Written by Haitham Sabbah on 06. December 2007, 2055hrs // Part of Haitham Sabbah's adventure in Blogging, Sabbah // Other posts by Haitham Sabbah
To my surprise, I just came to know that my blog is nominated for the Fourth Annual Brass Crescent Awards 2007. Polls close Friday, December 14!
Vote for Sabbah! Go to “BEST MIDEAST/CENTRAL ASIAN BLOG” section and give me a tip 
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Do you like - Vote for Sabbah! - 
December 6th, 2007 at 9:19 pm
It should read _the most popular_ ME blog … not _one of the most popular_! Who are they kidding?
I was checking out some of the other blog on that page yesterday, but it would take years to read all those blogs in order to make an informed choice in the other categories. I am ashamed to admit don’t recognize any of the other bloggers there.
Can anyone give me a sample ballot for a strait party vote on the Sabbah ticket?
December 6th, 2007 at 9:34 pm
Done! Good luck! =)
December 6th, 2007 at 9:47 pm
That was EASY in more ways than one,iow, DONE:)
December 7th, 2007 at 12:29 am
You got my vote
December 7th, 2007 at 12:37 am
“Vote for Sabbah?” I already did. And I voted for Rolled Up Trousers. The only other one I recognised was Juan Cole. I didn’t vote for that, not because it was in the same category as mine, but because I find it a bit too dry.
Anyway, good luck Sabbah!
December 7th, 2007 at 1:28 am
Good luck Haitham
December 7th, 2007 at 5:27 am
Done for a great friend.
December 7th, 2007 at 10:25 am
You got my vote Muwafak and be sure to post about it if you win :P.
salaam
December 7th, 2007 at 12:14 pm
Thank you all for your kindness
Even if I don’t win, it is great enough to have friends like you all.
December 7th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
Well Done Haitham , you deserve it ! Bravo.
I have discovered your Blog during the Last war on lebanon , when you posted those ugly Pictures of Israeli school girls sending Messages on Missiles to be shelled on Lebanon . since that day I liked your blog . You have my vote anytime !!
December 7th, 2007 at 1:29 pm
Done
December 7th, 2007 at 1:34 pm
Thank you ladies, really appreciate it
December 7th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
We already talked privately about this, Haitham, but just for the record, while your blog is by far the best and most complete and most innovative Middle East blog, I felt that the categories were just mad and some other things were not good.
For instance, why was Laila in your category, when the specific angle of her blog is in fact, being a woman?! It should have been in the Woman’s Voices category, and not general. This forced me to make a choice of two of the blogs I love the most, and not to mention, between two friends. I didn’t like that. It’s like asking us to choose which child we like best…. Also, If Mark Elf is on this list, it makes it all quite dubios. Yes, Elf, who writes vulgar letters to people because they don’t censor Gilad Atzmon, this Elf, who attacks me with such vitriol and calls my blog a sewer - not that he reads it, he keeps reminding everyone, but he KNOWS it’s a sewer and has to smear it and me at every opportunity he can (Oh, not to mention that he doesn’t allow me to speak for myself, I can just get smeared and called all kinds of names). The same Elf that thinks it’s really a big mistake that Palestinians voted for Hamas, because Islamic parties are really a no-no… I won’t go on with Elf, but you get the picture… is considered to be in one of the “friends” categories as well as Lisa Goldman, whose On The Face is an Aliyah blog that only respects those who think that the Palestinians have got to accept the Law of Return and forget the Right of Return… Is this a way to be “friends” to Muslims?
Why was Steve’s site Desert Peace not in this category? His site is truly a site that respects and loves the diversity, and that puts the rights of Palestinians before his own rights! This is love and friendship! I think it would have won hands down, it is a blog that is truly a light in a long, dark tunnel.
At any rate, I did vote for your site, since it deserves all the kudos it can get, but this contest is a bit “odd” and I’d love to see the criteria for these categories.
December 7th, 2007 at 7:23 pm
Mary,
I agree with you. I don’t know on what bases the selections of the blogs were made and distributed among these categories. It’s not fair, but from my experience, I’ve never come across a blog award contest which was fair in selections for finalist. It is just impossible to satisfy all tastes and mistakes are always made (intentional or unintentional).
December 7th, 2007 at 9:10 pm
If you didn’t hear of it already, I suggest you talk a look at “Jihad of Umar”, which is nominated for “Best blog”. Very worth reading!
December 7th, 2007 at 9:45 pm
I had already voted for you, Haitham.
(I agree with thecutter from PeacePalestine on the categories. Also, I was more than a little surprised to see Mark Elf’s blog on the list. Fine as it is, it is after all really just another J-blog. Oh well, at least it got him to come over here and put in a plug for himself.)
December 7th, 2007 at 11:16 pm
Know what is so ironic? That Fatima discovered this blog due to the discovery Haitham made of the Israeli school girls who wrote “Messages on Missiles” that were on their way to wreak destruction upon the people of Lebanon. And, it was the SAME Lisa of On the Face who defended those girls, tried to pretend that Haitham was pulling a fast one, and so on. One can look the other way and say that when she repeated on camera words that were offensive to the sensibilities of people (well, she doesn’t know Persian, so she couldn’t have known her friend was making her say these things, friends usually don’t do such mean tricks), one can even forgive that she is unable to respond to direct questions about how she came up with the story of the “assassination of the Palestinian collaborator”, (if it was true is anyone’s guess, although that too stunk pretty much once one looked slightly under the surface). Lisa is there to promote herself as a sort of “new breed of Jews who make Aliyah”, and probably is paid pretty well to do it too. A group of people (or a person) who looks through blogs could have let all of this pass without really noticing it. But, reading her defence of the girls who thought (like probably many of their friends and family) that dropping bombs on civilians is ok, actually, it is something to feel patriotic about, is a huge missight.
