year period and that is distributed to the poor.
In Islam parents and children have mutual rights and obligations towards each other. In marriage husband and wife have mutual rights and obligations. A Moslem is judged by his creator for his acts and for his intentions as well. Society can punish him but doesn’t exempt him from God’s judgment and punishment for his wrong doing. God also rewards people for their good behaviour and pardons those who repent.
True Islam is safe as far as it is considered as a way of life and a tradition anchored in the culture of Moslems.
Islam has indeed been infiltrated by values of modernism that give the individual freedom of action regardless of his religious beliefs and origins and Islamic traditions and obligations. In modern society (which fundamentalists see as corrupt and blasphemous and anti Islamic) though the laws are copies of colonialist western laws, there is much of it that is relevant to Islamic traditions and customs. However, there are very few laws that oblige the individual to be a good Moslem.(This is the point where fundamentalists disagree most) There are quite a lot of so called Moslems (by name and birth and origin) but who behave in a way completely contrary to Islamic teachings. And the state does not interfere (Here too fundamentalists see it as the state responsibility to preach Islam and to see to its good practice and respect by every Moslem). The Jews and Christians are not included and have the right to practice their own religious rituals freely)
Islam is made to be the religion of all times and places. It’s not a static religion. It’s open to (L’IJTIHAD) which is the possibility of finding solutions to new questions according to the spirit of Islam.
Islam also advocates consultation and collective decision making; “OUA AMROUHOUM SHOURA BAYNAHOUM” “ their(Moslems) affairs are subject to their own consultation” The holy Koran.
For moderate Moslems Islam runs no risk as it adapts itself to different situations and to different locations and has solutions and answers to all questions. It’s up to every Moslem to decide to what extent he is ready to fulfil his duty towardsGod, but fundamentalists see it threatened and call for its defence (AL JIHAD ) the threat for most of them comes from inside as from outside. It’s threatened by local corrupt governments allied to the west. And it’s threatened as well by people themselves who are lead away from their fundamental practices of Islam.
Terrorism has nothing to do with Islam. Islam organizes everything in society. Economy, Politics, education, law, trades, the family, food, drink, dressing, human relationships, etc. and ALJIHAD is a ‘saint war’ to defend the territory and the nation (AL’ OUMMA) and Islam from aggressions. HERE the context can be manipulated and be given different interpretations to serve fundamentalists political purposes…
March 19th, 2006 at 11:09 pm
Tamim,
Let me thank you profusely for your excellent response to my question. From my own experiences, I knew most of what you provided but it was “scattered knowledge”. But just so my now “unscattered knowledge” is more complete, are you saying that capitalism IS compatible with Islam as long as it is practiced in moderation with social conscience? I think that IS what you are saying but I want to be absolutely clear.
See the one thing that most Westerners do NOT understand is that Islam has it’s laws codified in the Sharia. Somewhere here (another point of my scattered thought processes) I saw someone, I think it was Sumeyya over on Burqua (but I’m not sure) said that there are different Sharia’s. What was she referring to? Does it have to do with the schism between Sunni and Shiia? And is the Sharia compatable with the times of today? (I’m only asking this because the arguement is that it was written so long ago that it couldn’t possibly be) Another twist on my question, Is the Sharia similar to our Constitution (not a good comparison I know, but I’m comparing law to law) in that it is a “living breathing thing” as we like to refer to our Constitution here? (in the end your answers serve my own purpose in my continued defense of Islam) Thanks!
March 20th, 2006 at 1:08 am
I actually enjoyed this blog entry a lot when I read it. It is well thought out and Haitham did an excellent job in connecting dispariate articles, creating a narrative. Excellent job once again Haitham, your skill in writing is unquestionable.
The only thing I think that might be lost in this article is that a majority of people in America do see Islam as a peaceful religion and have not heard outwardly racist, disrespectful comments against Muslims. Yes yhere is a large minority that is very vocal on T.V. about how “evil” or “violent” Islam is, but I find the great number of people on the street are much more vocal against these bigots. Many Americans see this in terms of everyday folks; friends or colleague or merchants, that are diffrent but American nonetheless. I would propose if this poll was extended to include another question that says should the government limit Islams practice in public or private, the vast majority would say no.
It is sad that so many people have a negative view of Islam, but remember, much more people have a negative view of the government that decided to wage war on the Islamic world.
