Written by Haitham Sabbah on 29. March 2008, 1924hrs // Part of Haitham Sabbah's adventure in Human Rights, Islam, USA, Video // Other posts by Haitham Sabbah
Listen carefully to the results at the nd f the clip. They are scary!
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Article Tags>> Islam | Muslim | Terrorism | USA
Here is a sample of the hate emails, which I waste considerable time on reading lately:
Name: Billiam Mortain
Email: willie21@peoplepc.com
Subject: Israeli Kids sending Palastinians gifts
Message: I think the Israelis,should send you muslim pigs the BIG
GIFT. .A big NUKE. I think you pigs forget what you did to us
Americans on Sept 11TH.A ... EXCLUSIVE-US tax breaks help Jewish settlers in West Bank
Source: Reuters By Adam Entous The United States says Jewish settlements in the occupied West Bank threaten any peace between Israel and the Palestinians -- yet it also encourages Americans to help support settlers by offering tax breaks on donations. As Condoleezza Rice flew in on Monday for another round of peace talks, ... Despite truce, still no sign of school supplies in Gaza
Under its truce with Hamas, Israel has permitted shipments of frozen meat, soft drinks, cookies, jam, shampoo, clothing and other items. However, the amounts are insufficient for the entire population. In September 2007 - three months after Hamas took over the Gaza Strip, and after the main cargo crossing, Karni, had ... A Monopoly of Incompetence, Corruption, Failure and Thuggery
Years of silence by Palestinian "Sheiks" and intellectuals led us to where we are now. Arafat ruled the PLO and Fatah with iron fist, using bribery, intimidation even physical liquidation to silence every one. There was never a call for accountability of decisions, failures even financial corruptions. Time for a ... We are running out of time for a two-state solution
By Akiva Eldar, Haaretz Correspondent At the end of my conversation with Sari Nusseibeh at the American Colony Hotel in Jerusalem, the highly respected president of Al-Quds University - and cosignatory of "The People's Choice," a peace plan that he formulated with former Shin Bet chief Ami Ayalon - told ...
Do you like - How Muslims Are Treated In USA? - 
March 29th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
Watching this video actually made me cry. I am speechless.
March 29th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
[...] to Sabbah’s Blog - “Listen carefully to the results at the end of the clip. They are scary!“ Posted [...]
March 29th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
[...] Props to Sabbah.biz [...]
March 29th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
Not surprising really. Though I am glad there were people who protested but still….
I think George W. Bush is partially responsible for creating this whole “you’re either with us or against us” attitude. As you can see, that attitude was in the video.
March 29th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
AWESOME!!!! nice to see stuff like this. yes, it made my eyes water. but it was equally freighting to see so many bigots and so many indifferent people, who are complicit with their silence. so bottom line, there are good people in American, but there are far more many bigots. In a democracy where the majority rules, it’s no surprise when you see America’s murderous policies in Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine, and Somal. These violent actions do seem to represent the will of the majority of American people.
March 30th, 2008 at 12:19 am
History repeats itself: Ignorance has No boundaries! The sionist controlled mass media puppets have done a good job in educating and scaring Americans to believe the Lies from the pit of Hell!!!. What ever happen to: “Freedom of Religion, not From Religion?
March 30th, 2008 at 12:23 am
95% of the bigotry towards Middle Easterners is due to the media. There is a disproportionate amount of negative images of Muslims on television, newspapers, and magazines. Much of the mainstream media will ask where are the moderate Muslims to condemn terrorism and human rights violations in Muslim coutnries. But at the same time they refuse to interview moderate Muslims. Instead they repeatedly show images of Muslim men as bearded, burning American flags and chanting anti-Western slogans; the Muslim women are represented as oppressed, dressed in black from head toe.
March 30th, 2008 at 12:35 am
No doubt, this is why Muslims are leaving the U.S. in droves. What’s that, more Muslims than ever are coming to the U.S.? So, I would have to believe that Muslims are leaving Muslims lands in order to be oppressed in the U.S.? Please, I need an explanation.
March 30th, 2008 at 2:56 am
What should make you think about this video is not the statistics, but the fact that it’s talking about this problem and trying to highlight the reasons behind it. Do we do that in Arab countries? Do we air our dirty laundry? Sadly, no. We have outrageous breaches against humanity and freedom, but we choose to bury our heads in sand, or pretend that we are the perfect society. I live in the US, and there are many Americans who do not share their government’s look at foreign policy. I deal with Americans on a daily basis and most of them treat you with respect. Yes, you will encounter some racist people once in a while, but they can’t take away your rights, and law does protect you. What we should really think of is this: Why Americans think of Arabs this way? Why do they have this twisted image of Arabs? Do we have a hand in this? Yes,I think so. We should start solving our problems before pointing the finger at others. Again, I am deeply saddened by what these people go through, but if you compare their lives to the state of others living in Arab countries, I don’t think the comparison will stand. Regards.
March 30th, 2008 at 3:14 am
This is the second time I have watched this video.
I had tears again.
We are all equal.