December 8th, 2007 at 1:49 am
Sorry to get into a dispute with someone else on your site Haitham but just for the record I’d like to say that I thought the Palestinians voting for Hamas was a marvellous demonstration of the Palestinian people’s steadfastness in the face of zionist aggression and oppression. The rest of Mary’s post was too gossipy to engage with but it’s wide of the mark too. Also, I did not come here to promote my blog. If that was the case I’d be commenting on blogs all over the place and I very rarely do. A glance around the internet will show that I do nothing in the way of self-promotion and I didn’t even vote for myself in the category I am in.
By the way, the category my blog is in is “Which blog written by a non-Muslim is most respectful of Islam and seeks genuine dialogue with Muslims?” I don’t see how this has anything to do with anything I may (or may not) have said about Mary Rizzo and Gilad Atzmon since neither are Muslims as far as I know.
I think I am included in that category because I have always defended MPACUK against attacks from their zionist detractors and I have promoted their events. I am also on record many times applauding the victory of Hamas in Palestine and of Hizbullah against Israel last year (and next probably).
I didn’t vote for myself because mine, unlike yours, is such a simple blog.
I came here to wish you well and I meant it. I don’t think anyone has any reason to doubt my word on that or anything else.
December 8th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
Elf, I think people can see through you. I actually know that they do. And, if you have particular problems with non-Muslims being respectful towards Muslims, you might do well to suggest to your friend Tony, who calls a Muslim friend of mine a “Quisling” because my friend was getting extremely sick and tired of your smear campaigns against Gilad, myself, FTP and any other person who is on record of disagreeing with you. But, that’s Tony, that’s not you. Your style is to call someone a wanker.
Oh, you seek genuine dialogue? Why is it then that so many people (Muslims included) come to my blog to say that innocent comments they have left on yours have been banned and they have been insulted? That is not genuine dialogue.
I believe the information on Lisa is far from gossip, Elf. It is very important that people are aware of the interests behind the bloggers, and how they promote themselves as seeking dialogue and peace, but they actually seek to impose their worldview or to intimidate.
December 8th, 2007 at 6:09 pm
I wasn’t referring to “Lisa.” I have never heard of her before. I was referring to that FTP nonsense. But since you have drawn me into this, FTP aka Roy Bard wrote to a lot of people who had been copied into an email by Tony Greenstein. FTP (Roy Bard) was accusing us all of “working as a group.” He claimed that his email was “off list,” in other words, private. I was drunk at the time and I replied angrily and swore at him at least three times. I have to say I stand by what I said but if I hadn’t have been drunk I would have simply ignored his email. He then published the “off list” email as if I had written to him at Tony’s request and not in reply to what he (Roy Bard/FTP) had written. I don’t know how you can make such a long saga out of one drunken email replying to whole load of conspiratorial nonsense from someone trying their damnedest to be anonymous (ie Roy Bard/FTP).
I started moderating my blog because I got a lot of harassment from zionists from the Engage website and other places, some of whom used bogus ID to pretend to be neo-nazis “supporting” the Palestinian cause. Moderating isn’t an exact science. Moderators, including myself, get it wrong from time to time. It’s a sad fact that neo-nazis and other racists try to use the Palestinian cause to further their own poisonous doctrines that I find morally and politically indistinguishable from zionism. If I suspect that is happening on my blog I tend not to allow the comments through. The reason I haven’t allowed yours through is because you seem to wish to pursue a personal vendetta against Tony Greenstein. It wastes too much time and space (as people can presumably see here). I have also banned Tony’s comments when he has seemed to be doing the same thing to you. I don’t get many hits (under 300 a day) or many comments so I’m not banning comments willy-nilly and I am certainly not aware of banning any from people I know to be Muslim. If any one of these disgruntled commentors are reading this then they should try emailing me or commenting again. I don’t block comments that I believe are submitted in good faith and I don’t allow racism unless I think it serves to expose the commentor.
I too have issues with leftists who appear to be trying to impose a world view on others. It looks like bad faith when they make demands for a socialist Palestine or a this Palestine or a that Palestine, unless its a Palestine for all of its people. But it has to be recognised that the imposition of world views is not just the preserve of the left. There are right wing extremists trying to hook their own thing on to the Palestinian cause. Does anyone really believe that the Ku Klux Klan has principled objections to the last of the colonial settler states?
Myself, I simply want the liberation of Palestine from zionist rule and the right of the Palestinians to return. I don’t have strong opinions on other social or economic issues, though I am learning fast I hope.
Now Mary, you clearly don’t agree with me on many things, but the attacks on my integrity and good intentions here are wholly unjustified. I came here to wish Haitham well and that should have been an end to it. Now again I apologise to Haitham for his blog being used in this way and again I wish you, Haitham, success in the poll.
Cheers.
December 8th, 2007 at 7:08 pm
Mark,
Thank you for your wishes and same to you too.
I have no problem if you and Mary like to clear up things here for the good of everyone.
