I did not appreciate your comment which labeled Muslim Imams as being half-witted, social misfits, low-IQ men who probably turned to studying Islam because they had nothing better to do… You portray them as being a link in a vicious circle of idiots, which is far from the truth. Actually I’ve come across some Ph.D. holders in non-Islamic doctrines who were far from being impressive and were shoddy intellectuals, so having (or not having) a Ph.D. is really irrelevant here. My own personal experience was with highly educated and intelligent Imams and Muslim scholars (Sheikhs) from whom I learnt a great deal, spiritually, intellectually and socially. The Egyptian Mufti (Dr. Ali Jumaa) is one of the best examples that come to mind. He is extremely knowledgeable in many fields (not only Islam) and he is very rational and down-to-earth in his approach. I would therefore suggest that you widen your circle to include precisely those kind of imams I’m talking about and listen to their Friday khutba, and not just go to any mosque. Not only will your faith (Eman) be recharged, but also your soul will be invigorated with the beautiful teachings of Islam and the love of Allah and his Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him). I have lived in the U.A.E. for close to 15 years, and I must say that my best spiritual experiences were in Dubai mosques, listening to the beautiful voice of the Imam reciting Quran and to their inspiring khutbas. It made me a better Muslim, and hopefully a better human being… However I will be honest with you: some Imams have become more or less government employees and may lack the charisma and art of delivering a khutba, hence they leave their audience with close to nothing, or worse… with a negative impression… which is precisely what happened to you. So may I suggest that you choose a good Imam, just like you choose a good movie to watch, or a good restaurant… And do take your kids more often to the Mosque, and do teach them their religion, you owe it to them… I sincerely hope you have a beautiful spiritual experience… Incidentally it’s not “dump” but “dumb”…

have a look at mine also..will u?

In my search, I found this analysis interesting.
http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch15.html

Afghanistan is an example of a country that was run for years by a bunch of hypocritical extremists. The Taliban regime publicly executed people for committing sins by stoniing them or by shooting them in the head. There was no such thing as trials or a judiciary system. It was all based on simple accusations. Women couldn’t step outside of their house without a male relative, they couldn’t see a doctor when they were sick, they didn’t have the right to an education. People couldn’t even listen to music, take pictures, or even fly a kite. How on earth are these sins?

We need to do whatever we can to stop these extremist Imams before they brainwash anymore people.

It is because of them that the view of Islam in the West is becoming so contorted. And it is because of them that people think Islam promotes violence.

It is so important to speak out against the extremists so that a tragedy such as the one that occurred in Afghanistan, never happens again.

I agree with you.

I was shocked this morning when I was reading one of the daily newspapers (Bahraini newspaper) and came across an article which describes the conflict in the Bahrain parliament about the proposal of 14 MP’s who want to “cut the thief hand” Islamic rule. Of course the proposal is by a group of “Muslim fundamentalists” who think that they are the only truth on earth. So far, the moderate MP’s was successful to stop these fundamentalist, but God knows until when.

Of course this is just a small example of the stupid laws they want to pass, not only in Bahrain, but similar MP’s all over the Arab/Muslim world is trying to do the same. Some of them were successful, other didn’t.

I guess all of these still think that earth is flat and moon is made of cheese!

The worst is that these and their alike are still the guys who write and design the religion books that are given in our schools. So you can imagine what our kids are learning. Honestly speaking, one of the main things I do when my kids return home is to ask them what they learned in school, specially, what they learned in the Islamic class. Unfortunately, I always find something I don’t like, something stupid, something that does not belong to Islam, and I start unlearning them what they learned.

Unfortunately it seems that the majority are those who understand Qur’an textually. As I said, I learned Islam myself and understand Quran contextually, not through the “Amar Ma3ruf,Nahi Munkar” mobs.

You see, these are a very good example of ignorant Muslim clerics, and they are not minority. The “Amr bel-Ma3ruf, Nahi 3an Munkar” group in Saudi for example have the right to do anything with you (assault you, beat you, jail you, or your wife, sister, etc…) just if they think or believe that you are doing wrong (which you may not be doing), and stories about these powerful, authorities and general public, is always a headline news in Saudi.

Anyway, as I said before, I do not doubt Qur’an, but I doubt those who think they know it and teach it according to what they like.

Here is an example of our clever clerics:
http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2006/01/11/is-it-2006-or-1006/

and another one of the Islam justice system:

http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2005/10/28/saudi-arabia-14-year-old-boy-faces-execution/

The list is endless… This is how we convert that God “love” sinners (if they are at first place)!

May be the moon is made out of cheese after all…:)

Bassam

Once again you put forth a very interesting discussion.
As I had pointed out in past posts, I have researched many religions and found similarities in all of them, but one issue which always is clear to me is, how so many of the so called experts misinterpret the text usually to fit their own needs at the time.

Mind you, the fact that these texts were written so long ago, they do leave a lot of room for misinterpretation as even the language and dialects we use to day are quite deferent from the past.

Having said this, I find that many of the spiritual leaders) imams, pastors, and the like) seem to be bent on trying to apply instructions from a deferent generation to our generation, this will never work and will always cause conflict, I believe if they only took the main massage of the religion, then we may find the peace we are all searching for.
Let’s not forget that during those times and until recent history, people believed that the earth was flat and that the earth was the centre of the universe, so why do some people relentlessly attempt to live by these old texts word for word, it is incomprehensible to me.

As for the title for this bible, I think it is misleading but hey if these guys think that they can “save” a prostitute with it then what’s the harm?

The short answer, it is there. Complete forgiveness is present in Qur’an and Islam.

While the method is different from the nutshell (through Jesus or through God), but the concept is the same.

However, while the results are same, approaches are different.

Let me talk about my experiences as a Muslim, which might be different than others.

In my case, I see only threats and hell when listening to most of the Muslim clerics. They would mostly be angry and violent when they are asked about prostitution or porn in general. In fact they would be like that when asked about any sin. I don’t remember I ever heard from a Muslim cleric the positive side of after life if a sinner returns back from what s/he might be doing, but only the picture of the hell he will burn in and the torture he will face days and nights for God knows when.

God hate us because we are sinners!

What I’m trying to say after many years of research in Islam and Christianity, Islam present advocators are in general very negative when compared to most of the Christian Evangelist (as an example of Arab Evangelist).

While Evangelist would always be looking and showing the half-full side of the cup, unfortunately our Muslim Imams will be looking at the half-empty side.

Generally speaking, if I was ignorant non believer and got the chance to listen to a Muslim Imam and an Evangelist, I would have become Christian. However, I’m lucky enough to be educated to dig and teach myself what Islam is and what Christianity is. So my choice of being a Muslim is not based of how I was thought in school, but on what I learned by research. And please, don’t misunderstand that I think low of Christianity, not at all. In my research, I found that Christianity and Islam are very close, and that each has its bits of problems.

Just to surprise you, I’m a Muslim because I am motivated by challenge, and I believe that there is nothing more challenging these days other than being a Muslim.

Anyway, as I said, that’s just me!

I’m afraid that Muslims would not like what I said, specially those who knows nothing about Christianity other than what they heard at school and from our clerics, which is 1 in million of what is Christianity is about (that if they tell the truth). I can guess that maybe not more than 1 in 100 would tell you the story of “Let those without sin cast the first stone.” story, background and real meaning!