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	<title>Comments on: Haifa building - 1872</title>
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	<link>http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2006/12/18/haifa-building-1872/</link>
	<description>We Still Hold The Key And Deed To Our Home In Palestine. We Will Return!</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 01:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Haitham</title>
		<link>http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2006/12/18/haifa-building-1872/#comment-309802</link>
		<dc:creator>Haitham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2006 18:53:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2006/12/18/haifa-building-1872/#comment-309802</guid>
		<description>Abdul,

It is clear that you have a problem in your history lesson:

&lt;blockquote&gt;a)Haifa was a city in the Ottoman Empire in 1872.The Ottomans were Turks,not Arabs.There has NEVER been a Arab Palestinian state in the past,but maybe one day there will be an Independent Palestine in west bank existing side by side in Peace alongside the state of Israel.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Although Haifa was developed during the Ottomans, the city's name is derived from the Canaanite Arabic word  al-Hayfah meaning nearby, and during the Roman period it was known by Efa. The Crusades called Haifa by Cayphas and sometime they referred to it also by Sycaminon. During the Islamic period, Acre dominated the coastal area, and Haifa was a small town in that area. So as you see, Haifa was there even before their was anything called Israelis!

As for Palestine, maybe &lt;a href="http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story564.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;this Chronology of Palestinian history&lt;/a&gt; will help you (not to forget One Palestine comments above)


&lt;blockquote&gt;b)In Jerusalem there was a Jewish majority according to the Ottoman census in 1855.Yes,that’s 150 years ago,folks!&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;a href="http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Articles/Story873.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;This page&lt;/a&gt; was scanned from a book which was conceived and edited by Ben-Gurion himself, stating that Jews made up 12% of the total Palestinian population as of 1914. It's not only that the majority of the Jews in Palestine were not Zionists (by Ben-Gurion's own admission), but they were also not even citizens of the country since many had recently fled anti-Semitic Tsarist Russia.

As the Ottoman census records show Palestine was widely inhabited in the late 19th and early 20th century, especially in the rural areas where agriculture was the main profession. According to Justine McCarthy, an authority on the Ottoman Turks, Palestine's population in the early 19th century was 350,000, and in 1914 Palestine had a population of 657,000 Muslim Arabs, 81,000 Christian Arabs, and 59,000 Jews (including many European Jews from the first and second Aliyah).

So the Jewish population in Palestine as of 1914 were under 8% of the total population, which was much smaller than the Palestinian Christian Arab population. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;c)There are lots of Islamic States which discriminate against minorities (against the Kurds in Syria,against the Bahaii in Iran etc..),but it would not be polite to call them “apartheid states” although Pakistan did go for the apartheid version in 1947 instead of remaining in one united India.Remember.But's it's not polite to call Pakistan an "apartheid State"&lt;/blockquote&gt;

First of all, what does "Islamic States" have to do with this? We are not talking about religions here, we are talking about ethnicity. Not all Palestinians are Muslims, and not all Israelis (or let me say Zionists) are Jews. In fact, before Zionist occupied Palestine, while there was hundreds of thousands of Muslims, there was tens of thousands of Christians and Jews, and all of them were "Palestinians," got that? When Zionist came, they were disolved in the new state.