December 8th, 2007 at 7:48 pm
I give you my vote. I have been reading your blogg for a long time now. I think it is outstanding. I live in Sweden and my husband is Palestinier. May be you are relative to him because his family name is Sabbah and they are Palestine refugees from Ein Karem,Palestine now living in Amman Jordan. My husband is on the net every day/night talking to palestinian friends all over the world and I share his suffering for the palestinian issue. It’s so sad what is happening there and the world don’t care. Sorry about my bad english but I hope you understand anyway.
Love and Peace
Ulla
December 8th, 2007 at 8:04 pm
Thank you Ulla for your kindness. I’m honored to know you and your husband. We are definitely relatives because all Sabbahs’ family members in Palestine have the same roots (even the Christian part of it).
Please keep in touch…You can always contact me offline by email or via the contact form:
http://sabbah.biz/mt/contact/
December 9th, 2007 at 12:08 am
Elf, quit being so false. Your integrity (or lack thereof) is clearly demonstrated especially in the comments feature you host, and the way you use it as a bulletin board to smear and attack others who you decide are your enemies, never allowing them the “liberty” to respond! You are rude to the bone, drunk or not, and FTP did NOT merit that horrible kind of abuse for exercising his power to decide for himself what to do as an editor!!! You can bully people around, but you know, nothing dies on internet, it’s there especially if it is ugly, so always think first.
You once claimed you banned because of “racist” remarks. I have never made any, so this is a lie. It is all part of your individual vendetta. Needless to say, your friends come to freely comment on my blog, no one is banned, deleted, or even insulted by the hostess! Rarely by the other commenters, who actually engage in discussion, which is something that comments are supposed to be there for.
You delete anything and everything that I post, making sure you insult me profusely for a while, and then go on and on and encourage the other commenters who are in the same bootcamp to continue in the abuse. You call my blog a sewer, and yes, having to keep track of the gatekeeping, of the abuse you and your cronies mete out to others sure is dirty work, but somebody has to do it. Your tactics are contrary to civil discourse. Always.
Haitham knows me fairly well, and he knows better than probably anyone what my tolerance to falseness and fake “unity” is, namely zero. I can’t say I get them all right, but I have a bullshit detector that singles out when people are acting like buddies, or like fair and decent people, but are really out for something else. And for you, Elf, to wonder at if a commenter is Muslim or not is just another one of those things that makes me wonder about you. I of course KNOW that several Muslims got banned by you, they told me so. I also know one got called a Quisling because he dared to think your abuse of me and Gilad was vulgar and wrong, and that your and Tony Greenstein’s assessment of us, and attempts to defame and “distance us” from our campaigning work was very negative. And anyway, Elf, even those who are not Muslims, like myself, FTP, Knuckles, Sarah and others who have only addressed the attacks get insulted violently should not need the racial profile either. You should try that line of reasoning with the board that has the poll, not here, it just sounds stupid. I’m just pointing out the way you act, and find it more than slightly ironic. Calling me an anti-semite, my blog a sewer, giving me a sexist putdown now and then are simply not kosher, in any religion.
December 9th, 2007 at 2:24 am
I’m weary of this now Mary. This FTP/Roy Bard character falsely accused me and others of “working as a group” to get something of Atzmon’s removed from the Indymedia UK site. I don’t care what appears on Indymedia UK and I’ve made that clear on my own blog. He pretended in his email to be writing to us “off list” and yet he published my reply and the one other reply that he got. I don’t see how my reply could be construed as bullying since I was responding to a false allegation. I also don’t see how my responding in my own name was somehow morally more reprehensible than someone making false allegations anonymously (as Roy Bard hoped he was) against me.
Maybe your blog has changed somewhat but you were not always as congenial a host as you claim. People who disagree with you did suffer quite a lot of abuse in both the comments and the posts. In fact there were a few posts that reminded me of the nazi rag, Der Sturmer, and the comments to them that had me calling your site a sewer, though I have never used your gender as the basis for insulting you. That’s not to say I have never insulted you. I have, but never in sexist terms. Au contraire, for all your “shock, horror” at my calling your Roy Bard/FTP a wanker, I thought it was one of your friends (Sarah) who described my home as my “Dagenham wankpit” after I caught her using fake ID to pretend to support me and Israel (an impossible position).
I am not a follower of your blog but I know of at least two occasions when it has been used to doctor what Michael Rosen has written in order to smear him. The first was when he said that he thought that nothing, not even elections, should ever be forced on the Palestinian people by outside forces. This was misrepresented as Michael saying that he thought Palestinians shouldn’t be allowed to vote. The second time was when Michael Rosen said that people should not argue that the assimilation of Jews is good but that we should be neutral on whether Jews should assimilate (intermarry and so on) or not. In an article on your blog he was misquoted to make it look like he was determined that Jews should not mix with non-Jews. Gilad Atzmon even used the misquote to redefine zionism in an article on Counterpunch. This was deliberate dishonesty and you (and he) knew it. When Michael Rosen tried to engage with people on your blog no one, certainly not you, engaged with what he actually had to say. He was abused simply as a Jew. This is why I have called you a racist.
You have also misrepresented how it was that various Jewish anti-zionist activists came to fall out with Gilad Atzmon in the first place. It began when Ali Abunimah denounced Israel Shamir as a neo-nazi or some such. Gilad Atzmon had invested a lot of his own credibility in that man in spite of his (Shamir’s) open support for so-called non-bourgeois white nationalists (nazis to put it plainly). So when a few people from the Just Peace UK e-list followed the lead of Abunimah, Atzmon went ape and denounced them and their writings as the “protocols of the elders of North London.”
