One more brain fart by Saudi Mutaween:
Saudi Arabian religious police call for sex-segregated sidewalks – Saudi Arabia’s religious police are insisting that authorities of Medina, one of Islam’s holiest cities, should build separate sidewalks for women, the Kuwaiti Al-Qabas newspaper said Friday.
The country’s Committee for the Propagation of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice (CPVPV), tasked with enforcing Sharia law, believes men and women should not be allowed to mix on the streets of the Islam’s second holiest place, where the Prophet Muhammad is buried.
The clerical police, or Mutaween, are authorized to arrest unrelated men and women caught socializing, anyone suspected of being homosexual or a prostitute, and to enforce Islamic dress codes.
The Mutaween enforce Islamic female dress codes, ordering women to wear headscarves and abayas, long black dresses covering the whole body except for face, hands and feet. Women are not allowed to leave their houses without their husbands or immediate male relatives.
Saudi women are also not allowed to ride a bicycle or drive a car, because if the vehicle breaks down, a woman might have to talk to an unknown male.
The police widely apply corporal punishment, including flogging, to punish suspected offenders.
One of the most widely criticized incidents, involving women rights abuse, occurred on March 11, 2002, when schoolgirls were prevented from escaping a burning school in Mecca, because they were not wearing headscarves and abayas. Fifteen girls died and 50 were injured as a result.
I’m just wondering when will these heavenly angles called “Mutaween” will disappear?!
Did prophet Mohammed ordered to have two sidewalks; one for men, another for women? It’s ironic to think of having a ‘women sidewalks’… I mean, how will they mark them? Paint them in pink? Maybe black to match black abayas and hope that women walking there will become invisible. For God sake, someone with courage should stop this stupidity and send these Mutaween to some true Islamic pre-school and teach them true/basic Islam rules.
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On the other hand, for few weeks now, a group of Saudi women are back in the news with their everlasting “Car Driving” rights. A Saudi writer and human rights activist described it well when she said: “Cats and dogs in the developed world have more rights than Arab women,” but to be more accurate she should have said “Cats and dogs in the developed world have more rights than SAUDI ARABIA women,” for I belive that women in the Arab world, but Saudi, enjoys most of their rights -and sometimes better rights- than many in the ‘developed world’. This lady (or group of ladies) is more interested in driving a car than having the right to breath clean air and live normally. But for them it is “something is better than nothing”:
Saudi Women Petitioning Govt for Driving Rights – “We demand that the right of women to drive is given back to us,” says the petition. “It’s a right that was enjoyed by our mothers and grandmothers in complete freedom to (utilize) the means of transportation in those times.”
The issue has been a matter of heated debate for many years. In 1990 a group of middle class women were arrested when they staged driving protests. The ban comes from a strict interpretation of the woman’s need to be with a legal guardian (a mahram) in public. While this is claimed to be another “Islamic” taboo, but the fact it is not:
“Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Abdullah said previously that it is not a political issue, it is a social one, and that the government does not object (to women driving).”
…which I believe is true. It is not about politics or religion, but a social matter. Therefore, I personally believe that “Saudi Women Rights Movement” (whoever that be) lacks strategic planning to win back women rights in Saudi. Driving a car is one of the rights, however is not the most critical but for these women who can afford to have a car. What about the “right to live normally”? C’mon, you can’t even walk freely in the street… Ladies, you have a hell of a job to educate your society to accept you as an “equal” human being. While I agree that you should have the right to drive a car, however, I believe that will bring you more trouble than you wish and will halt any further improvement in winning more rights. What about the new “women sidewalks” that you have to march on? What about education, marriage, traveling, shopping, work, etc…
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The Quran is like the Bible. It is open to interpretation.
Who is right?
The people in power.
It is sad that the people in control of religion use it to control people.
Rather than letting the religion control the powers.
Too many people in power use religion to keep them in power.
Why can’t we let people let religion control them and powers be relegated to them as long as they follow the true religion?