Religion, gender or colour should not be a judge of the person.
Where they work or what they do should not judge the person.
I had to add the last comment because I did work at a McDonalds here and I did everything I could to stay away from the workers to do their jobs.
The lowly dishwasher or cook is just as important as the owner. If they didn’t do their jobs the owner wouldn’t have an establishment.
NEVER LOOK DOWN ON PEOPLE!
I am no better than the next person. We are all important in this world.
March 30th, 2008 at 3:28 am
That’s the cult of Little Green Footballs et al. in action. I’m more than glad though that there are enough decent people who are standing up to this idiocy and for what’s right. Thumbs up to them!
March 30th, 2008 at 6:39 am
At least most people stood for her.
Based on your comment on the bottom about Zionist this doesn’t look like a free speech forum, so this part probably won’t be published, but there about 6 times as many hate crimes in America against Jews then agains Muslims.
March 30th, 2008 at 7:43 am
Suhad, You said “so bottom line, there are good people in American, but there are far more many bigots”. According to the stats in the video, your statement is untrue. The fighters outnumbered the bigots. I’m not defending silence but, when people say nothing, one should not assume they are racists. Maybe just shy or afraid.
March 30th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
Islam And The West Accelerated Links…
Haitham Sabbah asks the question how are Muslims treated in the United States ?…
March 30th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
Here is the very long detailed report on Islamophobia done by the OIC which is well worth the read:
http://www.oic-oci.org/oicnew/is11/english/Islamophobia-rep-en.pdf
Robby, your statistics stating hate crimes against Jews being six times those against Muslims is WAY off. One can look at several reports, so I just picked one out of the hat done by the Williams Institute (June 2007)
http://www.centeronhalsted.org/programs/Williams_Institues_Hate_Crimes_Report.pdf
12 in 100,000 Muslims report being the target of a hate crime
15 in 100,000 Jews report being the target of a hate crime.
The fact is that any time a Muslim group such as CAIR reports hate crimes, they are quite often automatically dismissed. You are referring to the FBI report which is vastly under-reported according to the Department of Justice.
Compare that to what occurs when a Jewish group reports a hate crime, even hate crimes that DON”T exist such as what has occurred at UC Irvine where the ADL and ZOA did their darndest to bring in the feds to sanction the school. ZOA even sent representatives to the school showing them just how to fill out the federal hate crime reports.
This is an important read, even the US Senate weighed in on a report sent to them by ZOA. Then the feds investigated and found NO case of anti-Semitism at UC Irvine. Note: the OC Independent task force is a Jewish organization
http://www.redcounty.com/rccampuswatch/2008/03/senate-judiciary-committee-rec/
Here is the report which includes the Federal report finding no anti-semitism at UC Irvine along with a complete history of the saga there: http://theliberaloc.com/category/local/uci-civil-rights/
Now just recently something even more telling occurred, the Jewish students at UC Irvine penned a letter stating themselves that it was outside influences trying to drum this problem up: Here is their press release: http://anteatersforisrael.com/
Jewish student life thrives on campus, despite misinformation from outside organizations
Press release issued by Anteaters for Israel, Hillel: Jewish Student Union, Alpha Epsilon Pi, and Epsilon Phi.
* * *
IRVINE, CA - In lieu of recent controversy over the limits of free speech rights at UC Irvine, we, the Jewish student leaders, stand by the UCI Administration in their efforts to protect First Amendment rights, as well as promote the free exchange of ideas. Chancellor Drake�s appearance at the national Hillel Summit in Washington DC this week exemplified the University�s true commitment to �imagining a more civil society.� We are honored, as the greater Jewish community should also be, by Drake�s unrelenting commitment, as he repeatedly condemns hate speech in all forms, and emphasizes that it has no place on any University campus.
Over the past few months, off-campus organizations have issued allegations that the UCI Administration has failed to properly address issues of anti-Semitism, arguing that Jewish students are consistently victims of physical threat. As representatives of the larger active Jewish community on campus, we challenge this claim and extend an open invitation to any outside organization(s) who wishes to experience Jewish student life at UCI first-hand. We are confident that their visit to our University, under the current administration, will reveal today�s reality: Jewish students are physically safe and secure on our campus.
With four active Jewish and pro-Israel organizations on campus, Jewish life is thriving more than ever. Over the past four years, the Jewish fraternity, Alpha Epsilon Pi, has grown by over 100% and is now 71 members strong. Hillel�s weekly Shabbat dinners, which in years past struggled to attract a measly twenty students, now reach peaks of over one hundred students.
The reality is that verbal anti-Semitism spurred by controversial student groups unfortunately continues to exist on campus. However, Jewish student life is able to expand and prosper due to the constructive approach taken by Hillel Foundation of Orange County and Jewish Federation, in conjunction with the support of UCI Administration.