Haitham may well appreciate your blog. Good for you if he does. Wishing to see the State of Israel wiped from the map as I do does not mean that I have to share every Palestinian’s taste in blogs. I believe that you and Gilad Atzmon are using the Palestinian cause as a vehicle for issues you have with Jews generally, whether zionist or not. If Palestinians enjoy such Jew-baiting, it’s nice for them to find some joy in this troubled world. I won’t interfere. But I can’t play ball as far as that goes because I don’t see Jews and Palestinians as being essentially on different sides. In fact I don’t see any ethnicity as essentially anything. I see zionism as the enemy of us all (mostly of the Palestinians) and I see antisemitism as an ally of zionism. History bears me out on this. Even now the main allies of zionism in the US are the antisemitic Christian zionists.
Now Mary, it is true that I have insulted you, it is true that I have called you racist, but I have never used sex or gender to put you down. You have also insulted me, as have your friends, my being Jewish has been used against me on your site and, when I’ve allowed it, on mine. There are now several demonstrable lies that you have told on this thread alone. And if you do it on a friend’s site, what might you get up to on your own site, me hearty?
Woops, I didn’t read your whole comment. You can name various non-Muslims who I have banned from my site (knuckles/aka atzmon, Sarah and you) and yet you can only assert that I have banned people you know to be Muslims without giving their names. Your bullshit detector must be seriously on the blink if you can only name the non-Muslims Mary. You can see bullshit on your screen but not on your keyboard. Do you really not see how transparently false this idea that I have banned Muslims who have come back to you to complain is but you can’t name them whilst you can name the non-Muslims? Don’t be so ludicrous Mary. Grow up and stop haranguing me over fictitious non-issues. Or if you really are of goodwill, tell me a few things you’d like me to do to get you off my case here. No lies now, no false accusations. Just say what you think I ought to do, bearing in mind that when you first started blogging I promoted your blog, describing it as “marvellous” and the like. Clearly our relationship went sour and I want it put back together again. So what can I do, me hearty?
Thanks Mary
And thank you for your tolerance Haitham. You really are a better man than me. Mind you I too reject zionist propaganda as a rule.
December 9th, 2007 at 3:14 am
“Clearly our relationship went sour and I want it put back together again”. What is this, good cop bad cop in the same post? A bit much, if you ask me, and why the hell do you bother? You can say what you want, all it takes is a visit to your blog, especially your comments to see that content doesn’t matter, but smearing does, as much as you can muster. And you calling me a liar every five minutes doesn’t help either. To claim I am using Palestinians for something is much more than an insult, it is a very horrible accusation, and you don’t know me, but many other people do, and quite well (including Haitham) and I think they know where I stand. I don’t do all my work in the public eye, and you have no right to make these accusations about what you love to call Jew baiting and using Palestinians to do it, because it is ultimately disgusting and you are the only one who falls for it, (and your little group of buddies who hate to be exposed, but I will keep on doing it, Elf, because you deserve it). FTP certainly did NOTHING that was unacceptable, and given the extreme pressure he was put under to cave in to your demands, including the recruitment of people who were not involved to “break him”, he showed enormous restraint. I suggest anyone still awake through this umpteenth stupid battle with you and your disruption to check out http://freethepeeps.wordpress.com/ just to see what kind of things you and your friends are capable of when those who contest you get on your nerves. I call it cyber stalking, but we can’t put a restraining order on you, so we are forced to expose you. That is all we can do.
I don’t need to list all the Muslim people who have been banned from your blog, and who have told me, because two of them went public with it on my blog, Shaukat and Falasteen Son, and another two (yes, Muslims, yes, Palestinians, and since they did not mention it publicly, but were very surprised and one was very offended) actually had the reaction of fearing that maybe they were being “misunderstood, bad English, you know” even though all they wrote was for you to stop harassing me. They were insulted, and I was indeed called an Atzmonette and a groupie. These, I believe would be considered sexist epithets in anyone’s book. Would you dare call a man such things? Is it possible in your worldview that a woman can be politically allied with a person and not be his lover or his back up singer, as you tried to defend yourself, (posting your response to MY comment that you of course banned). It’s a free speech thing, dialogue, you know. Whatever you can do to put relationships together for the sake of two votes on a poll!! If it weren’t so ridiculous, it would be tragic, because it is as false as things get in this little world of blogging, where people end up putting their hearts on their sleeves, and their affinities are evident.
Keep on using the Ali Abunimah article (how old is that?) about SHAMIR to put Atzmon down. It really makes no sense. When there are Palestinians who actually support Gilad (many of them), they get called Quislings by your ilk! Really! Critique of Judaism and Jewishness (oh, too complicated for you to actually read the articles) is NOT Jew-baiting, and by now, you should try to get your head around this. Palestinians and others who find these articles insightful are not Jew-baiters, and claiming this is just poisoning the well and you know it.
Elf, go on with your self-righteousness and your insulting, you really do deserve to have less than 300 readers a day. I am surprised you have that many, but now a few more will come in to check out your content, so in the next few days, try to make yourself look good. It will be a struggle, but you might be up to it.
Haitham knows how emotionally involved I get in things and how determined and committed I feel about breaking the zionist stranglehold, so, he probably also knows it’s no reflection on him if this “fight” is being played out here, that someone spends half of his energy to smear my blog by implying the content is bad and that I manipulate it, I feel compelled to react. I am AGAINST manipulation as a rule. Haitham knows my sincerity and dedication to the cause, so it’s more than just “appreciating a Palestinian’s taste in blogs”. Sorry (really) Haitham, that this is going on here, but when I saw Elf and Lisa listed on a same poll as you, I had to speak up. There clearly is something strange about this poll.