This will never end my friend … I know this is crasy …
I have full respect for our saudi brothers but unfortunately some of the rules governing that country are pretty stone-age…
Well, now this subject is an INTERESTING one!! And complex also. Having lived in KSA many moons ago and seeing NO advancement in the rights of women in the 27 years since I have to ask myself why and the answer is really quite simple, it’s because there is a general acceptance and even cultural defense of these practices. Since KSA is the ultimate male-dominated society, one has to look to the men’s opinions on this matter, which DO vary. With the lovely Mutaween angels it is a given, women must be controlled with the rules in place, on the other hand, with the men on the other end of the spectrum there is simply NO concerted effort on their part, those who SHOULD be speaking out against this, for change. If challenged on some of the issues, these “modern men” will mutter, “No no, this is not right, these laws are stupid, we don’t feel this is right, but it takes time for these things, and our women are treated well, no no,” grumble, grumble, mutter mutter, errrrrrr and then the subject is changed. In other words, END OF SUBJECT. On other subjects such as the restrictions on where women can work, most will point to women who ARE in working positions and say, “Our women work, they are educated” (which MANY are)These same men usually accept fully the working restrictions and when not, once again will mutter the mantra, “It takes time for these things to change”
Last weekend I attended the screening of a film here in LA titled “Saudis in America” http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=151757211 It’s a documentary about a Saudi family who lives here in the US, father Saudi, mother German, and they go back an forth as do many bi-cultural families. The views of the young women in this film were of particular interest. One daughter related the fact that women in KSA CAN if they want to, simply live the life of a housewife-Saudi style-and choose if they want-to do nothing much at all that Western cultures-(or for that matter personally I add-those in other Middle Eastern countries), would consider normal. As in all cultures, much has to do with socio-ecomomic status, but at the end of the day, the Saudi culture does not have as a given that women participate BECAUSE it is the ultimate male-dominated society.
On the issue of driving, one daughter boasted that she could just crawl in the back of the car and be driven everywhere and not have to worry about it. This is a young woman who DOES drive here in the States. It’s a funny thing, when Saudi women go outside to live for any amount of time, MANY (again depending on socio-economic status and degree of religious doctrine) learn to drive and DO drive. But when they return home, MOST just accept the fact they will depend on a driver. (If you’ve ever had to wait on a driver this can be EXTREMELY frustrating)
At the end of the day, what can I as a foreigner who lived there for several years say? My personal belief on this matter is that the responsibilty for improving this situation should be put in the laps of the highly educated males in KSA. No more passing the buck on this, no more muttering that it will take time for changes to be made. It is up to YOU who have been educated outside the country-those of you who see women in your NEIGHBORING countries enjoy MANY more rights and have seen that women (and I am NOT referring to the things which are completely antithetical to Middle Eastern culture)are FULLY capable of participating in society in MEANINGFUL ways, to STEP UP TO THE PLATE ON THIS ISSUE. No more blaming the Mutaween, it is YOUR silence on this issue which has made it go on so long. Look to your wives and daughters and respect YOURSELVES their full potential and DEMAND that they be allowed to live it fully.
lol! This is so so so crazy!
A little bit of humour.
My wife is 6′ tall.
I am 5’10″ and I am lying.
I have gone through the toilet seat routeen (I know it is spelled wrong). Toilet seat DOWN!
Two daughters and two female cats. I have always been in the minority.
We are not equal!
I have my strong points. She has hers!
We work together with our strong points to make a better team.
We will never be equal, but we will always work together to be equal in our eyes. We support each other. No question who is in control.
She is and deserves to be! I spend too much time working and her control keeps me in check.
Still, I will always have to look up to her.
WHO CARES!
If it wasn’t for my wife, I wouldn’t be where I am today!
Sex-segregated sidewalks!? Are they serious!? What are they so worried about?
Actually, the sex-segregated sidewalks sound good when I think back to all the gropes and grabs I got as a CHILD, TEENAGER, and WOMAN from various perverts! But I would much prefer the guys learn how to control themselves rather than have laws to govern our every move (literally). As long as the men are brought up to have a certain set of beliefs about women and how they “need” to be treated, no real progress will be made.
“Sex-segregated sidewalks!? Are they serious!? What are they so worried about?”
They fear their own flaws in character, abstemiousness and decency – and rather than face them they shuffle women away so that they can pretend the problem was the women’s presence instead. In short, if you are afraid that you are so clumsy that you will sting yourself on a thorn, pretend the rose is unreliable and careless, then you cut the thorns off or hide it in a separate greenhouse.
I am surrounded by lightly clad women every day but I suffer neither from distracting thoughts that hinder my work and studies nor a tendency to crude talk or disrespect of women in any way. I believe this achievement of balance can be found via good parenting, sound culture and appraisal of individuality, not the cowardly oppression the Mutawenn have to resort to.
I find this discussion very sad.
I have been married for 34+ years.
My wife is my second limb.
When women can’t drive or vote I am agitated.
Do you think I can tell my wife that she can’t drive?
Men and Women are equal.
The scary part is that women are smarter than us males.
Yeah. We fix things.
They control things.
Bottom line from a male.
Thank God for women.
Well here’s what happened on a sidewalk in Khobar on Tuesday when two Saudi females decided to “take matters into their own hands” http://www.asharqalawsat.com/english/news.asp?section=1&id=10309
Seems there is ALOT of built up frustration going on to come to this!!
