Thanks for the replies

That is a very interesting site, although it did not give me much hope.

I do agree with you that if Hamas stood up and acted in a smart intelligent way, it would in a way force the Israeli’s to negotiate. In addition, possibly agree on a deal.

Although I do not believe that Israel will ever give back East Jerusalem or allow the exiled Palestinians to return.

I am not as hopeful as you are, and in fact, I do not think that I will see real peace there in my life time…but I would be glad to be proven wrong.

Thank you for your reply.

I am almost as pessimistic about Israel pulling back to the pre-1967 borders as you are, but only almost.

Imagine if Hamas came out and said that they would recognize Israel in the form described in UN resolution #181 that Israel has been defying for half a century.

Further, imagine if Hamas also said that though it cannot give any guarantees that nobody will commit suicide bombings or rocket attacks they will take all possible measures that there will be no such attacks for the next 12 months as a sign of good faith. Then Hamas would present a list with ‘demands’ (steps toward reaching the UN sanctioned solution including the UN sanctioned right of return) like removal of settlement blocks, return of the files with land claims (the ones Israel stole to prevent Palestinians to prove their UN sanctioned right of return), removal of the apartheid barrier completely or to the UN sanctioned pre-1947 borders, etc.

For every ’step’ Hamas would promise to extend the 12 month period it will take all possible measures with one or two months until Israel has fully complied with the UN resolutions it has defyed for half a century. Last part of the Hamas declaration would be to give a guarantee that it will permanently take all possible measures from the day that Israel fully complies with the UN resolutions.

Currently it is an undisputed fact that extremists on both sides do not recognize the UN resolutions (which, realistically, is the best deal the Palestinians can hope for), because as long as Hamas does not recognize Israel, then they stand as the lunatics in the conflict and they make it easier for the Israelis to give good excuses for grabbing more land before a peace (that does not look like the UN resolutions) can be reached. But if Hamas recognizes Israel then they have shown the biggest possible sign of good faith without selling out the Palestinians. With that ‘good publicity’ they can explicitly tie every other sign of good faith to Israels compliance with the UN resolutions, because the name of the game is to show everybody that it is the Israeli extremists who are the assholes and not anybody on the Palestinian side.

With a little bit of luck this would work. The Israeli extremists have been too good at diverting the issue from the fact that there is a UN sanctioned solution and the Palestinian extrmists have been too good at helping it!

By the way have you seen this (http://www.nimn.org/) it is a Jewish organization in Illinois, USA and they offer the best and most objective view on the history of the conflict that I have ever seen anywhere (”The Geneva Bubble” by Ilan Pappe: http://www.nimn.org/Resources/geneva/000136.php?section=Geneva%20Initiative )

Although I do agree on many of the points you made, I do not see Israel ever pulling back to the pre 1967 boarders, that would mean that East Jerusalem will be a part of pelestine…this will not happen any time soon, as the Israely hard liners will not allow it.

Having said this, I just hope that Hamas party leaders will be smart enough to move towards peacfull means instead of the ineffective voilant ways. but this may only be wishfull thinking on my part.

I don’t have time for a thorough reply at the moment, but I will ask you to chew on a couple of aspects.

Yes, Palestinians are the weak side, there is no denying that, but that does not give them a license to be counter-productive.

Palestine IS recognized as a country by the EU, USA, even by Israel! What is not recognized by the USA and Israel is where the border is supposed to be. If Hamas does not want to recognize the borders either, then it creates two main problems; a) the Hamas is ‘just as bad’ as the Israeli extremists, and b) it gives Iraeli extremists a good excuse for trying to renegotiate something that should not be up for negotiation (the borders).

Regardless of what anybody think, the reality we have to work with is what is laid down in the UN resolutions calling on Israel to pull back behind the pre-1967 borders and recognize Palestinians right to return. Fair or not fair, this is the ‘will’ of the international community (the UN), so every distraction regardless whether it is extremists on the either side of the conflict or anybody else trying to create distractions will bring Palestinians a step further away from the goal of giving them a state.

Lets jump again on the bandwogen of Hamas refusing to admit the existance of Israel
Hamas has said more than once in many interviews.
Once Israel admit to the existance of a palestinian state.
We will have another say.

You see we are the weaker part here not Israelies.
Isreal is a state(whether we like it or not or Hamas like it or not).C’mon why do palestinian always have to make concessions.
Even before Hamas took power.Israel did not coopertae with Abbas.
and now they hold him in higher regard !!!! just after Hamas elections.Does not this tell you something?
I mean this is one of the reasons Hamas took power in the first place.The palestinian authority is weak,ineffective and needs a radical hardliner change.There need to be people to be clear and save the palestinians dignity from continuing condemnations and concessions.and Hamas (till now) is repeating .Accept a palestinian state and then we will have another say.
Why are the palestinians are demanded always to accept Isreal.I mean Gosh.Americans and Europeans condemn them like they are a Superpower or something.Like i previously mentioned we are the weak here.Its not like we have a choice to accept Israel existance and palestinians accept the bitter truth.

And by the way Hamas before may not nessarily be the one now.
After all.Hamas members are palestinians.and they will not be able to forse “islamic” rules on everyone cause that will give Fatah and its other million haters and cospirators a reason to
bash Hamas and outset it.I mean Hamas is in a critical condition already.forcing these rules will only make the situation more worse than it is now.Besides they have Hussam al Tawil.A christian candiatate who mentioned several times that Hamas will not be able to forse anything on anyone since they know the palestinian society is diverse.And I am sure that if Hamas did anything stupid Al tawil will be the first to attack them or condem them.and palestinian people will not forgive them since.We are very tough with eachother and critical.Not to mention America,Europe and Isreal combined criticism and attacks if they did that.

I am not jumping to conclusions but Obviously people do not respect the choice the palestians in land made and worse they are not giving Hamas an oppurtinity and time before judging and stopping the help and money.

I say wait and see.
I am very dissappointed at palestinian factions inland mostly.
You see Hamas is politically inexperienced.Hamas know this and because of this they asked for Palestinian factions to have a role in forming the goverment.They are supposed to help/Hamas asked them after all.They asked for unity and help yet they rejected under American pressure.Sad.. very sad.

you know one of the corrupted Fatah member in Tunis take more than 800 dollar and he does absolutely NOTHING but drink alchol is some bar.I mean NOTHING.Wow..Is that the kinda “goverment” you are gonna support.and there are worse examples.
Hamas is not like them.Fatah deserve what happend to them in the elections.They lost the hearts and the confidence and they need to work on that.What happened with Fatah in the elections was
JUSTICE ON EARTH.Palestinians spoke against corruption and i felt back then that Allah might forgive/help us because we made a wise decion by outsetting them.I say we becuae if i was living there
i would definiteley Not vote for them (Fatah).

again i am not saying Hamas in perfect.Its new and they have zero
experince in politics but i believe i have to give them more time.
and i wish them success for the sake of palestinians.No other reason.