Elf does not deny he calls my blog a sewer, calls me anti-Semite and racist and he has a strange idea of what a sexist slur is. I think many of Haitham’s readers are familiar with Peacepalestine, so they can make their own judgment.
And, one last thing, your “being Jewish” is what your blog is about, and I by no means insult it. Most of my best friends and family have a similar circumstance, but we don’t use it as a political weight, and therein is all the difference. The Jews I am part of are very interested in being just human beings without that special label that we have to all somehow go “oh, how neat! A Jewish anti-Zionist! Something extra!” About 15 years ago, I used to use the same argumentation, but that time is gone. Time to stop being exclusive and this is what Gilad is saying. I do suggest you listen to his latest audio interview. He talks about you and maybe you can understand that he is the biggest fighter of Zionism on the planet. But, I don’t think that matters to you, because he threatens your image as being something special, he exposes all the weaknesses in it, and how it does not do a single damn thing for the Palestinian struggle for liberation, and this is where the problem you have with him lies.
December 9th, 2007 at 5:41 am
Well done Sabbah, but I have to say that the Palestine Daily Voices’ ongoing assessment of the Pal blogosphere seems a lot more ‘on the mark’ that the Brass Crescent Awards. At the moment on PDV, Sabbah’s Blog is #1 and Peace Palestine #2, with Umkahlil, DesertPeace and Annie’s Letters in the top 10. See http://palestine.dailyvoices.com/community
Elf’s blog doesn’t make an appearance there, which is as it should be.
What all this “Me hearty” stuff suddenly, Elf? You’re tryng to get votes, aren’t you?! Come one now, be honest for once. Didn’t you refer to these Bronze Crescent awards as the “Bloscars” on your blog, when you were inploring your 5 readers to vote for you? Isn’t it odd that not one of them even left a comment at that post?!
Ah Elf, so you’re trying to heal your relationship with Mary, and are not one to make sexist insulting, abusive remarks to anyone that makes a comment on your blog you don’t agree with! In fact, your stinky letter to FTP was just the latest in a long line of attacks against Palestinian solidarity activists. Didn’t you say this to poster on your blog on March 15? Were you drunk then too?
Elf: …You could surmise that I can’t be bothered finding an article for a sad fuck who’s too lazy to find it himself….You’re an attention seeking wanker. First you set yourself up as an anti-zionist Jew. Then you realised that there were many of those so you had to be an antisemitic Jew. By your own admission you didn’t know that most establishment history was a pack of lies until you got the internet. So now you claim to believe anything as long as it doesn’t accord with the establishment’s professed view, which is about as honest as yours. Now go back to your project you fat fuck.
http://www.haloscan.com/comments/levi9909/3357724938693079987/#283826
No vote, Elf.
December 9th, 2007 at 10:04 am
Mark Elf writes: “In fact there were a few posts that reminded me of the nazi rag, Der Sturmer.”
You probably should tell us which of Mary’s posts you have in mind, so we can judge for ourselves whether they remind us of Der Sturmer. Otherwise, you’re just sliming and that’s not very nice.
December 9th, 2007 at 1:34 pm
Mary - I came here in goodwill and you cast aspersions on my integrity now you’re doing a hurt act or maybe you really are hurt but you didn’t have to get involved and you’ve called on reinforcements.
Re FTP - Tony Greenstein emailed FTP asking him to remove an article by Atzmon. I didn’t agree with Tony on that and I have since said so on Indymedia itself. Tony copied a load of people (some I knew some I didn’t) into his email. This FTP/Roy Bard character then wrote to all the cc’s accusing them of “working as a group” to get Atzmon’s article removed from the Indymedia site. Two of us replied to FTP/Roy Bard’s email which we felt was insulting. I swore at him a few times. It was nothing that could be described as pressure. You are over-dramatising and lying about a non-issue. I replied to his email and that was that.
Ok, now to Gilad (for it is he). Ok, Gilad don’t vote Elf. The comment you quote was to a chap who called himself “Fat Jewish GUY from the project” who kept dodging questions about you funnily enough. I got exasperated and insulted him in the same terms that he used announce himself. There was nothing sexist in my comment. The word “fuck” is might be SEXUAL but it is not of itself SEXIST. (Same with the word “wanker” actually. It’s your politics Gilad, they’re all over the place. You need to do more reading - and I don’t mean mine or Mary’s blogs. As it happens, like Abunimah, the “fat Jewish guy from the project” thinks Shamir’s racism is unacceptable too. And “me hearty” was a reference to a post that Mary did that looked like it came straight out of a nazi publication called Der Sturmer complete with ludicrous stereotypes of Jews who don’t agree with you Gilad. Perhaps you could provide the link to that since you must remember it too.
Before you start yabbering on about being in Brazil while Gilad Atzmon is in the UK perhaps the host could run your IP through http://www.dnsstuff.com. The last time Gilad Atzmon used the knuckles ID to post on my blog it came up as this: could be forged (link to user IP address was removed by Sabbah based on IP’s owner request for privacy reasons. OTOH, upon my -Sabbah- test, this is to confirm that the questioned IP address is Brazilian). It is forged. But people can check for themselves.
