Comments on: Propaganda and war

By: sergio

sergio — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 17:33:18 +0000

Dear friends: my name is Sergio, im physician from Argentina.
My point of view, as a jewish,(living here, no there) is that israeli governments (of last decades), screwed up the historical image of a jewish people suffering, and surrounded by hostiles countries.
I think that palestinian and now, lebanese suffering, is the worst image in face of the world, believe me, i can not see those horribles images of poor people dying, hurted, suffering, without havign some anger.
In my country, there is not an open antisemitism, but, these facts makes to arise in common people the anger against Israel, and against jewish too.
I think that israelian people is aware that back these war actions are powerfull countries and companies, fueling this conflict, for interests…
Friends: since this corner of the world, with a big respect i demand: STOP, please, army and Hezbollah provocations, of course.
Sergio

By: Paul

Paul — Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:15:06 +0000

Ray, you heard wrong. Arafat was not offered “everything but the kitchen sink”. He was offered a series of disconnected “Bantu-stans” that would be contantly patrolled by Israel, in other word a string of large prison camps under complete Israeli control. It was designed to fool the gullible. There is no such thing as Palestinian negotiation, though they go through the motions and live in hope. There are only Israeli / US negotiations.

By: Howard

Howard — Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:22:36 +0000

I know they are a minority but with courage and heart!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nillyo/
check this blog…showing Israelis against the war.

By: Thomas, a Dane

Thomas, a Dane — Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:09:27 +0000

Ray,

I agree that Palestinian negotiators have failed, but maybe not for the same reasons.

Israel has continuously offered shitty deals which would require Palestinians to accept loosing much more land than what is defined in the UNSC resolutions (Palestinian land beyond the internationally recognized border between Israel and Palestine).

However, instead of being smart negotiators, the Palestinian leaders have most often just gotten sour faced and refused to cooperate. A smarter approach would have been if they had replaced the traditional sulk-tactics with something-for-something tactics instead. Like “OK, we will recognize Israel if Israel will recognize Palestine along the UN mandated borders” or “OK, we will commit to making best efforts to stop suicide bombers from entering Israel if Israel commits to pull back from the occupied territories”.

The sulk-tactics have made it too easy for Israel to depict Palestine as uncooperative and unreasonable, while the something-for-something tactics would have ensured that Israel would be the one with the monkey if an agreement could not be found.

By: Thomas, a Dane

Thomas, a Dane — Tue, 25 Jul 2006 08:52:25 +0000

“Incidentally, one astounding result of the poll is that less than three or four per cent of the sample had any idea that there was an Israeli occupation in the first place.”

I just don’t know if I should laugh or cry!

Does anybody know of any survey or study comparing the media coverage of the conflict in different countries or parts of the world?

It could be interesting to see how many countries have a higher occurence of “occupied Palestinian territories” compared to “Palestinian territories” or “illegal settlers” compared to “Jewish settlers”.

I grew up with a much higher rate of “state-less Palestinians”, “occupied territories”, and “illegal settlers”, but that may just be a feature of Scandinavia which only represent some 15-20 million people!

By: Ray

Ray — Tue, 25 Jul 2006 04:41:58 +0000

Hi Sabbah: Just read your intro and wanted to correct your impression of what some Canadians think. When we see Arabs of any strype bombed or shot we react with revulsion. I don’t believe many of us think you are sub human or without Identity, history or huge justifyable concerns.(and I admit we know nothing in detail of your plight. You sound as disconnected from your government as we often feel disconnected from ours. Granted we are rich you are poor respectively..but we don’t blame our fate on others. My understanding is that Arrafat was offered everything but the kitchen sink a few years ago, but it wasn’t perfect so it was refused…I hear Isreal offer to withdraw from everywhere in exchange for peace…Sharrone withdrew settlers from the west bank unilaterally…by force…What do you guys do with this gesture..Choose to call it weakness and blow up a bus with Isrealie women and children…As it stands Now you don’t even have a credible spokesman to discuss peace or a settlement. News flash ” this world isn’t fair” But how can you be wronged for 60 plus years and not have negotiated SOMETHING better than what you have now.. you must have the most inadequate negotiators ever to be known on this earth.. We want this settled, Isreal continually says they want it settled, I don’t have to cross the US border to ask, I know the majority of Americans want this settled…No one I can imagine wants this to escalate. I find US foreign policy often an embarrasment to US citizens. Unfortunately that is a current fact of life but having said that can’t you negotiate something so much better than what you have now that you wouldn’t mind the shortfall. This is how I see it. I don’t want to see one more Arab man woman or child injured & I don’t see you as less than human…but your results suck and I hear no one from your side talking peace..All I see is you guys blowing yourselves up, I see you dance on the Isrealie flag I see you burn the US flag…I hear you rant about the US and Isreal being unfair…NOTHING YOU HAVE EVER DONE in my memory says you want peace unless the Jews are destroyed… You talk of our displaced antisematism…yet you are pledged destroy all Jews>>> I don’t get that…The US and Canada to a lesser extent support Isreal you want to destroy them…Seems only an Arab can turn that around..I don’t get that… The whole world is standing by to assist you, but you have to put out a hand without a gun or bomb in it…Does something get lost between you guys and your leaders…They are not good negotiators…Possibly you should hire some negotiators. Now I suppose you will consider this rant a personal attack or racist or unpleasantly worded, hateful etc. etc. etc. However none of the above is intended, these are my thoughts and questions.. I don’t seek to be posted on your site I would like to understand your position MINUS THE RHETORIC. Unfortunately your format has no spell check so this is it I guess. Your brother under God Ray