Thank you Robin.
I now realize that the extreme on both sides are wrong.
Life is nothing but a glimpse of reality. From both sides.
So….
Sidewalks next. How bout a whole city-and surrounding land, for women only and only the women allow in the ‘enlightened males’ who can supposedly ‘control themselves’. Hey that can prove once and for all women can do it better. Wouldn’t that outcome be interesting.
BTW they aren’t allowed to use golf carts or bicycles, how bout tricycles, segways, pack animals w/ or w/out carts/carriages/coaches, skateboards or roller skates-what’s the supposed ‘rules’ on these?
To get around the requirement for virtuous Saudi women to talk to Saudi men of dubious virtue, it is obvious that Saudi Arabia needs female mechanics, and tow truck drivers, just as it needs female gynocologists.
ok well ,i think we should not say anything bad on mutaween . really islam is a very good religon and really it is the best and an accurate realigon . isalm has given the real rights to women and we should not complain, and it does not say that women can not participate in anything.she can but not every thing and this is in the favour of women.if we understand it right we really will enjoy it…remember that women are female not male .i mean we can not do anything like the males .THIS IS IN FEMALES FAVOUR . REALLY ISLAM IS NOT LIKE YOU THINK .IT IS BETTER ONLY IF YOU UNDERSTAND IT RIGHT……….
saso,
No one is saying that Islam as a religion is wrong, but ‘some’ people who claim that they are ruling and practicing by Islam are wrong. Unfortunately some of these are powerful enough to control others life.
‘Unfortunately some of these are powerful enough to control others life.
AND unfortunately nearly all religions do this.’-per the previous comment.
If the founders of the great religions of the world came back today they would be apalled and what their religion has morphed into.
They would say ‘This is NOT what I preached’.
all i can say is that that country is crazy and the religious police r even more crazier
I gues saudi are learning from history and from reality. all of could tell what is happeing in all sociaties where both sex are mixed everywher!! don’t we hear now some countries like Japan havde introduced new rule for transportation (like buses, mitros)to identiry certain places for women and anoterh for men. and why is that.. just simpley ask any gilr or women…. let us all talk about the reality. women are diamond, we should all protect them.
As far as I know Japan doesn’t sex segregate their public transport, there would be NO WAY it could, it’s so crowded and rush hour, they would have to build a whole other transit system to accomodate them, there’s no money and no room, they are not hung up on ‘unclean unvirtous thoughts’, it’s a whole other buddhist thought which is in a way something that islam could learn a thing or two from (dare I criticize islam, well JUST GET OVER IT!-for a religion to remain vital, it needs to deal with it-and NOT bY just saying ‘pray harder and be more pious’-in ANY religion THAT HAS NEVER WORKED!!! but I digress). Here’s what you have in at least the Tokyo metro area and extensive public transport system and ONEROUS requirements for private auto ownership-you MUST have a space for offstreet parking, and your vehicle must undergo extensive inspection every few years, down to the condition of the body and interior, that’s why you see almost NO junker jalopy cars in Japan.
Japan is a small (about the size of Montana) with a population about 5 times the state of Calif.-it’s quite densely populated. Residential lots are small and houses are small so finding space for offstreet parking is a challenge. If you care to google any of this feel free, especially if it’s a challenge in those countries that have proxy servers that censor content. You can bet it’ll censor this google ‘The World Inside’ a 1970′s science fiction novel by Robert Silvberg-the world that way is rather shocking-no need for personal vehicles, war, starvation and poverty (and birth control) are eliminated.
to jl:
valid criticism of saudi policy, however, i don’t think this is something that “islam has to learn.” I don’t think the different policy’s have anything to do with buddhism or islam, they are just cultural differences (differences that Saudis need to address).
But this is a very poignant article, and the fetid state of womens rights in the arab world (a cultural thing which existed before the spread of islam) is something that we, as muslims, should be ashamed of.
whatever
Dear Haitham,
I’m a student studying Middle Eastern gender relations in the U.S.A. and I found your post to be of particular interest. Negative and inaccurate stereotypes of Middle Eastern women are extremely prevalent within western media, and I feel as though it is from extreme examples such as this that fuel this fire. Such segregation is unheard of in the culture I’m familiar with, and quite frankly I’m a little appalled. Stories such as this paint an image of Middle Eastern women as being in need of “savingâ€, and leads some I know to adopt a very orientalist viewpoint. Do you believe that examples such as this have created a serious internal debate over the koranic law and women’s rights within a contemporary middle east? If so, what is your opinion on this issue? I know that there is certainly an external debate over these issues, but I’m interested to now what an insider’s opinion might be.
Thanks,
Grant