Regarding my post on The Bloscars: this is it in full:
Well this is an interesting turn. For a long time now all I have done is blog my blog. I mean I just do posts from here or there, approve or not the handful of comments I get and maybe even respond to some. I don’t do anything in the way of promotion like I did when I began back in 2004 so it’s heart warming and gratifying that I’ve been nominated for some kind of Bloscar. That’s an Oscar for blogs (I made it up unless someone already made it up, I certainly haven’t heard it before, and it’s certainly clunky enough to be a genuine elfianism).
The Bloscars are being organised by Brass Crescent. There are various categories of blogs and maybe at least four entrants in each category. Frankly I only recognised two of the entrants and as, thankfully, they are in different categories, I voted for both of them, Sabbah’s Blog and Rolled-Up Trousers. I didn’t think it would be cricket to vote for my own blog. I didn’t vote against it by voting for any of the others in the same category as mine. The only one I recognised was Juan Cole’s and I got a bit bored with it after a while. Is he a bit woolly? I can’t remember. Anyway, check out the Brass Crescent site. I’ve bookmarked it so as to check out the various entrants at my own leisure.
Closing date for voting is 14 December 2007.
Still I’m glad you came here Gilad. I wondered when Mary would call in reinforcements. I prefer to fight my battles on my own.
Now neither of you like me and that’s your prerogative but so far you have both called me a liar which you can’t prove and I have demonstrated I think at least three lies by Mary now. Or was it the same one three times? Or does it even matter? I’m getting email notifications for responses on this thread but I’m mostly skimming. I don’t fancy scrolling back up but some of Mary’s comments are downright lies about me. Oh yes, the one about Hamas. I applauded their victory, Mary said that I said it was a mistake. Not that that would have been such a terrible thing to say but I didn’t say it. The me “bullying” FTP thing. He wrote to me and I replied. I can’t think of a third lie but I’m sure there is one. Ah yes, the sexist thing. The best she can get “knuckles” to come up with there is the use of the words “fuck” and “wanker” in a “private” email or in the comments on my own blog. Must try harder both of you.
Have another go Mary, but if you had any decency you’d acknowledge the lies (ok let’s be charitable and call them “mistakes”, refrain from any new ones and deal with this on your own. Was Sarah not available?
Cheers for now. I have to take the dog to the forest and I won’t be back til this afternoon. I’ll check my email for responses. No promises as to response though. I said I was weary two comments ago, didn’t I?
Cheers
December 9th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
Elf:Before you start yabbering on about being in Brazil while Gilad Atzmon is in the UK perhaps the host could run your IP through http://www.dnsstuff.com.
Yes, let’s ask him to do that Elfie. Haitham, which country is my IP number located in, please tell us all. Elf, if you stopped to think just for once, you’d realise that Gilad has no NEED to disguise himself as knuckles or anyone else when leaving a comment here, as he is most welcome here.
Well, it’s only 8.39 here in Brazil, which means it’s 11.39 in the UK and you are no doubt wandering haphazardly in the forest with your dog. If you’re very VERY nice to him, and refrain from calling him a ‘wanker’ or a ‘fat fuck’, maybe he’ll vote for you?
December 9th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Elf, I didn’t call reinforcements. People actually happen to read Haitham’s blog and have seen this. In fact, it was Dean who told me about the Brass Crescent and I told Haitham. I don’t really care what happens in your little world of J Blogging, but I felt it within my rights to wonder just what was up when troublemakers such as Lisa and yourself were mentioned as being kind to Muslims, (and this racial and ethnic typing is getting to be very annoying in internet. When people start being people, I will be glad.) I do believe I am indeed entitled to feeling that your smearing and insulting and harassment, not only of me, but of anyone who does not tolerate your way of doing things and your incredibly rude manners (this has been an issue for a few years, actually, not just starting with FTP) is way beyond the beyond. And Knuckles isn’t Elf! And keep calling me a liar with your ignorant crap and smearing.
Oh, please point out your esteem for Hamas! I would like to see this one! How is it that Tony doesn’t get on you for that, I wonder? Oh, sort of like how you all think it’s great that Rosen gigs at Zionist fundraisers (getting his share of course). It’s like there is some red line that moves back and forth according to who is doing the calls.
And, to get it straight, just for your knowledge, since you weren’t “there”, the Elders of London was not about Shamir, it was about the JPUK trying to bring down Deir Yassin Remembered by putting pressure on people. Remember now? It was lobbying and back room dealing at its finest. Such is the case that some of the elders are now in Engage and signed the Euston Manifesto, and are promoting “skeptical” sites against Muslims, (of course, all religion is bad, according to them, but they still call themselves Jews, even if they are atheists or secular, but they single out Muslims. Does Brian Robinson ring a bell?)
And one more detail… you once thought my blog was ok, well, how could it have been, if the very first post was a Gilad Atzmon one, and he is the devil? He’s been the featured writer since day one. I agree with David, point out the Der Strumer post.
Oh, and it seems you don’t think calling a woman a groupie when she expresses her ideas is sexist. I think you really have no sensitivity towards others, and this is the root of your problem, Elf. My, how the fake and hypocritical peacemaker stance fell in ten seconds. Sincere to the bone.
December 9th, 2007 at 4:00 pm
Pubishing people’s IP numbers is illegal, as well as being the lowest of the low acts to stoop to, but nothing should surprise us about you, Elf. It’s a long-used Zionist and crypto-zionist tactic.
When they start an award for the slimiest sayan’s blog on the www, you’ll get my vote, but not before that.
December 9th, 2007 at 4:06 pm
Mark Elf wrote: “Now neither of you like me …”
Hey, don’t forget me.
December 9th, 2007 at 6:29 pm
You got my vote.
