What Israel’s Channel 2 News DON’T show?
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One of my grandfathers (out of thousands other Palestinian grandfathers of mine) tells us his story:
Posted by Haitham Sabbah
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12 Comments on “What Israel’s Channel 2 News DON’T show?”
Makes me feel sorry for the kid who shot the old man too. The young Israelis have been enrolled in a scaled up version of the Stanford Prison Study and they probably don’t even realize it. The old man understands what is happening to him, but the kid who shot him doesn’t have a clue of the irony. If he doesn’t blow his brains out later in life or murder someone in a fit of rage he might figure out who dehumanized him.
Is that the case with 99.999% of Israel and its IOF?!
What’s the difference between this IOF solider and the settler who shoot a 9 years old in the head? What’s the difference between these two and the Nazi’s who put the Jews in the gas chambers? Nothing, they all are terrorists.
I think all Israelis are victims of their own collective psychosis. How could anyone sane do things like this?
You can’t really hold someone legally responsible if they are crazy. The person is not the disease. The person is not the behavior. The criminal is not the crime.
It’s a way of looking at things. It’s just a paradigm. It doesn’t change a damned thing. I have to believe that people have to be sick - mentally deranged and/or brainwashed - if they can justify what Israel is doing to Palestine and the whole idea of Zionism, that you can just kick people out and expect everyone to be happy about it.
I’m not apologizing for their behavior. I’m creating the possibility that the do not know the human consequences what they are doing, which is the definition of insanity.
Dean,
I have to disagree with you because if all are crazy then that is their “nature”, which might be different than others. At this stage, they are all responsible in what they do.
In fact you reminded me to a post I wrote a couple of years ago and that time no one understood what I’m saying (maybe some did but kept silent). It was called “The River of Madness”. You can read it here!
Very interesting gosub, Haitham. My original point was about Zimbardo’s prison experiment at Stanford University, which showed us how human behavior is controlled by social situations rather than individual “nature.”
An individual has almost no power at all to maintain their personal identity when we are forced to participate in powerful social situations. Our behavior is completely defined by the roles which our society and our culture defines for us. Behavior is completely deterministic and there is no free will - if we are to believe the results of the experiment.
Which was the most interesting question of justice which had to be answered at the Nuremberg trials. Is the defense “I was just doing my job” [which was defined by the social situation] a valid explanation for participation in social “crimes”. If everyone is doing it - and it begins to look “normal” - then how much power does the individual have to go against it? The jury is still out, as Zimbardo explains.
Once upon a time B-) Zimbardo observed ordinary people, who had no psychotic symptoms in their “nature” before the study, engaged in insane behavior based simply upon which of two arbitrary roles they were asked to play, based upon a role of the dice.
Randomly selected students assigned to play prison guards became sadistic bastards and exhibited all the behaviors we associate with unbridled totalitarianism. They didn’t kill anyone because Zimbardo shut down the study before they had a chance. He speculates that if he had allowed the experiment to go on there might have been fatalities.
It was exactly the same behavior that we are seeing in the IOF individuals. And the persons in experimental prisoner roles exhibited the exact same symptoms as we observe in Palestinians today - defiance and passive aggressive violence.
The similarities are uncanny actually.
So back to my original point about why I feel sorry for the kid who shot the old man. Obviously I empathize more with our old grandfather, but the kid is acting in complete harmony with the role that the social situation has defined for him. He does not have a chance. He was doomed when he went in. Just as Zionists were doomed when they began their experiment. But the experiment is still running now and no one has the sense to shut it down.
I don’t think that person has any more choice about the cruelty they inflict than I have any choice in sprouting wings and flying to the moon. The minute you put someone in a situation like that, it doesn’t matter who it is, they are doomed to become the thing the society wants them to be.
Same goes for U.S. soldiers or any kind of social role players. The behavior is direct result the insane situation. The same person in another context could be someone entirely different.
The person is not the role. It is the role that needs to be eliminated, not the individual playing it.
Powerful stuff this video. All this discussion about social experiments and collective psychosis obviously have merit in an academic situation or analyzing how the radio broadcast of ‘War of the Worlds’ led to widespread panic. But its all too sterile for me in this situation, especially in light of what has been going in Gaza. Martin Luther King Jr said it long ago as have many others, from philosophers to psychologists: fear and hate eat away from the inside and rot the soul. That notwithstanding, the individuals who are doing these acts, anywhere along the ‘chain of command’ are choosing to participate. They either enjoy what they are doing or lack the courage to say no. In either case they are culpable. And if they are not able to corral whatever urges are driving them to this behavior then it is the world’s responsibility to intervene. I have no doubt that when history is finally written on this chapter in our history that it will be one of the most shameful things; right up there with the Holocaust, Rwanda, Darfur, South Africa’s apartheid and slavery (to name a few).
This is what troubles me most when looking at IOF and the number of their refusenik, which is not more than 650 soldiers (out of 168,000 active troops and an additional 408,000 reservist - wiki)? This is another crime against humanity by Zionists done to Jews. Raising hundreds of thousands criminals/terrorists (if we look at IOF only) and the world is standing still, while the world stopped the Nazis!
Refusenik:
http://www.couragetorefuse.org/English/default.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refusal_to_serve_in_the_Israeli_military
“An individual has almost no power at all to maintain their personal identity when we are forced to participate in powerful social situations. Our behavior is completely defined by the roles which our society and our culture defines for us. Behavior is completely deterministic and there is no free will - if we are to believe the results of the experiment.”