Isaac Yerushalmi
President, Anteaters for Israel
Michelle Eshaghian
Co-President, Hillel: Jewish Student Union
Billy Ravel
Co-President, Hillel: Jewish Student Union
Rambod Peykar
President, Alpha Epsilon Pi (Zeta Tau Chapter)
Talia Hassid
President, Epsilon Phi
Now, what is being referred to? The fact that the Muslim Student Union at UC Irvine is strong and has invited many pro-Palestinian speakers to speak on campus. Pro-Israeli students of campus refer to this as “verbal anti-Semitism”-but the fact remains, anti-Zionism is NOT anti-Semitism. But again, these were OUTSIDE influences trying their best to drum up charges of ant-semitism/hate crimes at UC Irvine which just plain didn’t work, not with the Feds and not even with the Jewish students on campus themselves!
My point is that hate crimes are WRONG. The above instance of the store owner refusing service to a Muslim is AGAINST THE LAW. If it were a Jewish customer being treated in this same fashion I would say precisely the same. I would expect any reasonable person to view the clip above and judge it for what it is, discrimination based upon race and religion which is as stated, AGAINST THE LAW, and I also would expect any law-abiding citizen to speak up in ALL cases when witnessing such an occurrence. Our democracy will only work with the full involvement of the citizenry in ALL cases.
March 31st, 2008 at 12:52 am
Thanks for reply Robin, I have not read all your materials, but will as time permits.
Of course we are in absolute agreement about the store owner. I am not dismissing the fact that there is plenty of prejudice to go around, especially since 9/11. I assure you that I would have intervened, as would my children, father, or anyone else in my family. Regardless of who the bigotry was aimed at.
It’s probably my fault for mentioning hate crimes, which was slightly off subject, it should not be a Jewish vs Muslim issue. After 9/11 the synagogue I attended arranged escorts for any Muslim women needed it because of such senseless hatred. My bad.
April 1st, 2008 at 5:36 am
I just read all comments and I found one thing that I disagreed with.
“Moderate Muslims.”
True Muslims are loving and willing to get along with everyone.
Just like true Christians.
Where I disagree with is the radicals of both religions trying to overtake the faith to mold it into their beliefs.
If these radicals are allowed to flourish they will bring down religion as a way to bring world peace.
We need religion! We need faith! We need worldly love! We need mutual trust!
We don’t need radicals to tell us who to hate.
We need everyone to tell us who to love!
As a non-believer this is what I wish for.
I accept all religions.
I accept all faiths.
I accept everyone.
Why can’t everyone else?
I am not going to apologize for my rant because I think I am right.
We all have to work together. Hopefully when Bush leaves office it will be easier.
This site has been my biggest eye opener in the stupidity of radical religious views.
Thank you Haitham.
April 3rd, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Waht is “Zionist propaganda”? I would like to see a video of a Christian in a Muslim store in a Muslim country & how they are treated
April 6th, 2008 at 9:37 am
I’m sure non-Muslims would be treated just fine by Muslim shop keepers, Robert. Zionist vermin on the other hand should be boycotted, not only for crimes against humanity but for promoting and spreading AskheNAZI hatred. To call you disingenuous is an understatement.
April 6th, 2008 at 11:10 am
Dear All
I must admit first that I could not see this complete video, before commenting (because of my slow internet connection) but I have seen more than that in real life, so I hope I can comment on our “real” lives rather than just a handful of videos.
Personally, I believe that the problem lies with the Muslims themselves (and I am a Muslim).We should see the whole picture from everyones angle rather than viewing from one angle only. I can see that Muslims are being mistreated, but so are Christians in several Muslim countries.Is that not true or do we not know about it? The question is what have WE (Muslims) “done” to stop Christians,Jews and others from being oppressed in Muslim countries.Muslims complain about mistreatment but do not even speak against human right abuses in several Muslim countries, e.g. abuse of children as camel jockeys etc.
Don’t Muslims know that according to their belief, they will NOT be forgiven on the Day of Judgement if they have committed human right abuses? So why don’t we AT LEAST speak against those committing serious breaches of human rights in several Muslim countries.
Muslims should be highly educated and extremely well mannered. They should know that
1)The best among the humans is the one who is best for other humans.
2)The one who does not love children and the one who does respect his elders is not one of us (i.e., he is not a Muslim).
3)Muslims should care for others, as they like to be cared for.
Can any Muslim answer me and tell me honestly if there isn’t anything wrong with Muslims themselves? Are we perfect in being good humans?
So Muslims should FIRST care for others and understand why they are doing what they are doing. I am sure that if one is honest to himself/herself and to others, Allah/God is strong enough to save him/her from any trouble anywhere in the world, not just in the USA. I am sure He is really very very strong and CAN do miracles.
April 6th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
Robert Zionist,
So you “would like to see a video of a Christian in a Muslim store in a Muslim country & how they are treated”?