December 9th, 2007 at 11:54 pm
David - thanks a million for giving me a get-out. Dishonesty takes various forms. Lying, as Mary has at least three times in this thread alone, is one. Hypocrisy, like yours, is another. Mary has offered no evidence for any of her smears against me. She accused me of sexist insults, and the best she can do is get Atzmon to link to me calling a *MAN* who calls himself a “fat Jewish guy” a “fat fuck.” I mean we’ve all heard that “fat is a feminist issue” but that’s ridiculous. She has said that I said that Palestinians voting for Hamas was a mistake and she offered no evidence and I insist that I don’t think it was a mistake. It is not for her to challenge me to find anything positive I have said about Hamas. She made the allegation that I said something negative about them and their voters and it is for her to show the evidence to back up her allegation. She says that I tried to bully a certain Indymedia UK editor (Roy Bard/FTP) over hosting an Atzmon article and I didn’t. I merely replied to an email he sent me and swore at him quite a lot for assuming that because people have been copied into an email they must be responsible, indeed “working as a group,” on it. These were three demonstrable lies. And that is the main issue I have with Mary and with Atzmon. No matter how popular they may be with this or that Palestinian, I know them to be serial liars and smear merchants and I just cannot play ball with that. And besides I know enough Palestinians who can’t stand either of them to know that disliking them hardly amounts to “crypto-zionism.”
Now David, your hypocrisy lies in the fact that whilst Mary has told these three lies without substantiation, I have expressed an opinion that there have been posts on her site that resemble Der Sturmer. Now even if I showed you the posts I meant you might not agree. And even if you did agree, you are so clearly dishonest you might deny it. But how can one prove an opinion? I’m certainly not going to waste my time trying to prove something to a hypocrite like you. Mary has made three statements purporting to be facts. They are either true or not and if they are true they are demonstrable. If what she said is true then she could prove it. Her problem is that none of it was true. Her only evidence against me is that I use bad language now and again. There’s nothing sexist or racist about it. She said I shouldn’t be listed as something or other to do with genuine dialogue with Muslims and then cited herself, Atzmon and a guy called Roy Bard with whom I definitely don’t seek dialogue as evidence against me. When I correctly point out that they are not Muslims she accuses me of ethnic profiling. Surely readers see the lack of logic and consistency to her position.
So since the debate has now got so one sided with one of Mary’s cohorts calling for me to abide by a rule that would be impossible (prove my opinion) whilst allowing Mary to get away with demonstrable lies (without any call for evidence), I can bow out with my integrity and my honour in tact, safe in the knowledge that yet again Mary has had to lie, call on others, rely on others to simply hurl cheap insults about and even try to rope in reluctant others to her silly game of being Mrs Palestine to Gilad Atzmon’s Mr Palestine. And before someone quotes me saying “fuck” or “wanker” as evidence of cheap insults by me, they usually come amid a lot of substantiation as to why I am using such words, as cheap and unpleasant as they may be.
So thank you David, your hypocrisy has saved me a lot of valuable time that might otherwise have been wasted. Thanks for not liking me too. I’d ve full of self-doubt if anything else was the case.
I’m unsubscribing to this thread now but I’m easy enough to find if anyone wants to draw my attention to any of Mary’s pearls of wisdom. Bullshit detector indeed! Yeah right Mary.
Cheers Haitham, thanks for the space and good luck.
December 10th, 2007 at 12:20 am
Goodbye Elf. There were no lies by me, just distortion by you who has to learn how to read. Shame you still think Gilad wrote something here! Or that I recruited who knows who! People actually Come to this blog, they don’t need an invitation by me! Shame that when I actually mentioned two Muslims (as per your request, after having mentioned some of the other people who have gotten the black carpet treatment from you) who publicly stated that you had banned them, after insulting them, of course, and the others who had privately told me this, you seem to think Gilad and I are talking about “fat” this or that. And yes, I forgot about Eugene. He too has told me of the problems of having any kind of dialogue with you. Nearly impossible unless one is open to masochism. Sexist remarks, I said GROUPIE, that was the word, Elf. Try to read. Not reading my post and continuing to call me a liar just shows what you’re made of. Calling David a hypocrite for “WHAT”???? For asking you to substantiate your smears? What’s hypocritical about that? We see your true colours shining through, and you don’t really even have to try to hard. Yes, your integrity and honesty is down there where it was before. Maybe even slightly lower.
December 10th, 2007 at 2:44 am
Goodbye, Elf. Adeus, ate logo, and ciaozinho, as we say here in Brasil. E por favor, volta nao mais, voce e sua cachorro!! Fica vontade a sua shtetle cyber, sans otra gente!!
December 10th, 2007 at 4:05 am
Claims claims not to use sexist language or slam Hamas (except when he’s drunk, of course).
Elf above: She (thecutter) has said that I said that Palestinians voting for Hamas was a mistake and she offered no evidence and I insist that I don’t think it was a mistake. It is not for her to challenge me to find anything positive I have said about Hamas. She made the allegation that I said something negative about them and their voters and it is for her to show the evidence to back up her allegation.
Elf talking about Hamas 18 November: 44% of the people who vote in the occupied PA elections (ie a minority of a minority) happen to vote for a group a part of whose charter tallies with the antisemitic worldview you are promoting.
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2007/11/18/there_are_no_gatekeepers_just_anti_racis#c11324
Elf talking about “groupies” and “acolytes”: So, do you want to analyse zionism and oppose it for what it really is or do you want be just another ludicrous groupie for this thoroughly dishonest ego maniac?…we are entitled to condemn zionism as Jews without being harassed and smeared by Atzmon and his on line acolytes.
