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Smart:
(AP) CORONA, Calif. Two Corona pastors who minister to the adult film industry have hit a roadblock in their crusade. Their publishing company is refusing to print bibles with the brand "Jesus Loves Porn Stars" emblazoned on the cover.
Pastors Mike Foster and Craig Gross are the founders of the anti-porn Internet ministry XXXchurch.com. They hand out copies of the New Testament at adult film conventions.
They thought putting an edgy cover on the bibles could get them attention and increase their distribution.
So they paid the American Bible Society (ABS) to print 10,000 copies of the Scriptures. But the publisher backed down after hearing about the cover concept.
The ABS says while it appreciates the pastors' mission, the words "Jesus Loves Porn Stars" are “misleading and inappropriate for a New Testament."
Yes smart. But IMHO…. Cheap and Misleading method.
Jesus loves porn stars, but the question is when and what he loves in them?
On the other hand, let’s be honest. If you ask a Muslim cleric what he would do with a porn star, 99.9 percent of them will tell you that they should be killed. Well, at least these Christian Pastors are trying to win the sinners, not kill them!
The problem is not in Islam as a religion, but in those who teach it and who claim to be masters in it. Not all of them of course. Muslim reformist like Amr Khaled won't advocate killing sinners (or anyone), but would most probably outreach to them in a peaceful and constructive method. He might even go far in putting a systematic plan to do it.
So, why the 99.9 percent Imam's would call to kill the "sinners"?
The reason is simply known. These 99.9 percent of Imam's and Muslim clerics were (and maybe still) originally the dumpiest kids in school. So you can imagine what they would become after they enter one of the Islamic schools, where the teachers are nothing but an old generation from the same low IQ kids few generations ago. The only difference is that these teachers now got a PhD from a chain of low IQ PhD's, resulting in… you can guess the rest.
I'm frustrated. Last Friday was my first time entering a mosque since ages (this is because of a long story which does not fit here now). The reason was that my kids (Noor is 7 and Yahiya 5) wanted to see what is inside a mosque and they wanted to learn praying, so I took them to a well known mosque (somewhere in Manama).
Honestly, I think I regret going there. Not because I didn't want the kids to learn (they hardly knew what was going on), but because the Imam Friday speech was the dumpiest I heard since ages (since I don't listen to them in general, not that I listen to something good out of them). Just as I expected, the guy(s) lives out of space. He is detached from what, where and when we are living. I haven't learned anything new (didn't expect to) from all what he was talking about. But it just proved to me that the picture I carry about these guys is true.
Just to give you a hint of what he was talking about (the main subject was magic), he deny the fact that the Solar Eclipse is a scientific phenomenon and claims it is a religious one. It does not happen because the solar system was designed to function like this, but according to him, it happens because Muslim's God have to worship him, and this is an event to prove that he (God) is worth worshiping. How stupid can it more be? You see, he can't make the difference between the cause and its reflections. Very narrow minded!
I was burning in anger and wanted to stand up and tell him, "you are stupid, dump ass and don't know what you are talking about", but in a second thought, the kids would be barrier for me from running from the angry thousand prayers sitting there and listening (I doubt how many understood what he was saying). I just kept my mouth shut, stood up, thought of leaving, but then, I thought, I came here for my kids, so I sat down until the end of prayer.
Yes, Jesus loves porn stars, but I doubt how such a low IQ Imam would understand this.
{ 27 } Comments
i belive this is a huge generaliztion,just because he went to university to get a a degree in islamic reglion dosnt imply he has a low IQ.Instead because they were intrested in this field.Students with "Low IQ" generally tend to do labour work,not imams.
Plus i would hardly belive that immas in europe has the same tone and i bet they well educated informed people.
maybe you should go to more mosques more often.
Sabbah,
I love this entry, it's hysterical, but still I must object to your depiction of Islam. I am not Muslim and you are, so I guess you're holding all the cards. However, I did anthropological research on a women's Islamist movement in Jordan and I can tell you that the people I met there were not dumb kids–far from it. They were really thoughtful, interesting kids who were probably more challenged intellectually by their extracurricular Islamist activities than they were by their university classes. Of course there were different types there, but most of the Islamists I knew were very open minded, creative, and engaged in the world around them. I'm sure you wouldn't agree with their ideas, but that doesn't mean that they didn't have any! Taking a spiritual view of the world is not dumb.