How about hearing from a Christian who was married to and now AMICABLY divorced from a Muslim who lived in the Middle East for five years in the strictest of Muslim countries, Saudi Arabia? How about hearing that despite the incidents that the MSM and people such as yourself like to pick out which have occurred to make it seem as if living as a Westerner/Christian in the Middle East amongst Muslims is a lesson in misery is a far cry from the prevailing truth. How about hearing from a Christian whose sister in law (a Muslim) gave her a BIBLE she had smuggled in because she and the rest of the family honored her Christianity as did all she came in contact with. How about reading a blog of an American journalist who spent years in Jeddah and continues to write about KSA and the Middle East http://13martyrs.blogspot.com/ (and I am only using this country because it is where I lived, NOT because I condone the govt. there or their extreme laws)
Signing your name as Robert “Zionist” says it all. Vilifying Islam and Muslims is done by people in order to twist the truth in order to justify someone’s OWN acts and prejudices. The POLITICAL entity known as Zionism is a RACIST SEPARATIST entity which has stolen land from an indigenous people. But wait, it goes further, you want to ask about a Christian and how they are treated in Muslim countries. Take a look at the separate road system to ILLEGAL settlements on which Palestinians, both Muslim AND Christians must travel, that is if they can get past the roadblocks. Go ahead Robert, say the roads are necessary as is an Apartheid wall separating people. And I will tell you, when Israel was created it was created to SEPARATE, to put those Jews who wished to participate in a place above all others concerning their rights.
So what was that about a Christian in a Muslim store again? There are THREE Abrahamic faiths and each one is born a child of the same creator.
What one does as an adult to discriminate against another is what matters in the book of deeds which is read. It will be the father of all these people who reads that book at the end of the day, and I for one am absolutely positive he is not pleased by the acts of one of his three children against the others.
April 6th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
Dr.N.Ali,
I don’t want to repeat what Robin said in above comment, but, while America is a secularism system, Arab countries are not and they not hide that. America is a democratic country, Arab countries are not, and they don’t hide that. So, if a person lives in America, s/he expect to live and enjoys what the constitution promises. Same thing goes for a person wishing to live in Arabian or Muslim country. If you respect the law, you are safe.
What you are saying is “tit for tat” although you failed to mention how Christians and Jews are mistreated in Arab/Muslim countries! However, if we assume what you said is true, does that justify mistreating Muslims in America? I guess not.
If you don’t follow news in the Arab world, then I don’t blame you for this misleading claim. e.g. ‘children camel jockeys’ was banned in Arab countries that used to have them for at least two years now. And guess what? It was because Muslims and Arabs themselves raised their voices and criticized this (this blog was one of these voices).
Again, I don’t know where you live, what you read and which TV channel you watch, but all of this is happening. Maybe don’t get enough magnitude when compared to other parts of the world, but who controls the media and what type of political system we have in the Arab world, you can’t generalize and blame Muslims.
No body can claim this. Even prophets committed mistakes. This applies on everyone, Muslims and non-Muslims.
I’m sorry, but this is idealistic. Bush is safe! Does this mean that he is free of sins? Can you confirm that the lady in the clip is bad and that’s why God punished here?!
April 7th, 2008 at 3:04 am
Dear Haitham
Thank you very much for a very well structured reply. Now I would like to clarify a bit further.
1)”while America is a secularism system, Arab countries are not and they not hide that. America is a democratic country, Arab countries are not, and they don’t hide that.” Well, are we proud to say that we are not democratic? This is what I am trying to say:Why are we not democratic??Is this not what Islam says?There is no concept of Kingdom in Islam, so why are we not democratic? And, we don’t even hide it!!Is that something to be proud of?
2)Mistreatment of Christians in Muslims countries…
Did I say that since Christians,Jews etc. are mistreated in Muslim countries, Muslims should also be mistreated? What I am saying is there is mistreatment from BOTH sides and I am NOT justifying ANYONE’s mistreatment.Both parties need to see what they are doing is wrong, not just one!This is my point.Now far as mistreatment of Christians is concerned, can I ask you:Are they allowed to practice their religion in Kingdom of Saudi Arabia?Does Islam not say that “there is no compulsion in religion”?I am again NOT saying that there is a perfect Muslim country in the world, but there ARE countries in the world who ARE claiming to be perfect and they ARE representing Muslims in the world.Today, Muslims are hated everywhere NOT because of what they are doing in the USA, but because of what is happening in their home countries.
3)”Camel jockeys.”
Dear Haithum.Is that or was that the only mistreatment of people in some Muslim countries.Yes, that’s true that use of abducted or “purchased” children from Indo Pak subcontinent,to be used as Camel jockeys was banned a few years ago, but why did it happen in the first place?Was it allowed by Islam for the last 14 centuries or was it only banned by it 2 years ago? There can be no compensation for years of torture those children suffered by a ban imposed a couple of years ago.This should not have EVER happened.The reason I used this example was only because it was mentioned in the video, otherwise there are other serious violations of human rights as well.For example:Abuse of domestic workers is another example.
4)Political system in Muslim countries.
Yes, I agree that there are serious problems with political systems in Muslim countries and it IS difficult to raise voices as well, but there are good and bad people in every community.There are good Muslims and bad Muslims as well, who are tarnishing Muslims’ image everywhere in the world.Is that not true that there are several Muslims who have spoiled Muslims’ and especially Arabs’ image in the world? We can’t blame anyone else for that?