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2007/11/18/there_are_no_gatekeepers_just_anti_racis#c11335
December 10th, 2007 at 11:41 am
Hi,As I am being discussed here, I’d like to put my perspective:
Mark says:
” But since you have drawn me into this, FTP aka Roy Bard wrote to a lot of people who had been copied into an email by Tony Greenstein. FTP (Roy Bard) was accusing us all of “working as a group.””
This is true. And the reason I wrote to everyone on Greenstein’s CC list is because Steve Cohen wrote directly to me - instead of to the Indymedia features list. Furthermore, I was aware that several people on the list had been engaged in attacking Atzmon - including Mark on his blog, and Rance on Wikipedia.
Mark: He claimed that his email was “off list,” in other words, private. -
That was his assumption - I meant off the Indymedia Features list - how can an email to 9 people be private?
Mark: I was drunk at the time and I replied angrily and swore at him at least three times. I have to say I stand by what I said but if I hadn’t have been drunk I would have simply ignored his email.
He stands by what he said? That I am a “piece of human sh*t! That writing to Tony Greenstein’s CC list is anti-semitic! I didn’t compile the list - Greenstein did! Going on about “Jewish surnames” is something Mark stands by? The implicatioons of judginmg people by their surnames seems horrendous to me! Oh yes, and presumably he stands by his description of Greenstein as being like a Viagra Spammer……
If Mark had any capability for self-reflection, he would understand that the whole issue is about being many people sent emails “off list” at Greenstein’s bidding. He would also acknowledge that he is much closer to Tony Greenstein than I am to anyone who sends me Viagra spam. He also demonstrated in the email that he shares Greenstein’s misreading of Atzmon’s article. This isn’t the best way to distance himself from Greenstein’s attempt to bully Indymedia into banning Atzmon. In fact, Mark would realise that he should ask Greenstein not to CC him into his vindictive campaigns if he does not want to be associated with them. So should the other people on the list.
Mark: He then published the “off list” email as if I had written to him at Tony’s request and not in reply to what he (Roy Bard/FTP) had written.
People can check the link for themselves to see if this true.
Mark: I don’t know how you can make such a long saga out of one drunken email replying to whole load of conspiratorial nonsense from someone trying their damnedest to be anonymous (ie Roy Bard/FTP).
Hmmm, did Steve Cohen know who I was when he wrote to me? Did Mark when he wrote to me? The majority of people on the Indymedia list use handles. Many people know exactly who I am, including people that Mark knows well. How does he work out that its conspiratorial?
Joe 90 on Mark’s blog tried to work out who I was - why? What difference does it make? According to Mark’s own behaviour, I was entitled to be as abusive as I liked when I received an unsolicited email. I wasn’t abusive, he was.
Mark’s experience should, at the least, be a hint to him of how Greenstein’s ceaseless vindictive campaigns make people feel.
That should be enough for him to tell Greenstein to stop doing it, and to stop dragging him into them.
Mark: I don’t care what appears on Indymedia UK and I’ve made that clear on my own blog.
http://jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.com/2007/11/something-rotten-at-indymedia-uk.html
Hidden posts at Indymedia do not appear on search engines. So, while he criticises Indymedia for hiding the post, he posts up the offensive bit Indymedia hid onto his blog so it does now appear on search engines. To make his point, he hosts the racism so that it can be searched for.
Indymedia hides posts, but deletes in only rare circumstances. That is our agreed editorial decision. If people want to dig in the sewers, they can expect to find unpleasant stuff.
Mark seems not to be consistent when he says he doesn’t care what appears on Indymedia.
At the end of day, Greenstein called on people to send emails to Indymedia - nobody in Indymedia came looking for them.
PS - hope it goes well with the votes Sabbah.
December 10th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
Thanks for doing the research, knuckles! Elf is so used to lying and bullshitting, he even forgets what he’s written, and it’s too bad he “unsubscribed” so he won’t be able to be reminded of what he wrote less than a month ago! At least in one thing, he is consistent: that he claims he knows that any person who comments that is not “me” has to be “Gilad”, no matter what that person says! Waiting for Lisa to drop in so that I can have a second round with a slightly more dangerous smiley face! (ahahah!) I’d love to see her defend her stuff, this would be very interesting. What counts in her world is that we realise that stealing candy in a shop is terrible, but stealing land from people is a moral obligation, when it is not just an astute career move.
December 10th, 2007 at 9:46 pm
Haitham, thank you for removing the link to my IP number, which the cyber stalker Elf published above in comment #29, and also for confirming it is NOT a forged number and IS licated in Brasil.
Thanks Elf for demonstrating to us your modus operandi - if you cannot delete comments you don’t like, well next best thing is to hit the bottle, get motherless drunk, scream abuse at them, and then publish the person’s IP address. Typical Zionist.
December 10th, 2007 at 10:49 pm
Sexist Elf on “Atmonettes” - 23 November 2007:
http://www.haloscan.com/comments/levi9909/1336238984744864458/#319948
Joe - i just noticed “Atzmonettes.” I thought it was me who first coined that. I was thinking of how in the old rock ‘n’ roll songs you’d get backing singers who, no matter how inane the lyric of the song, would do these barely intellible doodlang doodlang doodlangs. That’s Mary. Nothing sexist about that.
Mark Elf (aka levi9909) | Homepage | 11.23.07 - 7:48 am | #