Don't you think that you are feeding peoples' prejudices by putting ideas like this on your site, which aren't even true? You object to U.S. foreign policy, but then you reinforce the one-sided view of Muslims that it's based on. Amr Khaled is not .01% of religious Muslims–in my experience, he's in the majority and certainly loved by the majority. I know that you were talking about Imams not religious Muslims, but you should pay attention to how people will read what you're saying.
Jesus does indeed love porn stars, and those publishers are cowards.
I agree, generalization is wrong. But I'm so unfortunate not to meet or see or hear a smart one yet, and I'm not in Europe, here only at Bahrain
Laura,
I would love to think that Amr Khaled is more than .01%, but he is not. Yes, he is loved by millions, yet hated by millions too, specially those hardliners and their followers like Qaradawi.
End of the day, you want find someone like Amr Khaled in Mosques, and if you do, they are 1 in 1000.
On the other hand, objecting to US does not mean that I have to be a fundamentalist. Even moderate Muslims object to US. However, fairness is to admit mistakes when I'm mistaken. I guess you will see something of this sort in the comments going to come hear!
Jesus said:man kan minkom bila khatee'a falyarjomha bi awwal hajar.meaning he of you is without sin shall throw the first stone at her,referring to maria magdeline,who was more or less labelled as a prostitute.Jesus indeed loves all his children,even the sinners,but this statement is misleading and I would not want to see it on a bible.As for the imam..well..what can I say?ignorant ?illeterate?blind?stupid..you name it!
Haitham,
I love, love, love this post! For a Catholic that still does regularly go to church, I find this post so relevant.
It makes me laugh how similar we all are. How there is always the silly religious leaders saying absurd things by taking a ridiculous interpertation of holy texts. How some people follow blindly and how the greater majority complain about the silly remarks made during religious services. How the reformers and intelligent religious leaders are in competition with the crazy fundamentalist. How disagreement with policies of nations and conflicts have more to do with the economics and politics of people and not their religion.
Thank you again Haitham. And I will end with the quote I heard this last Christmas at a local church, "Those that support any kind of birth control or abortion are Nazis."
Haitham,
I love, love, love this post! For a Catholic that still does regularly go to church, I find this post so relevant.
It makes me laugh how similar we all are. How there is always the silly religious leaders saying absurd things by taking a ridiculous interpertation of holy texts. How some people follow blindly and how the greater majority complain about the silly remarks made during religious services. How the reformers and intelligent religious leaders are in competition with the crazy fundamentalist. How disagreement with policies of nations and conflicts have more to do with the economics and politics of people and not their religion.
Thank you again Haitham. And I will end with the quote I heard this last Christmas at a local church, "Those that support any kind of birth control or abortion are Nazis."
Ziad,
"Plus i would hardly belive that immas in europe has the same tone and i bet they well educated informed people."
Hmm, I challenge that concept. I would hardly call the Danish Imams who ignited the whole cartoon debacle for educated and informed. The pattern is becoming clearer, which is that a lot of the Imams in Europe (not only the few crazy Danish ones) are 'imported' by Muslim Brotherhood sympathizers as missionaries of extremist Islam.
I would much have preferred that the group of Danish Imams had challenged that the world is round or talked about solar eclipses than declaring war on infidel Denmark based on lies and intolerance!
It is hard to say which percentage is represented by 'Brotherhood Imams', because based on media coverage they would make up around 90%, but empty barrels make the most noise so it has to be significantly lower.
Haitham,
It is common knowledge that it is the goddess Sol, who is driving the solar wagon. She is being chased by the wolf, Skoll, who wants to eat her. The solar eclipses just mean that Skoll has almost caught up with her. But it will only be at the beginning of Ragnarok (the end of the world) that Skoll will eat Sol and Hati, the wolf chasing the Moon Wagon, will eat her brother Mani.
I agree that the Imam's solar eclipse story is crazy and has nothing to do with reality
Haitham,
Your remark is a gross generalisation which I disagree.You have fanatics and bigots in every religion.I don't know what country you live now, but I can tell you that in Indonesia ,the most populous muslim country, majority are moderate sensible muslim.Yes you can find fanatics but they constitute low minority.I have been in Friday prayers in Jeddah ,San Fransisco and Alexandria,Egypt and I found the khatibs are sensible and well educated.