5)Perfection:
I am NOT saying that we have to be perfect, but nearest to perfection or ar at least try our best.How about at least trying to be merciful and kind to those around us.That’s not expensive.
7)Bush is safe.
Can I ask you dear Haithum:Have you not heard of prophets in past (since the creation of universe)being abused and even being killed?Are they not safe? As far as I know, safety does NOT just mean safety in the world;what about hereafter? Do you believe that if someone has done something wrong to others,irrespective of what religion he follows, he will be “safe” in life after death? Do you believe only in this world and what it contains? Do you believe that those who tortured prophets to death in past are “safe” and had they done anything wrong that they were tortured to death (in your words,”punished by God”).Did Meccans not create troubles for prophet of Islam?Do you believe it was “punishment from God”?;if something bad happens to one,it is NOT always punishment from God!!
Summary:My main point is that instead of pointing out what others are doing Muslims should 1)NOT cross their limits, 2)NOT do wrong to others just because others did wrong to them, 3)remain calm and just, 4)Educate themselves and be polite to others (manners are extremely important).
If there is anything I have not clarified, pleased do not hesitate to point out again.
April 7th, 2008 at 5:32 am
Haitham - I think you hit the nail on the head, the Arab countries are not democracies and they don’t hide it.
There would probably be many injustices by individuals in just about any society we could think of, and one does not excuse the other. For the most part I’ve experienced warmth from most people in Islamic countries (I’m American, Jewish), but I’ve also experienced prejudice.
I am thankful that in America the press can run such an eye-opening experiment and it can be played in public.
I hope the people that would do nothing, or agree with this type of behavior can see this and learn right from wrong.
April 7th, 2008 at 5:33 am
Robert Zionist, DrM - This is obviously not a good place for an open debate on Zionism.
April 7th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Dr.N.Ali,
We are in agreement, in general.
In short, everyone wants democracy, but not the American style (best example is Iraq). OTOH, you can blame Islam amd Muslims for what non-Muslims does, such as Bin Laden, simply because Islam don’t promote violence. Wrong practices in the name of religion is everywhere, not only in Muslim world, but all other religious nations.
As for Saudi example, yes, I agree with you that they don’t allow non-Muslims to practice their religion, but guess what, this is a law in Saudi Arabia, so if you want to live there, you have to respect their laws. On the other hand, Christians practice their religion in all Arab and Muslim world, so generalizing is again misleading.
Summery, yes we protest wrong practice by people call themselves Muslims, in different magnitude, as much the system allows. On the other hand, we expect the democratic countries to live by the standards they established.
April 7th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
Dear Haithum
If you look into the world history and try to find how Satan has been trying to deviate humans from the right path, you will find that nothing has changed for the last thousands of years.
Just to give you one example:Every prophet spoke against and criticised the system he was born in.Every prophet was persecuted by the system he lived in, whether in a Kingdom like that of Pharoah’s, or like a tribal system like Meccans.Every system tried to expel the prophets out and every one had to migrate to save himself.
There is no law except the law made by God, because human brain is not capable of organising a perfect system that he can live in, so it is bound to be full of technical errors and will not run well, no matter how well planned it may have been. Laws made by God are based on “negative and positive feedback mechanisms” (which can be studied, for example at cellular or molecular level in medical textbooks etc); Can you show me any single law made by man which follows the same principle as “natural” laws follow; this may be difficult for anyone to understand without scientific knowledge, so I will go into further detail, but the only thing I would say that while you are living in the world follow God’s laws.If you can leave the universe then make your own laws and follow them, otherwise follow what God says and noone else.
I would appreciate if further queries are put forward to me.
April 8th, 2008 at 12:06 am
Bloody hell!
April 8th, 2008 at 10:44 am
Hey Haitham,
Whoa, crazy clip. Just wanted to let you know that in Fremont, CA (the city with the largest Muslim population per person) this stuff does not go on. I guess hate is wherever you go, but in most places in the US this stuff doesn’t stand. Sure there are racists in the US and sure people say racist things but its their right to be like that. All I know is that I also have the right to speak up against the speech. God, I love the marketplace of ideas. Let the Nazis, bigots, fascists, racists, sexists and homophobes rant, because I can rant right back. God bless our fucked up little country, I wouldn’t want to live no where else.
Peace
April 8th, 2008 at 10:47 am
Oh by the way, her rights weren’t violated in the video. It’s free speech in its nasty best. A couple cool cases to explain this are as follows,
R.A.V. v. St. Paul
Bradenburg v. Ohio
Peace
April 8th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
http://www.articlesisland.com/legal/legal-information/avoiding-discrimination-lawsuits.html
If someone comes in to buy something and is belligerent and unruly, you have the right to ask him or her to leave but on the other hand, you cannot refuse to sell to someone because of his or her race, religion or national origin. You can not put a sign in your window that says you refuse to serve certain groups of people. If you own a bar, you can refuse to serve people who are already intoxicated but you can not refuse to serve Italians for example. On the same score, you can not remove blacks that become unruly while letting whites stay no matter how boisterous they become. The rules you make must pertain to everyone or you open yourself up to a lawsuit.