On the other hand, it is not about being polite or not, it is about being apartheid state or not. Israel state is an occupation state and can't be compared to any you mentioned. In fact, it is the worse apartheid in the history of mankind. Kurds have problems in Syria or not, Pakistan and India, etc... these are not my problems, let them handle their own problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Abdul,</p>
<p>It is clear that you have a problem in your history lesson:</p>
<blockquote><p>a)Haifa was a city in the Ottoman Empire in 1872.The Ottomans were Turks,not Arabs.There has NEVER been a Arab Palestinian state in the past,but maybe one day there will be an Independent Palestine in west bank existing side by side in Peace alongside the state of Israel.</p></blockquote>
<p>Although Haifa was developed during the Ottomans, the city&#8217;s name is derived from the Canaanite Arabic word  al-Hayfah meaning nearby, and during the Roman period it was known by Efa. The Crusades called Haifa by Cayphas and sometime they referred to it also by Sycaminon. During the Islamic period, Acre dominated the coastal area, and Haifa was a small town in that area. So as you see, Haifa was there even before their was anything called Israelis!</p>
<p>As for Palestine, maybe <a href="http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story564.html" rel="nofollow">this Chronology of Palestinian history</a> will help you (not to forget One Palestine comments above)</p>
<blockquote><p>b)In Jerusalem there was a Jewish majority according to the Ottoman census in 1855.Yes,that’s 150 years ago,folks!</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Articles/Story873.html" rel="nofollow">This page</a> was scanned from a book which was conceived and edited by Ben-Gurion himself, stating that Jews made up 12% of the total Palestinian population as of 1914. It&#8217;s not only that the majority of the Jews in Palestine were not Zionists (by Ben-Gurion&#8217;s own admission), but they were also not even citizens of the country since many had recently fled anti-Semitic Tsarist Russia.</p>
<p>As the Ottoman census records show Palestine was widely inhabited in the late 19th and early 20th century, especially in the rural areas where agriculture was the main profession. According to Justine McCarthy, an authority on the Ottoman Turks, Palestine&#8217;s population in the early 19th century was 350,000, and in 1914 Palestine had a population of 657,000 Muslim Arabs, 81,000 Christian Arabs, and 59,000 Jews (including many European Jews from the first and second Aliyah).</p>
<p>So the Jewish population in Palestine as of 1914 were under 8% of the total population, which was much smaller than the Palestinian Christian Arab population. </p>
<blockquote><p>c)There are lots of Islamic States which discriminate against minorities (against the Kurds in Syria,against the Bahaii in Iran etc..),but it would not be polite to call them “apartheid states” although Pakistan did go for the apartheid version in 1947 instead of remaining in one united India.Remember.But&#8217;s it&#8217;s not polite to call Pakistan an &#8220;apartheid State&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>First of all, what does &#8220;Islamic States&#8221; have to do with this? We are not talking about religions here, we are talking about ethnicity. Not all Palestinians are Muslims, and not all Israelis (or let me say Zionists) are Jews. In fact, before Zionist occupied Palestine, while there was hundreds of thousands of Muslims, there was tens of thousands of Christians and Jews, and all of them were &#8220;Palestinians,&#8221; got that? When Zionist came, they were disolved in the new state.</p>
<p>On the other hand, it is not about being polite or not, it is about being apartheid state or not. Israel state is an occupation state and can&#8217;t be compared to any you mentioned. In fact, it is the worse apartheid in the history of mankind. Kurds have problems in Syria or not, Pakistan and India, etc&#8230; these are not my problems, let them handle their own problems.</p>
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		<title>By: One Palestine</title>
		<link>http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2006/12/18/haifa-building-1872/#comment-309773</link>
		<dc:creator>One Palestine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2006 14:46:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2006/12/18/haifa-building-1872/#comment-309773</guid>
		<description>correction: 
when I said three centuries, I meant three millennia</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>correction:<br />
when I said three centuries, I meant three millennia</p>
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		<title>By: One Palestine</title>
		<link>http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2006/12/18/haifa-building-1872/#comment-309769</link>
		<dc:creator>One Palestine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2006 13:44:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2006/12/18/haifa-building-1872/#comment-309769</guid>
		<description>An observation: The United Monarchy existed for one hundred twenty years. The Kingdom of Israel existed for two hundred ten years. The State of Israel has existed for 58 years. Sum total is 388 years, with huge gaps between. The Canaanites still have descendants living on the ground, and they call themselves Palestinians. That's 6,006 years of habitation.

Food for thought.

(thanks to Wikipedia for filling the gaps)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An observation: The United Monarchy existed for one hundred twenty years. The Kingdom of Israel existed for two hundred ten years. The State of Israel has existed for 58 years. Sum total is 388 years, with huge gaps between. The Canaanites still have descendants living on the ground, and they call themselves Palestinians. That&#8217;s 6,006 years of habitation.</p>
<p>Food for thought.</p>
<p>(thanks to Wikipedia for filling the gaps)</p>
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		<title>By: One Palestine</title>
		<link>http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2006/12/18/haifa-building-1872/#comment-309767</link>
		<dc:creator>One Palestine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2006 13:21:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2006/12/18/haifa-building-1872/#comment-309767</guid>
		<description>For the record:

Seems that there were inhabitants of this "land without a people" for at least three centuries prior to the arrival of the Israelites. Even Abraham, the Israelite patriarch, is thought to have lived somewhere between 2000 and 1500 BCE. That's still 2000 years after the Canaanites settled Jericho in 4000 BCE. Jaffa's port has been inhabited since the Bronze Age (3500 - 1200 BCE). Rafah in Gaza has been inhabited since at least 1300 BCE, when it was mentioned in an Egyptian inscription. The Philistines occupied Canaan ca. 1180 to 1150 BC. 

The United Monarchy (United Kingdom of Israel and Judah or just Kingdom of Israel) refers to a period in the History of ancient Israel and Judah lasting from approximately 1050 BCE until about 930 BCE. The Kingdom of Israel is one of the successor states to the older United Monarchy (also often called the 'Kingdom of Israel'). It existed from roughly 930s BCE until about 720s BCE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the record:</p>
<p>Seems that there were inhabitants of this &#8220;land without a people&#8221; for at least three centuries prior to the arrival of the Israelites. Even Abraham, the Israelite patriarch, is thought to have lived somewhere between 2000 and 1500 BCE. That&#8217;s still 2000 years after the Canaanites settled Jericho in 4000 BCE. Jaffa&#8217;s port has been inhabited since the Bronze Age (3500 - 1200 BCE). Rafah in Gaza has been inhabited since at least 1300 BCE, when it was mentioned in an Egyptian inscription. The Philistines occupied Canaan ca. 1180 to 1150 BC. </p>
<p>The United Monarchy (United Kingdom of Israel and Judah or just Kingdom of Israel) refers to a period in the History of ancient Israel and Judah lasting from approximately 1050 BCE until about 930 BCE. The Kingdom of Israel is one of the successor states to the older United Monarchy (also often called the &#8216;Kingdom of Israel&#8217;). It existed from roughly 930s BCE until about 720s BCE.</p>
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		<title>By: Abdul</title>
		<link>http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2006/12/18/haifa-building-1872/#comment-309750</link>
		<dc:creator>Abdul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2006 10:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>"built year 1872. Yes, you read it correct, Haifa is a Palestinian city"