Topo,
Yes, they are well educated, as I said, PhD holders, but educated to do what? say what? act how? what did they learn, and what are they teaching? Even Bush is educated; does that make him a genius?
Haithim, I agree. The junk that streams from the loudspeakers Fridays from the mosque near us in Amman makes me crazy. Once the US Embassy even warned foreigners NOT to drive by that particular mosque on Fridays due to the vitriolic nature of what was being taught.There is so much good that could be disseminated; I personally wish they would devote some teaching to how to love your neighbor by parking properly.
I'm not too keen on the "Jesus loves Porn Stars", Bible cover, I wouldn't want to have to explain it to my kids if they saw it at church. Maybe if it was added "As Much as He Loves Those Who Condemn Them". I think it is great that pastors are reaching out to people caught in this profession, i think it is what Jesus would have done. The Bible teaches "While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us", and "It is His kindness that leads us to repentence" I'm glad He continued to pursue me when I was in rebellion, and didn't wait fr me to change to offer His forgiveness.
Haitham,
Thanks for the post. This little organization, xxxchurch.com has gotten quite a bit of coverage here in the US, at least in the Christian community. It really speaks to the foundational Christian concept, that Jesus came to earth, not to condemn those who are in sin (for we are all sinners) but to save us out of that sin. It is a mind blowing concept that is still incomprehensible, revolutionary, and under-emphasised after 2000 years.
I wonder, Haitham, if this concept of utter and complete forgiveness is present in the Qu'ran. Whether or not the imam's teach it is irrelevant, because men can choose the points out of any scriptures (Qu'ran, Torah, Bible, Bhagavad Gita) that THEY wish to emphasize.
Joe,
The short answer, it is there. Complete forgiveness is present in Qur'an and Islam.
While the method is different from the nutshell (through Jesus or through God), but the concept is the same.
However, while the results are same, approaches are different.
Let me talk about my experiences as a Muslim, which might be different than others.
In my case, I see only threats and hell when listening to most of the Muslim clerics. They would mostly be angry and violent when they are asked about prostitution or porn in general. In fact they would be like that when asked about any sin. I don't remember I ever heard from a Muslim cleric the positive side of after life if a sinner returns back from what s/he might be doing, but only the picture of the hell he will burn in and the torture he will face days and nights for God knows when.
God hate us because we are sinners!
What I'm trying to say after many years of research in Islam and Christianity, Islam present advocators are in general very negative when compared to most of the Christian Evangelist (as an example of Arab Evangelist).
While Evangelist would always be looking and showing the half-full side of the cup, unfortunately our Muslim Imams will be looking at the half-empty side.
Generally speaking, if I was ignorant non believer and got the chance to listen to a Muslim Imam and an Evangelist, I would have become Christian. However, I'm lucky enough to be educated to dig and teach myself what Islam is and what Christianity is. So my choice of being a Muslim is not based of how I was thought in school, but on what I learned by research. And please, don't misunderstand that I think low of Christianity, not at all. In my research, I found that Christianity and Islam are very close, and that each has its bits of problems.
Just to surprise you, I'm a Muslim because I am motivated by challenge, and I believe that there is nothing more challenging these days other than being a Muslim.
Anyway, as I said, that's just me!
I'm afraid that Muslims would not like what I said, specially those who knows nothing about Christianity other than what they heard at school and from our clerics, which is 1 in million of what is Christianity is about (that if they tell the truth). I can guess that maybe not more than 1 in 100 would tell you the story of "Let those without sin cast the first stone." story, background and real meaning!
I thought that "God was all forgiving" was in the bible!
Haitham,
Those clerics you mentioned are puritans who understand Quran textually. While I have always been taught to understand Quran contextually.Life in 21st century can not be lived by rules and values revealed in 7th century. Islam promotes Amar Ma3ruf,Nahi Munkar - preaching for good deeds, and prevent evil doing. Unfortunately the clerics that you referred are more interested in Nahi Munkar than Amar Ma3ruf, so they see the world from the dark side. I don't see anything wrong with Quran. I would not distance myself with Islam just because I have few bigots in the neighborhood. I hope I don't get you wrong.