By: kimmy

kimmy — Tue, 25 Jul 2006 03:37:57 +0000

I have developed an extreme dislike of Zionism thanks to you.
There are two sides to every story.
Your side is the most reasonable.
With a grandmother who denounced her faith (jewish) in the early fifties because of Jewish (Zionist?) actions in the middle east, I find myself not torn but supportive of the Palestinians.
Thank you!

By: Paul

Paul — Mon, 24 Jul 2006 02:34:13 +0000

Oops! I forgot to put in the HTML! ... once again, the links are Medical Aid for Palestinians and Zaytoun Olive Oil

By: Paul

Paul — Mon, 24 Jul 2006 02:23:30 +0000

Aiyn,
From your comments and spelling, I suspect that you are from the UK. Therefore I would recommmend the UK charity “Medical Aid for Palestinians” (map-uk.org). This is a more specialised organisation than the Red Cross, and has supplied medical aid to both Palestine and Lebanon for around 25 years now. Also it is not on the list that Haitham supplied. I have been donating to this charity for some time now, and I can assure you that this is would be the best way of directly helping people who are suffering in Lebanon and Palestine at this time. Also, if you use olive oil zaytoun.org is a very good choice, as it is lovely stuff, and all of it is supplied by Palestinian farmers who really need the money!

By: Haitham

Haitham — Sun, 23 Jul 2006 16:44:28 +0000

Aiyn,

For Lebanon, your best choice for donation would be Red Cross:
http://www.ifrc.org/

and for Palestinians, you can find many links here:
http://wrmea.com/charorganizations/index.htm

By: Aiyn

Aiyn — Sun, 23 Jul 2006 13:37:44 +0000

Haitham,

There are some more picture of the Ethnic cleansing campaign being carried out by Israel. Also, Alot of people around the globe are interested to send in humanitarian aid to palestinian people and lebaneese people. Also, if possible, please do let us know how people around the world could help support resistance against israeli invasion. Monetarily or through humanitarian aid so that resistance forces can concentrate on driving away the invaders from our lands.
We are ready to share the burden from every corner of the world. Please do let us know. What means and source you could provide us. If we could collect funds, could you deliver it to palestinian and lebaneese people. from places far east and west we are together in this fight brother. Just give us a call. We shall be there for you.
http://www.halturnershow.com/IsraeliAtrocities.html

By: Aiyn

Aiyn — Sun, 23 Jul 2006 12:59:46 +0000

Haitham,

Time and again it is necessary for us to revisit and make our people realise what imperialism and occupations forces have done in the history and have been doing and are doing for their interests.

It is necessary for us to mobilise a dialogue in this regard. Also, i am carefully following the events in our lands. United Nations is feeding the enemies with information to target our protecting forces.

If that is the case, there should be no immmunity to any United Nations Officials and the Journalists of the Enemies. Isn’t it justified. When they could hit our ambulance and civilian infrastructures.

By: cfrost

cfrost — Sun, 23 Jul 2006 11:21:52 +0000

Regarding the Edward Said article. – I’ve thought for years that the Palestinians needed better public relations in the United States. To start with, they could use a few more people like Edward Said, that is, someone who understands both Palestinian/Arab and Western, particularly, American culture. Americans, for the most part, do not read anything difficult or complex, and because of the very short vacation time they get and the long distances involved, do not travel. So they get their information about the world from the same popular media sources that provide them entertainment and sell them products. The American media consumers want entertainment and the producers want advertising revenue.
Anyone who wants to get a message of any kind across to Americans must do so within those very narrow constraints. If Palestinians and Arabs want to be perceived by the average American as anything other than a religious/political fanatic/psychotic stereotype, they need better public relations or propaganda. Movies, for instance, would help. Americans lust for film and will devour any movie that makes even a little effort to cater to their tastes. Comedies, action films, tear-jerkers, cartoons, whatever. At least half of them should avoid the whole Palestinian-Israeli thing though. And that?s the point: Americans must understand that there is a nation, Palestine, and a culture, Arab, that exists outside the stereotype and outside the ?conflict?.
Here?s an example of how little exposure Americans have to the Arab world. ? Of the thousands of calendar photographs I?ve seen in homes, offices, doctor?s waiting rooms, dorm rooms, etc., I have never seen one devoted to scenery or art of Arab countries. Landscape calendars are always popular, and pictures of the American Southwest deserts are a virtual clich?shouldn?t someone publish one with scenes (and I?m sure they?re at least as spectacular) of the Sahara or Arabian Peninsula?