Some info:
a)Haifa was a city in the Ottoman Empire in 1872.The Ottomans were Turks,not Arabs.There has NEVER been a Arab Palestinian state in the past,but maybe one day there will be an Independent Palestine in west bank existing side by side in Peace alongside the state of Israel.
b)In Jerusalem there was a Jewish majority according to the Ottoman census in 1855.Yes,that's 150 years ago,folks!
c)There are lots of Islamic States which discriminate against minorities (against the Kurds in Syria,against the Bahaii in Iran etc..),but it would not be polite to call them "apartheid states" although Pakistan did go for the apartheid version in 1947 instead of remaining in one united India.Remember.But's it's not polite to call Pakistan an "apartheid State"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;built year 1872. Yes, you read it correct, Haifa is a Palestinian city&#8221;</p>
<p>Some info:<br />
a)Haifa was a city in the Ottoman Empire in 1872.The Ottomans were Turks,not Arabs.There has NEVER been a Arab Palestinian state in the past,but maybe one day there will be an Independent Palestine in west bank existing side by side in Peace alongside the state of Israel.<br />
b)In Jerusalem there was a Jewish majority according to the Ottoman census in 1855.Yes,that&#8217;s 150 years ago,folks!<br />
c)There are lots of Islamic States which discriminate against minorities (against the Kurds in Syria,against the Bahaii in Iran etc..),but it would not be polite to call them &#8220;apartheid states&#8221; although Pakistan did go for the apartheid version in 1947 instead of remaining in one united India.Remember.But&#8217;s it&#8217;s not polite to call Pakistan an &#8220;apartheid State&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Firas</title>
		<link>http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2006/12/18/haifa-building-1872/#comment-309700</link>
		<dc:creator>Firas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Dec 2006 19:34:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2006/12/18/haifa-building-1872/#comment-309700</guid>
		<description>The Zionist story goes like this:
Jews established Israel 2000 years ago, they got dispersed, now they are back. All these lost years the land was empty!
But the answer to this claim is  that from year 132AD(When the Jewish rule over Southern Palestine was over) there have been a series of events which brings you to the conclusion that this land was not empty at all, and there exists a unique Palestinian identity, and it differs from neighboring countries.

I mean if it was an empty land for 2000 years why all these events took place?

CLAIM: - [70 to 1914] AD : Empty land , no cities, no established communities, influx of Arabs immigrants starts after  European Jews have "made the desert bloom"

FACTS:
-[70-135] AD The Great Jewish revolt , Christians spreading their message all over the world

-[324] AD Byzantine reign

-[638] AD Arabic (Muslims) occupation

-[1100] AD Catholic Church (Crusaders) occupation

-[1517] AD Ottoman occupation

-[1917] AD British occupation

Why would these nations bother occupying an empty land?

How old are the churches in Palestine? They go way back to Jesus times. How old is the Dome of the Rock? If it was an empty land wouldn't it fall because of lack of maintenance? 
Someone should be admitting their mistake and make an apology for dispersing (directly and indirectly) thousands of people. Peace can't be achieved unless both sides admit of the atrocities they brought upon each others and lately upon themselves (Palestinian infighting, lousy scum)!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Zionist story goes like this:<br />
Jews established Israel 2000 years ago, they got dispersed, now they are back. All these lost years the land was empty!<br />
But the answer to this claim is  that from year 132AD(When the Jewish rule over Southern Palestine was over) there have been a series of events which brings you to the conclusion that this land was not empty at all, and there exists a unique Palestinian identity, and it differs from neighboring countries.</p>
<p>I mean if it was an empty land for 2000 years why all these events took place?</p>
<p>CLAIM: - [70 to 1914] AD : Empty land , no cities, no established communities, influx of Arabs immigrants starts after  European Jews have &#8220;made the desert bloom&#8221;</p>
<p>FACTS:<br />
-[70-135] AD The Great Jewish revolt , Christians spreading their message all over the world</p>
<p>-[324] AD Byzantine reign</p>
<p>-[638] AD Arabic (Muslims) occupation</p>
<p>-[1100] AD Catholic Church (Crusaders) occupation</p>
<p>-[1517] AD Ottoman occupation</p>
<p>-[1917] AD British occupation</p>
<p>Why would these nations bother occupying an empty land?</p>
<p>How old are the churches in Palestine? They go way back to Jesus times. How old is the Dome of the Rock? If it was an empty land wouldn&#8217;t it fall because of lack of maintenance?<br />
Someone should be admitting their mistake and make an apology for dispersing (directly and indirectly) thousands of people. Peace can&#8217;t be achieved unless both sides admit of the atrocities they brought upon each others and lately upon themselves (Palestinian infighting, lousy scum)!</p>
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