Haitham
Once again you put forth a very interesting discussion.
As I had pointed out in past posts, I have researched many religions and found similarities in all of them, but one issue which always is clear to me is, how so many of the so called experts misinterpret the text usually to fit their own needs at the time.
Mind you, the fact that these texts were written so long ago, they do leave a lot of room for misinterpretation as even the language and dialects we use to day are quite deferent from the past.
Having said this, I find that many of the spiritual leaders) imams, pastors, and the like) seem to be bent on trying to apply instructions from a deferent generation to our generation, this will never work and will always cause conflict, I believe if they only took the main massage of the religion, then we may find the peace we are all searching for.
Let’s not forget that during those times and until recent history, people believed that the earth was flat and that the earth was the centre of the universe, so why do some people relentlessly attempt to live by these old texts word for word, it is incomprehensible to me.
As for the title for this bible, I think it is misleading but hey if these guys think that they can "save" a prostitute with it then what's the harm?
By the way regarding educated imams and priests… Contemplate this for a while.. Recently in Canada a new conservative government was elected, one of the MPs (Member of Parliament) who is now the MP in charge of public safety, is a very conservative Christian who believes that the world was created about 6000 years ago and that man lived with the dinosaurs.
All I can do is shake my head.
May be the moon is made out of cheese after all…:)
Bassam
Topo,
Unfortunately it seems that the majority are those who understand Qur'an textually. As I said, I learned Islam myself and understand Quran contextually, not through the "Amar Ma3ruf,Nahi Munkar" mobs.
You see, these are a very good example of ignorant Muslim clerics, and they are not minority. The "Amr bel-Ma3ruf, Nahi 3an Munkar" group in Saudi for example have the right to do anything with you (assault you, beat you, jail you, or your wife, sister, etc…) just if they think or believe that you are doing wrong (which you may not be doing), and stories about these powerful, authorities and general public, is always a headline news in Saudi.
Anyway, as I said before, I do not doubt Qur'an, but I doubt those who think they know it and teach it according to what they like.
Here is an example of our clever clerics:
http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2006/01/11/is-it-2006-or-1006/
and another one of the Islam justice system:
http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2005/10/28/saudi-arabia-14-year-old-boy-faces-execution/
The list is endless… This is how we convert that God "love" sinners (if they are at first place)!
Mougly,
I agree with you.
I was shocked this morning when I was reading one of the daily newspapers (Bahraini newspaper) and came across an article which describes the conflict in the Bahrain parliament about the proposal of 14 MP's who want to "cut the thief hand" Islamic rule. Of course the proposal is by a group of "Muslim fundamentalists" who think that they are the only truth on earth. So far, the moderate MP's was successful to stop these fundamentalist, but God knows until when.
Of course this is just a small example of the stupid laws they want to pass, not only in Bahrain, but similar MP's all over the Arab/Muslim world is trying to do the same. Some of them were successful, other didn't.
I guess all of these still think that earth is flat and moon is made of cheese!
The worst is that these and their alike are still the guys who write and design the religion books that are given in our schools. So you can imagine what our kids are learning. Honestly speaking, one of the main things I do when my kids return home is to ask them what they learned in school, specially, what they learned in the Islamic class. Unfortunately, I always find something I don’t like, something stupid, something that does not belong to Islam, and I start unlearning them what they learned.
It makes me so mad that the extremists are high-jacking our religion because they think they have some God-given right to. Nobody has the right to judge anybody else because none of us is perfect. What right does an Imam have to cut someone's hand off for stealing?
Afghanistan is an example of a country that was run for years by a bunch of hypocritical extremists. The Taliban regime publicly executed people for committing sins by stoniing them or by shooting them in the head. There was no such thing as trials or a judiciary system. It was all based on simple accusations. Women couldn't step outside of their house without a male relative, they couldn't see a doctor when they were sick, they didn't have the right to an education. People couldn't even listen to music, take pictures, or even fly a kite. How on earth are these sins?
We need to do whatever we can to stop these extremist Imams before they brainwash anymore people.
It is because of them that the view of Islam in the West is becoming so contorted. And it is because of them that people think Islam promotes violence.
It is so important to speak out against the extremists so that a tragedy such as the one that occurred in Afghanistan, never happens again.