On the other hand, that does not mean you can not open a hair salon that is predominantly for black women as long as you do not refuse service to other groups who may wish to use that shop. After all, some women from other ethnic groups may wish to use the shop just for a hair cut or style without needing the special treatments that the texture of a black womans hair needs. Its important to understand all of the issues surrounding potential discrimination lawsuits in order to avoid them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_Discrimination_Act_1975
Racial Discrimination Act of 1975:
Racial discrimination occurs under the Act when someone is treated less fairly than someone else in a similar situation because of their race, colour, descent or national or ethnic origin. Racial discrimination can also occur when a policy or rule appears to treat everyone in the same way but actually has an unfair effect on more people of a particular race, colour, descent or national or ethnic origin than others.
It is against the law to discriminate in areas such as:
* Employment (section 15) - eg when seeking employment, training, promotion, equal pay or conditions of employment;
* Land, housing or accommodation (section 12) - eg when buying a house or when renting;
* Provision of goods and services (section 13) - eg when buying something, applying for credit, using banks, seeking assistance from government departments, lawyers, doctors and hospitals, or attending restaurants, pubs, entertainment venues;
* Access to places and facilities for use by the public (section 11) - eg when trying to use parks, libraries, government offices, hotels, places of worship, entertainment centres, hire cars;
* Advertising (section 16) - eg advertising for a job stating that people from a certain ethnic group cannot apply;
* Joining a trade union (section 14).
The Act also prohibits offensive behaviour based on racial hatred (racial vilification) (section 18C)
TITLE II–INJUNCTIVE RELIEF AGAINST DISCRIMINATION IN PLACES OF PUBLIC ACCOMMODATION (Civil Rights Act 1964)
SEC. 201. (a) All persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, and privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, as defined in this section, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin.
(b) Each of the following establishments which serves the public is a place of public accommodation within the meaning of this title if its operations affect commerce, or if discrimination or segregation by it is supported by State action:
(1) any inn, hotel, motel, or other establishment which provides lodging to transient guests, other than an establishment located within a building which contains not more than five rooms for rent or hire and which is actually occupied by the proprietor of such establishment as his residence;
(2) any restaurant, cafeteria, lunchroom, lunch counter, soda fountain, or other facility principally engaged in selling food for consumption on the premises, including, but not limited to, any such facility located on the
premises of any retail establishment; or any gasoline station;
(3) any motion picture house, theater, concert hall, sports arena, stadium or other place of exhibition or entertainment; and
(4) any establishment (A)(i) which is physically located within the premises of any establishment otherwise covered by this subsection, or (ii) within the premises of which is physically located any such covered establishment, and (B) which holds itself out as serving patrons of such covered establishment.
http://www.dotcr.ost.dot.gov/Documents/YCR/CIVILR64.HTM
April 8th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
Yeah, but that is the actor, not an actual store owner. So you see no law was broken. Doh! And the person siding with the store owner are not breaking any laws by siding with him, remeber I may not like your opinion but I will die for your right to say it.
Peace
April 9th, 2008 at 5:12 am
So Sean,it’s Candid Camera time, if you were there, (and remember,neither the thumbs up man or anyone else KNEW it wasn’t real) which is it, you would die for the right of the bigots (I am referring to the one who gave the thumbs up and the worker) to say what he did and yourself stand idly by, or would you inform him, the store owner, and those standing by that the woman’s civil rights were being violated? (as I believe you are an attorney-and even if I am incorrect on that I do assume you know our law.)
Just one fact here. I live in California, which enacted some of the earliest and strongest civil rights laws. The first and most revolutionary for it’s time, the Unruh Act (1959) which predated the federal Civil Rights Act. Here are sections 51 and 52 (those parts pertaining to the above instance)
Unruh Civil Rights Act (California Civil Code Section 51)
The Unruh Civil Rights Act provides protection from discrimination by all
business establishments in California, including housing and public
accommodations, because of age, ancestry, color, disability, national origin,
race, religion, sex and sexual orientation.
http://www.disabilityaccessinfo.ca.gov/lawsregs.htm#unruh_rights_act
Unruh Civil Rights Act (California Civil Code 52-in part)
(a) Whoever denies, aids or INCITES a denial, or makes any discrimination or
distinction contrary to Section 51, 51.5, or 51.6, is liable for each and every
offense for the actual damages, and any amount that may be determined by a jury,
or a court sitting without a jury, up to a maximum of three times the amount of
actual damage but in no case less than four thousand dollars ($4,000), and any
attorney’s fees that may be determined by the court in addition thereto,
suffered by any person denied the rights provided in Section 51, 51.5, or 51.6.
(b) Whoever denies the right provided by Section 51.7 or 51.9, or aids, INCITES,
or conspires in that denial, is liable for each and every offense for the actual
damages suffered by any person denied that right and, in addition, the
following:
(1) An amount to be determined by a jury, or a court sitting without a jury, for
exemplary damages.
