Comments on: 30 Israeli Soldiers Killed 8-Year-Old Palestinian Girl

By: Morning Sunshine Of Mine

Morning Sunshine Of Mine — Sun, 09 Jul 2006 10:11:48 +0000

[...] isney Land to have fun & planing for their future while others have no future at all. read the article [...]

By: deviantART: Forums: Free All Palestinian Child Political Prisoners

deviantART: Forums: Free All Palestinian Child Political Prisoners — Sun, 21 May 2006 18:21:14 +0000

[...] dozens captured everyday. [link] [link] [link] and even disabled ones [link] and more [link] and more [link] I have every reason to [...]

By: wedad

wedad — Thu, 30 Mar 2006 11:41:34 +0000

Oh my god!!!
i cant say anything, thnx for sharing it with us!

By: Robin

Robin — Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:17:23 +0000

Raymond,
You’re absolutely right. But the information of the link helped me put MY scattered information together which is a great sigh of relief. I’ll take a hint from Kimmy, KISS, as he likes to say, Keep it simple stupid, but this link is Keep it simple smart!
Not any one rock star can solve anything, but when a song is recollected for the message it sends, say “All we are saying is give peace a chance” and the Viet Nam war it gives meaning to a song of a generation. Haitham had some site a while back about Pink Floyd’s last cd having song’s about Beirut and Palestine on it. I never knew this. Music can carry a message and be a powerful tool for change. Think of it this way, when I think about John Lennon, I think about his message. If this campaign can get Bono on board, even the young people who have absolutely no interest in domestic politics let alone world politics might listen. But like I said, it’s the info on the site that’s great for everyone here, getting Bono to listen and apply is going to take alot of work. His role would then be one of inspiration and any cause needs inspiration. He is very well respected world wide and if he can parlay that respect into bringing more attention that’s GREAT. Thanks again and
EVERYONE LOG ON TO THAT LINK!

By: raymond

raymond — Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:53:33 +0000

mahleesh. it’s only a link, not a solution.

By: Robin

Robin — Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:39:52 +0000

Raymond,
That site above http://www.concert4palestine.org/
is EXCELLENT. I urge anyone reading here to link on to this if they want a very comprehensive and inclusive information source.
It covers just about every topic we have been discussing here, from a concise history of the conflict, to maps of the settlements, to the numbers of deaths on each side, to products to boycott, to a list of well known Jewish people who support a peaceful resolution to the problem. Raymond, honestly, thank you for providing it here. I have been spending so much time linking to link and the more I have done it, the more utterly depressed I have gotten, literally on overload (the lifetime student) This link makes what “didn’t make sense” make “sense”. I tend to want to know all the details. But make no mistake, “sense” does not mean “logical” to me. “Humane” means logical because it still does not make sense that this problem exists. Somewhere in the last couple of days I found a site written by an Israeli explaining just how the mere existance of the Palestinians has been erased out of the consciousness of Israel. It explains how they actually think they didn’t even exist except as a problem to be taken care of, dirty work so to speak. If I find it again, I’ll post.
Thanks again, Bono needs to realize this is Northern Ireland times 1000. His lyrics still hold true for me, even if he has not acted YET. There’s a campaign to get him to listen on this link guys. You can vote on a petition to him. Thank you Raymond, that’s really one of the best links posted here (Not because it’s for Bono, but for the information) Maybe next time you see him on the cover of Time Magazine for man of the year, he will be next to the people who finally sign a meaningful peace accord. Don’t think I’m suggesting we rely on Bono for this problem, but he sure can use his voice, “ONE” that is listened to by millions, to affect at the very least an increase in consciosness. Shukran khathir!!

By: raymond

raymond — Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:02:18 +0000

Here’s a link for you, then: http://www.concert4palestine.org/

Bono claims to care about such issues, but he and U2 have never touched the Palestine issue,
even with the similarities to his native Ireland. Besides that, U2 has played in Israel, so de-facto supports Israel.

By: Robin

Robin — Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:14:23 +0000

Raymond,
I actually get more and more and more depressed on a very personal level the more I learn. That’s not going to keep me from learning though because we ALL need to know. I’m getting so confused because what seems like “logical” is the most ILLOGICAL mess I have ever seen in my life. I’m more right-brained I guess and really LIKE logical, this is “screwing with my brain” and my psyche. Just a personal note. It’s CONFUSING and people’s lifes are at stake. These are real live human beings but why doesn’t America care? More to the “One” lyrics, “Sisters and brothers, ONE life, but we’re not the same. We get to carry each other Carry each other, ONE”

By: raymond

raymond — Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:04:49 +0000

Another disturbing issue regards the many foreigners who work to help in Palestine and must cross into Jordan every 3 months to renew their visas and then cross back. Apparently, Israel has recently decided that they can no longer do this, and is no longer renewing their visas.

By: raymond

raymond — Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:57:06 +0000

To further confuse the matter, there are refugees living in camps within the West Bank and Gaza who are so determined because their original homes were gobbled up by Israel in 1948 or 1967.