Ditto Joe. The most basic premise of Jesus' teaching may be found in the statement, "Jesus loves porn stars." In other words, every human is of eternal value. It is our own actions and inclinations to evil that separate us from God (thus the need for reconciliation through Christ). Fortunately, many Christians are stepping out of the comfort of the church walls and being relevant to the culture. Yes, the statement may look shocking on a Bible cover. I wouldn't put it on a church pew or chair! But it would serve a great purpose to others who are unfamiliar with that truth. Is it misleading? Nope. It is very creative phrasing, designed to use irony as its hook. My website, deathway.com, uses a similar premise. Images of skulls and dark scenes and such probably wouldn't work inside a church. But they are effective imagery for those whose tastes are in, say, metal or goth music and culture. People who otherwise would have no interest in Christianity based on preconceived ideas may be able to relate to Jesus loving porn stars or dying to self (another Deathway thing). xxxchurch is very clever, creative, and effective. It's funny…such ministries make a lot of conservative evangelicals squirm, because of their quirky way of doing things. This, I would think, is a similar reaction more conservative Muslims would have to this blog! Maybe without as violent a response, but the same general idea. The great irony is, xxxchurch and others in their ilk (like us) are commonly made up of, ironically — conservative Christians!
I am a Catholic brought in an extremely multi-cultural society in England, (especially in school). To put it simply, the more "educated" my muslim friends were of their religion, in terms of knowing the qu'ran, hadith, politics, history and philosophy of islam, the more strict and fundamental they appeared. Those who considered themselves muslim but hardly prayed and did not eat halal meat knew very little about their religion. There are many muslims today who consider themselves muslims, but contradict what is written in the Qu'ran. Surely if the Qu'ran is 100% word of God muslims should abide to it by the letter, especially when in certain statements there is no dispute: 24.31 reads: "And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their khumur over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers…….. In this case surely muslims should never walk around with make up, and fancy expensive tops, or ones where one can see the shape of the breasts. Also surely no muslim should drink alcohol and never touch non-halal meats? What is this "moderate" muslim attitude, when comments from God such as these cannot be disputed? Please explain.
Fundamentalists of all faiths bind themselves to the letter of their holy teachings, not just Islam.
In my search, I found this analysis interesting.
http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch15.html
Islamic dont have low IQ'S . The religion is just very cruel. It is says in the Korean Non-beleives are to met with the sword. It says they sould be killed!
I tend to like sabbah's blog..I don't know why?
have a look at mine also..will u?
Haitham,
I did not appreciate your comment which labeled Muslim Imams as being half-witted, social misfits, low-IQ men who probably turned to studying Islam because they had nothing better to do… You portray them as being a link in a vicious circle of idiots, which is far from the truth. Actually I've come across some Ph.D. holders in non-Islamic doctrines who were far from being impressive and were shoddy intellectuals, so having (or not having) a Ph.D. is really irrelevant here. My own personal experience was with highly educated and intelligent Imams and Muslim scholars (Sheikhs) from whom I learnt a great deal, spiritually, intellectually and socially. The Egyptian Mufti (Dr. Ali Jumaa) is one of the best examples that come to mind. He is extremely knowledgeable in many fields (not only Islam) and he is very rational and down-to-earth in his approach. I would therefore suggest that you widen your circle to include precisely those kind of imams I'm talking about and listen to their Friday khutba, and not just go to any mosque. Not only will your faith (Eman) be recharged, but also your soul will be invigorated with the beautiful teachings of Islam and the love of Allah and his Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him). I have lived in the U.A.E. for close to 15 years, and I must say that my best spiritual experiences were in Dubai mosques, listening to the beautiful voice of the Imam reciting Quran and to their inspiring khutbas. It made me a better Muslim, and hopefully a better human being… However I will be honest with you: some Imams have become more or less government employees and may lack the charisma and art of delivering a khutba, hence they leave their audience with close to nothing, or worse… with a negative impression… which is precisely what happened to you. So may I suggest that you choose a good Imam, just like you choose a good movie to watch, or a good restaurant… And do take your kids more often to the Mosque, and do teach them their religion, you owe it to them… I sincerely hope you have a beautiful spiritual experience… Incidentally it's not "dump" but "dumb"…
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