(2) A civil penalty of twenty-five thousand dollars ($25,000) to be awarded to
the person denied the right provided by Section 51.7 in any action brought by
the person denied the right, or by the Attorney General, a district attorney, or
a city attorney. An action for that penalty brought pursuant to Section 51.7
shall be commenced within three years of the alleged practice.
(3) Attorney’s fees as may be determined by the court.
(c) Whenever there is reasonable cause to believe that any person or group of
persons is engaged in conduct of resistance to the full enjoyment of any of the
rights described in this section, and that conduct is of that nature and is
intended to deny the full exercise of those rights, the Attorney General, any
district attorney or city attorney, or any person aggrieved by the conduct may
bring a civil action in the appropriate court by filing with it a complaint. The
complaint shall contain the following:
http://law.onecle.com/california/civil/52.html
The above info was cited to me by my dear friend Pat Barry who successfully fought the first Supreme Court workplace sexual harassment case and won. http://www.enotes.com/supreme-court-drama/meritor-savings-bank-v-vinson
She has seen the above tape, and stated that IF it were a real case, she would civily sue the bakery worker on behalf of the victim as well as the thumbs up man under the Unruh Act.
But that isn’t even the point here, our country HAS laws banning discrimination. And SUPPOSEDLY we have morals which stand for justice or all regardless of race of religion. We are also SUPPOSEDLY (according to many, but not myself) a CHRISTIAN nation. For someone to offer up the case of a cross-burner who got off (R.A.V. v. St. Paul) and another KKK member who got off (Bradenburg v. Ohio) as “cool” is really beyond the scope of my comprehension.
April 9th, 2008 at 7:51 am
Clarification:
Dear Haithum
I just need to clarify something I have said earlier.When I say,”…you are living in the world….” I do NOT mean specifically “you”;it may actually sound funny but actually I mean “we”(all) as we are all in the same boat.What I mean is humans should abide by the laws of nature and should not try to disturb the “equilibrium”(”Meezaan”,as some would call it), for simple reasons that we (humans) do not have full understanding of how interfering with divine laws can affect us and the rest of the universe.
But again, I do apologise for creating the misunderstanding.
I hope that clarifies everything, but if it doesn’t please do not hesitate to contact me.
Kind Regards
April 9th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
How Muslims Are Treated In USA? (2nd round)
http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2008/04/09/how-muslims-are-treated-in-usa-2/
April 9th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Robin,
Hey you are correct that I am an attorney so good guess. What I would do, and I have been confronted with similar cases involving black and latino friends and clients, I would probably speak up for the women. Express my view and then report the buisness to the labor comission, better buisness bureau and the district attorney. I would also take the case, if the woman wanted me too, since I do civil litigation at the moment (trying to become a public defender) and take the bastard through the ringer. About the folks who cheered on the fella, I would express my opinion, but I still wouldn’t want to silence them. I always believe more speech is better then less, my opinion personally.
Also, as a card carrying member of the ACLU, I do believe RAV and Bradenburg are not only cool but important cases. They allow for individuals to say things that are unpopular and not be prosecuted. Read the ordinance in RAV, it also mentions anti-Semetic language. How vague is that. Is what we say on this site criticizing Israel and Zionist thought anti-Semetic? Could be in some judges and juries eyes. So, since our opinions are unpopular in a certain county in a certain state, we could be prosecuted for that if the defendant’s conviction was upheld then our rights may be in jeporady. A while ago it was unpopular to be against the war in Iraq, could we be persecuted for incitement if we held a rally stating that we must stop the War at any cost, even through civil disobidence? Yes we could if the Supreme Court didn’t overturn the defendant’s conviction in Bradenburg. So yeah, I think those cases are cool and look beyond the facts of a case to the legal reasoning sometimes. If we do not defend the rights of the despicable, how long till the righteous lose those rights too.
Peace
April 9th, 2008 at 10:46 pm
Thank you for that insight Sean. I do understand the legal reasoning behind upholding the rights of the despicable in order to maintain the rights of all, truly I do. But on a moral basis, as well as reading the rulings, I personally find them tainted by the ideology of the majority opinion writers. That’s just an opinion, I am not an attorney, just someone who follows the Supreme Court “personalities”.
One thing that I personally think is VERY important in this case is precisely what you stated yourself above, what you would do in this case. As an ordinary citizen I would do the same, make the reports to the appropriate authorities. One thing I would DEFINITELY do even as an ordinary citizen, is not what the above people did who defended her. When arguing with a bigoted person refusing service based on race, religion or other reasons, you will get NO WHERE arguing the morality of such an issue. One must remember, the (staged) culprit in this bakery incident BELIEVED he could get away with this. What truly shocks me about all the defenders of her is that not one of them brought the fact up that the law was being broken. Aren’t Americans after all these years, our yearly celebrations of MLK, AWARE of what he and others won with their long hard struggle? Don’t people know that separate water fountains and lunch counters and refusal of services is not allowed for Arabs/Muslims either?