West Bankers also have an interesting situation, being that they may possess any one of many i.d.’s. Some have the Palestinian I.D. that was issued after Oslo. Some have a Jerusalem I.D. which grants them Israeli “benefits”, without Israeli citizenship. Others have the Jordanian I.D. which requires them to go to Amman every 3 months to renew their visas, and still others merely have the laissez-passer, an internationally recognised travel document for stateless individuals. So, your i.d. determines where you can and cannot go. Of course, due to the deeply embedded settlements in the West Bank, all of this is contingent on the mood of the particular soldier you are showing the document to. Most people are prevented from travelling even between Bethlehem and Ramallah, and Jerusalem is out of the question unless you hold a Jerusalem I.D.

By: Robin

Robin — Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:52:34 +0000

Raymond,
Here’s some sites I looked into but it leaves me with more questions:
http://www.arts.mcgill.ca/MEPP/PRRN/prissues.html – 37k -
http://www.shaml.org/publications/monos/mono1.htm – 38k -
http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/pubs/20000524ib.html – 13k -
http://www.mideastweb.org/peaceplans.htm – 34k -
Also, it isn’t the citizenship I am ticked about because I understand the rationalle behind it. It’s the “becomming harder to work abroad” issue that bothers me. It’s just been so DAMNED long and just when you think someone came up with a solution (cause there are so many of them) it is tossed away for one excuse or another. Kind of like burning the birthday cake over and over again while the birthday celebrant hopes it comes before the strike of 12:00. In this case the Palestinians are awaiting the “birth of a nation”

Haitham, I second Raymond’s request for you to come on and shed some light on this. Minfadlik, shukran khathir.

By: raymond

raymond — Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:32:38 +0000

That is correct. Palestinian refugees are not granted citizenship in any of the neighboring Arab countries, nor in the Gulf. Jordan is one exception, but I’m not certain that Jordan is granting that exception any longer. In the Gulf, Palestinians may live there, but are rarely granted citizenship.

Another way to look at it, however, instead of getting angry, is to consider that if all of the neighboring Arab countries granted the refugees citizenship, it would absolve Israel of its responsibility to addressing the circumstances that they created. Israel would love for this to happen. So it is not as heartless or dumb as it is a political statement. That said, the Palestinian “guests” of neighboring Arab countries are not always treated with respect as such. So, in these cases, you can be as angry as you like.

Either way, the Palestinian refugees end up being fundamentally stateless and therefore fundamentally screwed (pardon the expression), unless they manage to weather the long naturalisation process of a country like the U.S or Canada. Even then, however, they maintain their sense of statelessness, as they are not allowed (by both Israel and the ineffective international community) their right under international law, and that is their right of return to Palestine.

Maybe Haitham can shed some light on being a Palestinian refugee in Jordan. Haitham?

By: Robin

Robin — Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:13:25 +0000

Thomas,
Sometimes you CONFUSE me. I’m going to take a suggestion from Kimmy, KISS (keep it simple stupid) Maybe “opened minded” and “narrow minded” might be easier. That way anyone who wants to join can say, “I am an open minded such and such” and let us know where they WANT to come from. Anyways, the minute anyone starts “talking here” we know what the attitude is. I’m all for free positive flow no matter what the label.
Raymond,
So our circumstances are very similar, although I am divorced and it was a Saudi. That’s COOL! I like to think I threw my stinky shoes in the trash but somehow they keep smelling up my everyday existance. I think after walking side by side then one turns to the other and humbly asks if they can keep the shoes. When all is as it should be, they are given to us out of graciousness for us to wear. Anyways, now that we all have our shoes on and are ready to take a walk, I have a question. I was trying to do some research about the citizenship status of the Palestinian refugees. It seems that unless someone is able to get citizenship which is VERY hard to do, then the refugees are in limbo. It seems most that do have citizenship are Jordanian. It also pisses me off to no end to see how hard it is for Palestinians to get citizenship or work permits in other Arab countries. It seems those in Lebanon can’t work because Lebanon won’t grant them work permits. The Gulf, which used to be more welcoming has also closed it’s doors even for work permits. What say you? I know if your wife is Palestinian then under our laws she can apply for citizenship here if she wishes. What about you Thomas, How are Palestinians treated in say Hungary or Denmark?
(I’m referring to them in particular because they are a very unique situation)

By: Thomas, a Dane

Thomas, a Dane — Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:07:10 +0000

Raymond,

Could we agree on ‘Western Fascists’ and ‘Fascistic Westerners’ instead? Because then we do not risk stepping on the feelings of non-Fascist Westerners who do not know our ‘agreement’?

Besides, it is the Fascists in the West who are (and should be) the non-Western Westerners, not us :)

Peace.

By: raymond

raymond — Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:38:35 +0000

Thomas, sorry, didn’t include you in that last one, but meant it toward you as well. In effect, it looks like we’re all non-western Westerners. I know that we come in many flavors, Westerners that is, so when I say Westerners from now on, please take it to mean the fascististic kind, not the ones who are doing their best and sticking their neck out to expose these fascists. You needn’t feel guilty or offended unless you are either a) one of the fascists, or b) an enabler by your inaction.

Peace.