March 20th, 2006 at 2:48 am
Robin
…That’s right, capitalism is compatible with Islam as long as it is practiced in moderation with social conscience.
The Sharia is a code of law based on the Koran; holy laws of the Islam which cover aspects of day-to-day life
The holy Koran is often described as the constitution for Moslems. Sharia and the holy Koran are almost the same thing.
There is one sharia as the source of the sharia is the holy Koran which is unique and authentic. However, Along the history of Islam 4 different schools holding slightly different interpretations of the holy Koran.They are named after their religious leaders(Imams)
1. Abou Hanifa Noâman ??? ????? ???????
2. Malik Ibnou Anas ???? ?? ???
3. Mohamed Ibnou Idriss Echafiîi ???? ?? ????? ???????
4. Ahmad Ibnou Hanbal ???? ?? ????
Shiaites are the second largest branch of Islam, by opposition to the Sunni. Shiaites currently account for 10%-15% of all Muslims. Shiaite Islam originated as a political movement supporting Ali as the rightful leader of the Islamic state.
Sunni Islam represents the vast majority of Muslims. In principle, Sunni Moslems’ relationship with God is direct and is not mediated by anything like a priest or rabbi. Some religious figures may exercise a great deal of political or social power, but committees of socially important believers in each community are generally responsible for the management of the mosque and its land…/…
March 20th, 2006 at 3:14 am
Tamim,
Thank you again for clarifying my scattered thoughts. The committees you refer to are what I know from my own experience in Saudi Arabia as the “Mutawa”. Unfortunately, depending on just how liberal a citizen of SA is, the “Mutawa” are seen as long bearded men with sticks chasing the women through the streets for improper dress and herding the men to mosque at prayer time. They also spend a whole lot of time on TV reciting verses from the Koran. Please excuse me if I seem to be mocking them, but they really do “rule the roost” so to speak in SA. This of course is due to the fact that SA is a pure theocracy and they have been given the power by the SA royal family. I don’t want to get into details but I’m sure you know what I mean. Since the only Moslem countries I have resided in have been Lebanon(not a real good example due to their colonial roots in France and the large percentage of Maronite Christians) Saudi Arabia and a short stint in Bahrain, I ask you this question: How much power do these “committees” have in say Morocco or other countries. Are they called “Mutawa” there also? And do you see these “Mutawa” depending on which country they hail from as the possible breeders of extremism? I’m asking because as a fact I know that this is the case in SA. They were basically bought off by the royal family in return for silence against them. But like I’ve said other places on this blog, it came back to bite them in the shape of Osama Bin Laden who has certainly tipped the tables. Let me preface all these questions by letting all the readers know that even within the Sunni sect there are different subsects such as the Wahabis in SA. Again, I’m sorry if I ramble a bit but the questions just sort of keep on coming.
March 20th, 2006 at 5:02 am
Sean,
I also believe the media plays an important role…in a recent online poll conducted by CNN during the wake of the P & O takeover by Dubai….the question posed was:
Will u prefer an arab company or a mafia gang in America to manage the ports?
63% (translated to 30,000) preferred the latter…yes mafia gang to run their ports!
I am not surprise…but my issue of contention with this particular poll is how mischievous the question was..go figure out!
March 20th, 2006 at 7:01 am
Raymond (Re: 70).
I have carefully considered your point.
At the end of the day, I would disagree in so far as the educational and quality of life standards in the United States far exceed those of most nations. Most certainly, they exceed those of most nations centered around this discussion. Indeed, of the fortunate who are able, many prospective students leave there to become educated in the United States every day. It would not be accurate to suggest that the reverse occurs in any equitable fashion, I’m afraid.
Certainly you recognize this to be the case.
So there would be very little gained by distracting the American people concerning their standard of living. In fact, many in power there would be wise to highlight it as a means to deflate potential extremism. No real motive.
Also, there is very little in the way of information suppression in the United States. What little might exist pales in comparison with that of other, more totalitarian (boarder line fascist) nations given to instigate unbridled hatred of the West.
And, of course there is one other obvious distinction to be made. The political leadership (and “political” as opposed to “religious” is key here) of the US must answer to its electorate and that electorate is free to question them openly and without fear of mortal retribution.
In fact, not only is such questioning allowed, it is encouraged and considerd a duty by many.
So no, I do not see the parallels that you have devised here.
Not even slightly,