The law IS on the victims side. It is beyond wonderful to stand up for someone who is being racially attacked, but it is HIGH TIME that the citizens of this country know their own AND other’s civil rights. If anyone was driving by seeing a woman raped, HOPEFULLY they would call the police, make a RUCKUS and do something themselves if safe to do so to intervene. When one witnesses civil rights violations it is no less important to get involved. So personally, if I were there, I would have spoken up immediately and cited the law. Since I live in California, I would have NO problem citing CA Civil Code 52 which prohibits the incitement of discrimination in public accomodations as was the case of the thumbs up guy (BTW, several European countries have similar laws) I would take my cell phone, call the police, and the local district attorney’s office, and all other entities which might have authority.
And last on the list of entities to call,the most important to get involved, I would call the local office of CAIR (who is included in the follow up post to this one, How Are Muslims Treated in the US Part 2.) CAIR provides attorneys in such situations. http://www.cair.com/
There ARE civil rights laws to protect EVERYONE in America, be aware of them and USE THEM in your fight for your own rights AND others.
April 16th, 2008 at 3:18 am
I came across this site by pure accident. I came home searching for a site were I could vent. I am Muslim, Alhamdullilah. I have been a Muslim for few years. I am a citizen by naturalization, but also a very outspoken women. Today I went into Kohl’s Department store to pick up a few items, and when I got to the cashier I put my items on the counter. I was asked if I was going to use my Kohl’s card and my reply was yes. I had a 30% discount coupon that was sent to me by Kohl’s. When I took out my Kohl’s credit card ( which has my signature) to pay my bill I was asked for my ID. I asked the cashier if this was a new thing that the store is doing and she said yes. I knew she was lying but I initially ignored her yes respnse and went ahead and showed her my ID. When I got outside to my car I realized what had just happened so I went back into the store and tried to see if anyone else was paying with their Kohl’s card and had to present an ID. Well no one in the line I stood had an ID so I turned to this older white looking lady and asked her if I was suppose to buy something in the store what all would she need if I had a Kohl’s card. She asked me if I had a Kohl’s card and I said yes. She explained to me if the card is signed she does not need an ID but if it not signed she would need an ID. I showed her my card and she said she would not need an ID if I would buy anything. I explained to her what had happened and she was that was not right. When I asked for the supervisor she made all kind of excuses for the girl and told me she could go and talk to her. She said this was a safety thing, but I explained it was discrimination. It becomes a safety thing when u do it for everyone but if you single out people then it is discrimination. I have had this happened 2 other times in this store. The first time I was wearing full hijab. The two times after that i had my head tie regular. The first time it happened I called the manager to the store and she told me that they are not suppose to check IDs unless the card is not signed. The truth is, I had just left jumuaah and went to the store. Now she said she would talk to her staff about that. Apparently she did not because, this keeps happening and yes all these cashiers have been white. Now maybe this store just have a bunch of anti-muslim staffs but I have called their main office and file a complaint.
As for how non muslims are treated in predominantly Muslim countries, I myself was disturbed that they are being treated so well especially with what is going on for Muslims in the Western world. I landed in Kuwait on Dec 26,2007 and I was shock to see how the malls had so many Christians taking picture and being treated so well. I saw Muslims admiring Christians celebrating their holiday. Well, if only we were treated with that much respect that would be very helpful. Dr. Ali, I disagree with your comments about how non muslims are treated in Muslim lands. Remember when the slaves came to America they were force to change their religion. They had to hide to pray. Muslims did not bring this on themselves. The oppressors have the upper hand just like the dominant group as the upper hand. The behavior of the oppressed often comes from the treatment endured from the oppressor. I am one of the most calm people, but my actions and the way I respond to different situation comes from how I am treated by the dominant group. It is time we stand up against injustice and unfair treatment and quit blaming the oppressed.
April 17th, 2008 at 1:58 am
Where I get angry is when fanatics from Christians, Islamics and Atheists tell us who to hate.
We need another Ghandi to tell us who to love.
We have enough hate in this world. We need more love and understanding in this world to get together.
Quoting from your faiths or lack of doesn’t help anyone.
Living your beliefs in the love and understanding of others helps the most.
I did a service call at a “black” persons house the other day. (I hate the term black.)He asked me why I treated him so nicely because where we live he is supposed to be a rarity.
I put my arm next to him and I said “you have a better tan than I do”.
Despite his colour difference, there is no difference.
He is a Muslim. Despite our different views on religion, he is no different than me.
The bottom line: We were equal. He makes parts for cars. I drive cars that uses parts from the company he works for. I fix furnaces. His furnace was broken. I fixed it.
Why do we have to constantly bring colour, gender, religion, and every other stupid label into these discussions when we are all equal?
Sorry for my rant, Haitham but I think that I am right.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:31 pm
“18Robert Zionist Says:
April 3rd, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Waht is “Zionist propaganda”? I would like to see a video of a Christian in a Muslim store in a Muslim country & how they are treated”
Well Robert, my experiences in Syria, Lebanon, Egypt and other Muslim countries were nothing but positive. I was treated with respect and dignity.