By: Haitham

Haitham — Sun, 23 Jul 2006 10:01:30 +0000

Aiyn,

Around a year ago, I wrote a post which I think answers some of your questions, specially the terrorism part. You are welcome to visit the following link and open discussion:

http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2005/07/13/arab-and-muslims-are-not-terrorists/

By: Aiyn

Aiyn — Sun, 23 Jul 2006 04:49:54 +0000

Dear Anon & Haitham,

Today, we need to face the reality. We are leaving in a world where media has been used as an effective propaganda tool to mobilise political objectives. As in most of the countries, it is state controlled. Does to right to speech and freedom of expression really exist. Yes, it does as long as it serves the political motives of the state. Media has demonstrated the capability that it could sell any thing, when better packaged. History is my witness. During the Irish Campaign for the freedom and independence. British Media used to portray them as trouble makers and terrorists. Same has been the case during the freedom struggle of so called india today. Or South Africa (Soweto Uprising). There are alot of other nations and leaders who wish to empower their people, there are nationalistic politicians everywhere in Britian (BNP), Labour Party, France(Right Wing), Germany ( merkel’s Party), Swiss (SVP), U.S (Republicans), India (RSS, VHP, BJP, BAJRANG DAL). The best example would be of Zimbabwe, when the whites were driven out of their lands. Britain and Europian countries started creating trouble to the african nations.

The bottom line is capitalistic society doesnt encourage any thing that is not in their interest and they do not respect any laws. Ofcourse, people of their nations rally behind these politicians for they facilitate their needs. African nations feed half of the world with their resources. But still they live below the poverty line and they have no life.

The Western nations policy is quite intimidating, demanding and threatening for the very existence of people around the globe. They enforce the laws in such a way that they have the born right to rule the whole world. Consider the case of Bush, he was merely elected by the some 52 % of the population of the world and Mr. Blair. What authority does he have and outside his electorial district that he goes no dictating to the people of the world.

Meddling with other countries policy is threatening and intimidation. Where ever they go for business they demand for new laws that suit them. Not they abide by the laws of that land constructed by their people. When criticised about the system of their own country, they end up attacking nations.

The simple question, is people around the globe should support for empowering their people and not serve the interests of western societies.

Thank heavens that people around the globe started realising and started to present the true version. And the efforts of few intellectuals like Haitham who take the pain to facilitate a free medium of expression with out bias.

Anon, the question is not about coming to your blog, or haithams blog. People like to choose and free to choose. Thanks for the invitation, This is the only blog in the whole world that is unedited and collegial. Where dialogue is very much encouraged.
To be a moderator, it is not only the trust and confidence you put in the people who express their opinions with a pen name. Considering the reputation of british media and the intentions of british community. Every individual on this planet is outright scared that they would be pulled into some trouble or monitoring by your regulatory bodies. Western societies constantly live in fear and are more controlled as prisons.

You are certainly welcome for dialogue to make this world a better place. One other thing is, western societies are so sterotypical and do not encourage pluralism. We need to dress like this, we need to sit like, we need to speak like, we need to speak this language only. They should realise that the world didnt start since 1840′s when they started coming down from trees.

Considering the western world has conqured African nations, what future their citizens have under this colonial world or a foreign power. They are better off when they make decisions and solve their own problems, as they better understand their problems. A simplest example is South Africa.

Annon and several others who invite to other blogs, to contribute. Yes, we should and we would but take a different perspective, isn’t it an approach to divert people and reduce the impact of the blog by slowly moving the readers of the blog. Thus finally killing the system.

In nature or NGC i was reading or looking at this documentary about Ostrich’s. If you havent seen, please do see it. Their behaviour looks like that of Western Societies. Where they wouldnt encourage any competitive society existing any where. And all the crowd should follow their laws and policies, that is how they stay alive and flourishing.

Any ways i touched on numerous issues. Bottom line is Haitham is doing the best job and he deserves to keep this alive. And readers and contributors of dialogue like me and you people should keep this tradition of free speach and truth should be encouraged and supported by every means, and this should not be limited to Palestine or Lebanon.

If you have problems about your media then there are approaches to bring it down. First is readability and audience can be reduced thus bring down the credibility of such papers or BBC. Mobilise alternative media such as these, Haitham has been a role model for several bloggers in the whole world.

:) Keep the dialogue running. Haitham we should have seperate discussion on FREEDOM FIGHTER AND TERRORIST – DEFINITIONS. LETS US DEFINE WHAT THESE ARE… WHO IS BEING TERRORISED AND WHO IS FREEDOM FIGHTER, THIS NEEDS TO BE DEBATED.