The problem with this analysis is that it is solely taking the results of the Zimbardo experiment as proof positive that we have no free will. Firstly, this was a controlled experiment, not real life. In real life we see much to the contrary to refute Zambardo’s conclusions. We see acts of CONSCIENCE and moral integrity which rise far above the so-called outcome, “there is no free will”
Simple case in point, the Nuremberg trials. Dean, suggested that “I was just doing my job” was a “valid” defense. Sure, it was a defense proferred by the defendants, it was also a defense refuted. It was refuted for several reasons, amongst which proof positive that not all Germans or others went along with Hitler’s agenda. Ironically, those who did not go along with the Nazi agenda were busy saving the lives of the Jews (and others) who now have turned this HORRIFIC era in history into a basis on which they should be granted a free pass to oppress another, the Palestinian people.
But let’s make the point clear here again. Zionism and Judaism are SEPARATE entities. One can certainly be a Zionist without being Jewish-in that case, one is looking at a situation and basically stating,”The Jewish people suffered beyond what any people should suffer (which is true in the case of the Holocaust, certainly everyone can agree to that) and therefor they need a ’special homeland’ that they can call their own and ALL others must make room for this. It need not matter that other people (the Palestinians)themselves will suffer, this must be done for the (what is perceived by Zionists) as the ‘better good’ and ALSO (which is TWISTED) their ‘divine right above all other peoples’.
To state that one people is above another people is simply sociopathic in nature. Refer to the definition of sociopathy (in individuals) to see the overlay in definition to Zionism itself (http://www.9types.com/wwwboard/messages/18332.html)Note, the end of the definition:
“There are many theories about the cause of Antisocial Personality
Disorder including experiencing neglectful parenting as a child, low
levels of certain neurotransmitters in the brain, and belief that
antisocial behavior is justified because of difficult circumstances.
Psychotherapy, group therapy, and family therapy are common
treatments. The effects of medical treatment are inconclusive.
Unfortunately, most people with Antisocial Personality Disorder
reject treatment. Therefore, recovery rates are low.”
What is done to sociopaths in society if they are a threat to others?
They are REMOVED from society so that society does not suffer.
Above also you state Dean, “if they can justify what Israel is doing to Palestine and the whole idea of Zionism, that you can just kick people out and expect everyone to be happy about it.” Who said that Zionists “expect people to be happy about it”? The point is that Zionists do NOT CARE if people are happy about it, that shows a lack of CONSCIENCE.
Now, on the other hand, if people had no free will, there would not be such organizations as Combatants for Peace and the Refusnik movement, and all the other Jewish peace organizations within Israel itself. There could NOT be these people of conscience because the Zionist environment would not allow for it. That is just simply not true. To state this is moral relativity and therefor there should be no punishment for ANYTHING because certainly the environment is responsible for all that you are. There is no black and white in this, there are nuances, and CERTAINLY if given the CHOICE as a Zionist to accept the rights of Palestinians and to change course in action, this IS a possibility, and it IS a choice on the part of the individual.
To state that you feel sorry for the kid who shot the old man, what does that do for the situation? It AGAIN gives a free pass to Zionist aggression. This is just simply morally wrong. Chief Justice Jackson who presided over the Nuremberg Trials stated:
“We must make clear to the Germans that the wrong for which their fallen leaders are on trial is not that they lost the war, but that they started it. And we must not allow ourselves to be drawn into a trial of the causes of the war, for our position is that no grievances or policies will justify resort to aggressive war. It is utterly renounced and condemned as an instrument of policy.”
Zionism was a WAR on the indigenous people of Palestine. This is NOT an experiment like Zambrano’s, this was NOT halted before any deaths occurred, this HAPPENED, a people were forced from their land and the expansion is CONTINUING in the settlements, occupation, coercive transferral, and the genocide of Gaza.
So basically what I am saying is that using the Zambrano experiment as an analogy is fallacious and that free will in society DOES exist, and based on that, those who continue to commit crimes MUST be held accountable because they are cancers to a just and peaceful society-one made up of people who are ALL equal both under law AND and as a given, equal in the eyes of our creator as we are ALL his children
As usual, Haitham made my point much better than I could.
Zionism is a crime against Jews. Not only does Zionism kill Palestinians it corrupts the Israelis themselves.
Maybe I should have just wrote “Fucking Nazis” and left it there.
Robin - I was just trying to recapitulate the study in my own words for those who may not have encountered it. My apologies for a poor summary or erroneous conclusions. Send me a SASE and I’ll refund your money.
I did not assert that the Nuremberg defense is valid. You distorted my point, which was that situational ethics was the central legal question at the trials. Don’t shoot the reporter!
Moral culpability revolves around choice. If there is no choice there is no crime. I would argue that only a few people take the Red Pill and escape from the Matrix. The rest of them believe the bullshit the system feeds them and therefore are best viewed as hapless dupes rather than conscious criminals.
A while back Haitham got some email from the State Department about one of his posts. My fellow American citizens read here and some of them are paid by the U.S. government to monitor the blogosphere. So every once in a while I like to write something for them that will make them wonder whether they can say “I was just doing my job.”
Thank you haitham for such a brilliant Video . Bravo.
Great point of views, everyone!
Let’s wave hand and say “Hiiii” to Big Brother watching us now
Hi mom.
She is my big brother.